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+--- Thread: Canadian Immigration and ACCA, CIMA, CFA or CMA (/thread-canadian-immigration-and-acca-cima-cfa-or-cma)
- Toronto_Boy - 10-24-2010
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, san" id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by awaisaftab</i>
<br />One more question how much salary a person can earn in U.K and Canada who posses both CIMA and ICMAP certifications plus good experience in accounts and finance. Please describe range of slary.
Best Regards,
Awais
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I have no idea about UK's job market. As far as Canada is concerned both ICMAP and CIMA are foreign qualifications. However, employers have more trust on CIMA because of country it belongs to i.e. UK.
In Canada, first hurdle for immigrants is to get a relevant job based on their foreign qualifications/ experience. Usually they start from entry level or intermediate level of jobs. After that they try to get Canadian qualifications to excel in profession.
Salaries of immigrants specially in initial years depend upon many factors among which communication skills, presentation skills, personal appearance etc. are very important.
Initially salaries may start from $14 or $15 per hour to $50K or $55K annually. Please note that this is a very lose range.
The most important point is, people who do efforts get into the job market and eventually get their reasonable share. Moreover, whole system helps low income families in a way that they also maintain a very reasonable standard of living with always available opportunities to grow. So, salary range might be one indicator but not the only one.
I hope it helps.
Regards
- Toronto_Boy - 10-24-2010
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, san" id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by awaisaftab</i>
<br />Dear Toronto Boy and others,
I also want to know about G1 - CPGA, M1 - CMGA and T4 - part B papers.
Has the CIMA revised the syllabus. Kia 2005 ka syllabus applicable nhn raha ?? kia syllabus revision IFAC ke requirements pe huyee hai ager ye IFAC ke requirement pe huwa hai to Kia ICMAP ko bhee syllabus revise kerna parega???
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Very specific questions. Sorry, I don't know the answers.
- Nevermore - 10-24-2010
Hi Toronto Boy,
I must first appreciate your efforts for enlightening students about career paths and scholarships abroad.
Now my problem)
I am doing CA and presently studying in Module E.. My family had plans to shift to Canada in a year or two..
I did a bit of research myself through this forum and googling and found out that CICA from Canada does not recognise CA from ICAP.
One route may be to go for ICAEW and then apply for CICA..
Are there any other feasible routes available?
Are there other better degrees available excluding CICA which maybe conveniently combined with CA?
Moreover, my father is currently residing in USA, so, if no there are no suitable options there at Canada, second choice would be USA.. Since, there are also very few exemptions available for CA from ICAP to do CPA in USA, similar questions/problems arise.
I have done bachelors and O&A-levels too if that would be of any help to you..
Waiting for your reply )
- Toronto_Boy - 10-24-2010
Hi Nevermore
If you can go legally to USA after some time of landing here in Canada, then I would say that CPA should be your prime target. You may start searching States' requirements of your preference and can complete deficiency of required university courses in Pakistan besides Module E or F, if possible.
For CICA, once you are here you may apply directly in training firms. If you secure a position then you may complete remaining courses and requirements of CICA.
If you don't get a position directly in CICA training firm, then you may go for a related degree in any Canadian university. After that apply again in CICA firm.
Dear, please feel no offence, but if I would be in your shoes with much certainty to move to Canada, I would do ACCA in Pakistan with which I could get CGA's membership. After landing here, I would try in CICA firm as CGA. If I secure a position then I would complete remaining requirements of CICA (I think only final exam) which are less with CGA as compared to goining directly. If I could not secure a position in CICA firm even then I would have at-least one Canadian certification i.e. CGA (based on my studies in Pakistan). Same time I would start studies for CPA.
Please see http//www.icao.on.ca/Admissions/CGAsCMAs/1010page1355.aspx
Choices are always yours.
Regards
- yasir_live - 10-24-2010
Toronto boy.
Thanks dear for your efforts in providing me concern link.
Regards.
- fidarsi - 10-24-2010
Thanks Toronto boy
By seeing the threads of your posts of past years, I am sure, you are not a boy. )
Thanks buddy
I will inshaAllah let you know what I plan
Best Regards
Taimoor
- yasir_live - 10-24-2010
)
- Toronto_Boy - 10-25-2010
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, san" id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by fidarsi</i>
<br />Thanks Toronto boy
By seeing the threads of your posts of past years, I am sure, you are not a boy.. )
Thanks buddy
I will inshaAllah let you know what I plan
Best Regards
Taimoor
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No, I am not...[)]
You are always welcome...
