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+--- Thread: congratulation to all pakistanis (/thread-congratulation-to-all-pakistanis)
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- kamranACA - 03-25-2009
Dear Amir,
When I said I don't suspect, it was about 200 CIA officials, which we know are here in abundance and more specifically this is the issue on which you have not so far conflicted on your own words. I however did not agree about the specific number that has allegedly been deputed to control or spoil the media and only raised two points on that issue. How you were so confirmed about this specific number i.e. 200? I mean to say, why it could not be 199 or 201 or some other figure? Did you carry out some physical counting? My second point was, why such news (attack on media) always reach to you first of all and then don't get proved?
Your answers to my questions could not establish anything except for providing a hilarious info that the man who alleges the "Geo" as CIA agent believes in "Jang" so firmly ignoring that the owners of the both are same. I did agree with the presence of CIA officials be it 200 or whatever but I could not agree on second allegation specifically focusing "Geo", merely based upon something written in "Jang".
Now, the issue of Musharraf is altogether different. You had been saying what not and what not about him. I need not to go into details. Then all of a sudden he became so noble and truthful in your eyes. I personally don't find it a big issue as far as you are concerned. I know you keep on changing your opinion since you get influenced by whatever you read through whatever sources. Your opposition also carried similar attributes and now your favor does not portray anything different. So, I am not in any doubts or whim about the approach you have. However, this could be so suspicious for the others.
Here the fellow Nakaiun threw a big laughter that was too critical. Keeping in view his-self or others who may not know your approach I said changing of your views was suspicious and the laughter of Nakaiun was not unjustified.
As you normally do, you have mixed up two un-identical situations.
OMG how much effort has to be done every time to make you understand the things.
"Dil pay mat lena Bhaai yeh tu chalta he rehta hai"!!!
Regards,
KAMRAN.
- nakaiun - 03-25-2009
mr musharraf is the savior of the nation is a big joke
[D][D]
- israrhere - 04-04-2009
@Amir....Amir bhai what has happend to u yar.............
Musharraf ko kia se kia bana rahe ho
- Muhammad Amir - 04-06-2009
@israrhere I am not supporting each and every step taken by Musharraf, but at least, he was much better than this CIA planted Bhutto-Zardari monarchy. Zardari government is planted by America to achieve its strategic objectives in this part of the world. The first step taken by this CIA planted government is to put ISI under Interior ministry, run by notorious former FIA director Rehman Malik whose loyalty has always been questionable in the circles of Pakistani intelligentsia. Drone attacks are more frequent than ever in this Zardari government. Food crisis, load shedding and suicide attacks are more frequent than ever. Foreign reserves have been decreased dramatically. Zardari granted the highest civilian awards to two USA and British pigs in consideration of the genocide in tribal belt of Pakistan by their hellfire predators and there are other lots of things that compelled me to support Mr. Musharraf.
Very few of us know about what exactly happened to Musharraf. American CIA invested heavily on lawyers' movement to destabilize Pakistan. Americans want to topple Musharraf because Musharraf was not cooperating with Washington. This is not new in our history that some stupid people of Pakistan played unwittingly in the hands of our enemies. We have Mir Jafers and Mir Sadiqs in the form of politicians and Americans know how to use these ******* politicians against Pakistan.
- kamranACA - 04-06-2009
No body is supporting Zaradri here, although some one may like to do so. However, Musharraf was a dictator who got no right to rule the country for 8-9 years. He was unwanted, and remained unwanted for his whole tenure. I don't go at length to discuss what he did for USA and why he was forced to leave his uniform and government. Every one can understand better.
However, as per my understanding the hidden hands simply don't want this country to settle down. I mean through whatever means they use, they keep the things going. For removing Musharraf or his uniform, they did not need to use lawyers' movement or any other thing. They simply use various things happening around spontaneously to get their benefits and objectives either by favoring it or by opposing it through their sources. The opposition which lawyers' movement faced, made the results what they wanted. Musharraf, himself, provided them chance to use this incident in their favor. He could have settle down the matter with lawyers but he did not.