- yasir_live - 10-26-2010
Toronto boy.
I think U better change you user name now. I witness, one of forum member has done so! Aap ko Sirf Admin ko ek mail likhni paray gi k mera user-name change kar dain....Larkion k ajeeb ajeeb say mail atay hain ) And hopefully admin will change your name in return.
Regards.
- Savak - 02-02-2011
Btw Toronto boy what are the work hours like in these Canadian CA firms like KPMG, Delloite, PWC, Ernst and Young etc? I have actually heard they are pretty tough and some firm's literally make you work for 90 hrs a week.
- gimvie - 02-07-2011
Dear Toronto boy
i am currently working(Articles) with KPMG Pakistan for over a year, I have given last 1 paper of ACCA and result awaiting and also OBU Bsc result awaiting.
I want to come canada and its main reason to get immigration. Can u guide me that either i have to come on student visa or apply for immigration from Pakistan.
If student visa then in which couse or university i have to get enrolled?
Regards.
- versatile_boy - 03-01-2011
hi Toronto boy
i m an ACCA student Completed 12/14 papers and also done CAT.
i passed all my papers in one attempt except for f8, now i have a very difficulty in passing my remaining 2 papers like this was my 2nd attempt and faild again by 47 marks , i think ACCA market in Pakistan is shrinking thtswhy thy are not passing more students.I am very worried about this.this is very unfair my ACCA.
Well my cousin who lives in Toronto(Canada) is asking me to come here and to complete my studies .
my plan is to just complete my ACCA over there and then do CGA (I dont have any experience )
so my question is can i get articleship in Canada on the basis of ACCA?
or if i will go for CICA after completing ACCA , SO whts their requirement? i searched alote about schools and colegs in Toronto that offer cica but unable to get satisfactory searches ,also i came to know that before joining CICA i need to do some practical work in some firm? please help me out as time is running very fast
thanx
- hashimrasool - 04-05-2011
Whats this bull ****?? Why canada has excluded Accountants from the list?? and for how long will they remain outside that list??
- hemani - 04-14-2011
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, san" id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Toronto_Boy</i>
<br />Dear Students and Contributors
In my above post, I have clearly mentioned that I don't mean to go in CA vs. ACCA debate. There is no doubt that Pakistani CA and CMA are very well respected in Pakistan. In my view it is totally unnecessary as its up-to one's decision what he/she wants to do in life, what stream one selects, and where he/she wants to see himself/herself in 5, 10, 15, and 20 years time frame. I have also mentioned that neither I am ACCA nor studying for it. I did not only mention merits of ACCA but also CIMA(UK), CFA, and CMA(IMA) from immigration to NOT ONLY Canada but also to other western countries point of view including Australia, UK, and USA. MY POST IS FOR THOSE ASPIRING STUDENTS AND INTERESTED PEOPLE WHO CAN AFFORD TO PAY FOR FOREIGN DESIGNATIONS IN PAKISTAN AND WANT TO GO ABROAD LATER NOT ONLY TO CANADA BUT TO ANY OTHER ABOVE MENTIONED COUNTRIES AND WANT TO GET NEW COUNTRY'S DESIGNATION QUICKLY TO BE CALLED DESIGNATED THERE. My post is not for people who do not want to cross âKhalaâ (a water stream to water fields), but for those who want to explore LAND OF OPPORTUNITIES. For them, âSitaron say aagay jahan aur bhi hain.â
As far as recognition of ACCA is concerned, abroad it is completely recognized in UK and in other western countries it provides humongous advantage over Pakistani CA/CMA to get new countryâs designation. In Pakistan, market forces would define its worth with time. My or someone elseâs likeness or dislikeness would not effect its value. Diamond is a diamond, no matter someone likes it or not.
I never said that Pakistani CA or CMA cannot bring success in life, but as far as abroad is concerned, these do not do the same. Similarly, I never said that Canada could only be (and should only be) a destination for professionals. It is nothing but a wrong conclusion. I provided the case for immigration to western countries including Australia, UK, USA, and Canada and provided EXAMPLE of Canada to which I know better then someone who has probably never been here and comments from 16,000 miles away, without probably having any western exposure/experience. It totally depends upon personal choices and available options where a person wants to move, provided he/she has decided to move somewhere in first place, Canada could be ONE of the options not the ONLY. As far as facts are concerned about Canada, nowadays the waiting time for Canadian immigration applications in Canadian embassy in Islamabad is almost 4 to 5 years. Means such a large number of Pakistani skilled professionals have applied for Canadian immigration that they would have to wait for 4 to 5 years. It shows the perceived value of Canadian immigration to Pakistanis. Applicants in other western embassies and probable immigrants to other western countries are over and above and needless to mention. This is also a fact that each year about 10,000 Pakistanis immigrate to Canada (and 4 years later become Citizen) and Pakistanis with Indians, Bangladeshis, and Srilankans are the LARGEST visible minority in Toronto, surpassed Chinese and Italians. My post was for these aspiring Pakistanis and students who see themselves here after some years to PLAN AHEAD. Its my firm belief that those courageous students who can work hard and can put endless and fruitless efforts for Pakistani designations can take challenges to go in western countries and prove themselves. Pakistani designations are not the only available option for success in life. This is not end of the world but the world is there even beyond Pakistani CA/CMA. My objective is to encourage students who are UNNECESARILY failing in Pakistani designations even after required efforts, to show them what other options they can explore, and that Pakistani CA is not end of the world. Again, my post is for those students who can AFFORD to pay for foreign designations in Pakistan. No doubt, besides oneâs personal goals, objectives, and aspirations, Pakistani designations could be best least cost options.
Moreover, earnings AFTER CA may not be a good argument for many who are looking for stability and quality of life in a society where a person can easily be murdered for Rs. 2000 mobile. What about those 98% students who would not get through the CA program? Has anyone estimated %age of earnings of those failed students if they had passed some other foreign designation in Pakistan and remained in Pakistan or eventually moved abroad? Based on personal choices, one may not prefer to go abroad, but the fact is vast majority of Pakistanis actually wanna go abroad. So, rather then imposing oneâs choices on others, experienced people should provide all available options to students and let them and their parents decide what is better for their future.
Its upto oneâs option if he/she wanna spend time and efforts to enter into elite club of about 4000 professionals (please correct me for exact membership of ICAP since its inception in 1961). But where are those thousands of discouraged students who did only articleship, few papers or levels? They have been paying annual membership fees and exam fee for years without getting any certificate in the end and thus contributed toward operating cost of ICAP, and shared the cost to provide luxury to full members of ICAP. Would they opt to go for Pakistani designations again if they get the opportunity to go in past and correct their mistakes about career planning if they had option of ACCA, CIMA, CMA(IMA) or CFA? My post was for those students to FORESEE and PLAN AHEAD for their options. By the way, how many Pakistani CAs or CMAs send their REAL sons or daughters, brothers and sisters, into Pakistani designation programs, SPECIALLY IF THEY CAN AFFORD TO PAY FOR FOREIGN DESIGNATIONS OR SEND THEM ABROAD? How many Army Generals in Pakistan send their real sons in Army (I am not talking about Colonels and Majors here, but Generals)? I donât know when Pakistanis would leave self ego, hypocrisy, and leg pulling behind and would start giving same advice to other unrelated persons that they would give to their own real sons.
Yes, it is true that not every one can leave the country or one should see several factors before moving abroad. Still, large masses of our population have this wish to move abroad, including students of accounting in Pakistan. Those are the audiences of my post, not those who cannot go from Lahore to Toba Tek Singh. Contrary to the statement, the fact is many people from Toba Tek Singh and other towns are very courageous to go abroad. Still, if someone does not wanna move, its his/her personal choice, my sole intention is to provide options by educating about ACCA, CIMA, CMA (IMA), and CFA.