We have been seeing utilization of everything in their favor through such methodology. Mukhtara Mai's gang rape is one such example. During the blackout/power failure at USA, thousands of women were raped by Americans. No body is crying on that. But a number of human right activists and NGOs projected the Mukhtara Mai issue in the way they are used to do. I am not trying to justify anything wrong happening here. Instead the purpose is to explain how others use our own acts in their favor.
They never brought any lawyers' movement to crash the plane of Zia-ul-Haq, dissolve the government of BB for 2 times and Nawaz for 2 times and other things historically moved to achieve their objectives. They know how to use this dumb nation and we never understand what is going to happen here.
The recent video tape incident is one of such example. No body knows from where this tape came, to which area it relates, who the persons were beating the girl, who was that girl, why they were beating etc. I mean everything is based upon un-tested assumptions and nothing is confirmed through any evidence. It's a fact that there could be no state within a state and every one who is doing so should invariably be punished. Still, one must confirm the things before making statements. We saw our big leaders were criticizing it without applying any qualification as to the validity of this tape. A large number of people did not even hesitate to make statement against Islamic punishments. I mean if anything has been done in Pakistan like what we saw in the video is ridiculous, but one should make statements in a clear manner and place on record that it got no confirmation so far through any independent source. Instead we have been seeing rallies and speeches and statements. This shows how dumb we are. Eventually any hidden hand can use this situation in his favor. When it will happen we will be trying to find out who sent such video, where it pertained to and what was motive behind on-airing it. We always react in same way. There is no solution.
As far as Zardari Govt is concerned, it has been elected by the people. If it is wrong, it means we all are wrong. Since we at large know it is wrong and has not done anything except for creating political fights, unrest, anarchy, financial crunch, injustice, and has taken all the measures to ensure that it must lead to destruction of Pakistan and even the ruling party itself then we all are responsible for it even if we have not voted for them. This is a fact. Whatever Musharraf did was his sole act, but whatever Zardari is doing is the act of the nation. If it is ridiculous (which we know it is) we all have done something ridiculous. This is more specifically correct in this example because we all out-rightly knew what this man "Zardari" had been doing in past.
I bet, regardless of whatever extent he goes, whatever he will do, and whatever people will have to bear, even then we will be seeing his face in every next election either in government or as a strong opposition. We had never learnt from our past and we will never be learning from our present. This is the way our nation has been behaving since ages.
I just recall the poem of Jalib sung by RED. "Yeh jo dass crore hainâ¦.jahal ka nichore hain". Jalib was a man of great wisdom. We don't give an ear to our critics. We never want to jog our interiors.
Regards,
KAMRAN.
- nakaiun - 04-06-2009
we allow these generals 9 to 10 years to rule and does not allow elected government for 5 years we should make a firm decision that we want parliamentary form of government as imran khan says that if any dictator in the disguise of angel come to rule we should not accept it
this is basic thing we r not at able to decide in 60 years what type of government we want it is always politicans who make this country stronger atmoic bomb tested and start by politician 90000 soldiers r freed from India again by politician we fought three battles in dictatorship period bangladesh cameinto being in dictatorship this is politician who made and started good relation wid china and Russia steelmill has been develpoed by the help of Russia
these taliban made by generals and now they r killing hundred of people
we have always good relation wid america in dictatorship period and as they follow there policy they give us aid one should understand what is right and wrong
- kamranACA - 04-07-2009
Nakaiun,
If some political leader is criticized, it does not by any means, give any support or right to any general to come into government. There is no other statement on this issue.
However, political set-ups have the basic concept of getting critciism and opposition in everything they do. They have to bear it with open mind. There is also no question on it. The democratic set up which wants 5 open years without any objection, criticism, hurdle and problem is not democratic at all. If this is true then what is the concept of opposition at all?
A deemed democratic setup without bearing criticism or the setup which bans any agitation, expression and opposition is nothing but a civil martial law or disguised martial law. Mind it, where we had been opposing army rule we had also not been wishing a civil martial law in our country. One of its example is governer rule attempt in Punjab. The other is the continuous army operation in northern areas without any attempt of settling down the issues. This is the dirtiest picture of a democratic set-up. I am not here to praise or support any body. I am just pointing out something odd that is against the basic concept of democracy.
Just let me know in which democratic set up USA use to apply drone attacks without any objection from the government, which in fact is a government by the people, and for the people? There are a number of fronts where people were expecting better from democratic setup in comparison to Martial Law but nothing has been improved in almost one year. There is no point for asking more and more time or asking for raising no question for complete 5 years. I mean what it actually means that give them 5 years? What it means? They are our peoples' elected persons and are answerable for whatever they do. They have there all the 5 years, no body is expected to snatch their seats, but they have to be acountable. This is the only beauty of the democracy.
If we have to give every one 5 years (this time one party, next time other, then other, then army etc) without raising questions and asking for corrective measures then how this would be called democracy at all? How the peoples issues will be resolved.
Therefore, the purpose of mentioning pitfall of current rulers is very clear and focussed. We all know what the anamolies they have. If someone don't want to say something its his right. But the people who like raising voice should not be criticised. We need democracy and not a disguised civil martial law. This is the thing which these rulers have been made to feel by the masses on the issue of CJ. This is democracy. All the obstacles and negative efforts were nothing but a symptom of martial law. I again mention we need democracy. It does not mean we need a particular party or a particular person.
Since we elect these persons by our votes, whenever they will do wrong, it means our selection had been wrong. So, eventualy we did wrong and only we have to make it good one day. That was the purpose of my post. I feel we unfortunately don't learn any thing from previous experiences. We will be doing same in upcoming days.
Regards,
KAMRAN.
- nakaiun - 04-07-2009
i agree wid u kamran bahi i said that they should give time of 5 years but also there should check and balance system for which strong judiciary and media needed people should realize if government is not accepting their demands or not on the right track then they should do long march as on 16
- awaisaftab - 04-07-2009
I congratulate all Pakistanis on the moment of restoration of CJ.
Although the performance of superior courts of Pakistan is not good or admirable but some Judges of Pakistan's superior courts has been showing dignity and greatness.
When the Dhaka fall occurred in 1971, a judicial commission was formed, headed by Honourable Justice Hammudur Rehman, he freely examined all the facts related to this miserable incident and gave his report, known as Hammudur Rehman Report, in his report he recommended the open trial of 3 general namely General Yahaya Khan, General Takka Khan and General Mittha Khan, I think 3 of them some of them were in job generals.
At the time when General Zia take over the rule then CJ also resigned from his services.
When Musharaf did take over many judges of superior courts,including then CJ Justice Saeed uz Zaman Siddiqi and Justice Wajihud din , denied to take oath under PCO.
Latter on Justice Tariq Mehmood, Judge of Baluchistan High Court, resigned from services on the issue illegal referendum of Musharaf in, 2002.
These were many honourable Judges of Pakistan, who did not compromise on the supremacy of constitution and rule of law.
Although Justice Iftikhar Muhammad Chaudary taken oath under PCO but he has accepted his mistake and I think he has well compensated his mistake by saying No to many generals.
Now Chief Justice has become a symbol of independent Judiciary.
General Retired Abdul Qaum who were the chairman of Steel Mills when the plan of its privatization were being prepared has said that the âShare Purchas Agreement â of sale of Steel Mill was faulty. The Legal Advisors of the Mill also rejected this agreement declaring it as melafidy and unfair.
I think some persons donât know about the designation of CJ and the material benefits and protocols associated with this post. Itâs not a post of grade 21 or 22. CJ enjoys many protocols and benefits even after retirement. His security is provided under blue book. But Iftikhar Muhammad Chaudary sacrificed these endless benefits on the interest of Pakistan and for independent judiciary.
The role of citizens of Karachi had been remained very effected till eighties but some of power group afraid of popularity of Jamat-e- Islami in Karachi so the ethnic issue of Muhajirs (Urdu Speakings) raised and a political organization MQM (indeed a terrorist group) were formed. The local government of Karachi led by Jamat-e- Islami was abolished and a open ground is provided to MQM. After the formation of MQM thousands of innocent Punjabis and Pathans were cruelly murdered on the roads of Karachi. After these incidents the role of people of Karachi had become limited to the local politics. The sense of being exploited by the Punjab is common in citizens of Karachi. Although the MQM was a popular party in Karachi some year ago but now it win elections on the power of GUN. Now only some people of Karachi support MQM but their thinking is badly affected by the ideas of MQM. They always think about the local interest of Karachi.
Regards,
Awais Aftab