No doubt Pakistani CA or CMA can go to any country and get work, as long as they get WORK VISA these days, which is highly doubtful in todayâs Pakistanâs political and international standing. Golden days are gone for them. With Global Accounting Alliance (GAA) and recent MRAs among GLOBAL associations, members of global associations are getting new countryâs designations and memberships quickly. Thus limiting future of Pakistani CAs and CMAs in countries where they were used to go. NOW why an employer in Cayman would hire a Pakistani CA/CMA, from 15,000 miles away, if he can easily find any global designation holder? If the answer is because they agree at less (or cheaper) than any other global designation holders then the case to get foreign designations in Pakistan is automatically proved. Further, in any case, Pakistani designation is NOT PREFERED ONE in any specific country including Cayman, UK, USA, Australia, or Canada. Generally speaking, Pakistani designation holder would not get high profile job and would not enjoy same esteem as he was enjoying in Pakistan, as in outside world no one knows about Pakistani designations. These are UNRECOGNIZED designations abroad in ANY western country. Each country prefers and respects its own designations first. Moreover, in order to maintain their acceptability in new country, Pakistani CA/CMAs eventually try to get another western designation. Here my argument comes when I ask to save time, energies, and efforts and PLAN AHEAD if someone wants to go abroad 10 years down the road.
As far as I know, till date, Pakistanis can work but cannot settle in UAE and Middle Eastern countries due to several reasons. Yes, again its oneâs choice if he wanna work in Middle Eastern country with bearing all humiliation (Arabi vs. Ajmi). This is why a vast majority of professionals including Pakistani accountants move toward western countries (and get western designations) once they are exposed to quality life and donât wanna go back and their kids are growing up. Further, in designation neutral countries like UAE and Middle East, no sane person can say that western designations like ACCA, CIMA(UK), CMA (IMA) or CFA are less respected or earn less then Pakistani CAs/ CMAs. Fact is majority of the people in Middle East (including Pakistani, Indians, Bangladeshis, Filipinos and including their own nationals etc.) do study for western designations. Moreover, though its personal choice, but still practically speaking how many Pakistanis would prefer to go to UAE or Middle East if they have option to go to UK, Australia, Canada or USA?
Regarding getting ICAEW after Pakistani CA with 3 additional papers, the whole scenario collapse if a student does not get Pakistani CA in first place. If a student enters into elite club of 4000 CAs THEN he/she can do ICAEW otherwise NOT. It is the main hurdle that 98% of Pakistani CA students would not cross. Other global designations provide alternative solution. See, the point is if someone gets ACCA, CIMA, CMA(IMA) or CFA, he/she can work in Pakistan, Middle East and can get other global designations. But this is not true for Pakistani designations.
Getting ICAAs membership through MRA with ICAEW is based again upon getting admittance into Pakistani CA in first place, which is again a false illusion and wrong argument based on reason provided in above paragraph. In Pakistan it is said that only 2% students actually get CA designation. Means 98% of students would not be chartered, thus, there is 98% probability that they would not be ICAEWs or ICAAs. Yes, those unfortunate students and their parents would be paying fees to run ICAP and to provide luxury to its FULL members. Thatâs why members of ICAP cannot afford to lose students (who are sharing cost with them), are scared from introduction and penetration of foreign global designations in Pakistani markets. They know that they cannot increase their market share in outer world but can lose their share in existing Pakistani market. Students of ICAP can (and should) easily calculate decrease in revenues of ICAP (in terms of annual fee plus exam fee), resulting, increased annual membership cost to FULL members, if enrollment in ICAP decreases by let say 2000 students in one year.
As far as need to get ACCA to get ICAEW is concerned, students can decide by themselves which route is easy. Do ACCA and then automatically get ICAEW 5 years later or do Pakistani CA and then ICAEW (in which case 98% student would not get CA or ICAEW). Any person can decide which route is easy.
Now, come to Cayman, USA, and Canada. Pakistani accountants are surviving in Cayman because they get another western designation besides Pakistani designation to compete with other global designations holders. Even they do not settle there for ever and eventually move to USA, Canada, Australia or UK. How many Pakistani CAs are there who donât have other western designations and live there for rest of their lives? Again, my argument prevails, save time and efforts in Pakistan if someone would have to eventually get a western designation 10 years later after Pakistani CA and would have to move to UK, Australia, USA, or Canada. Moreover, CPA has NOT started in Pakistan, but ONLY PREPARATION for CPA is available in Pakistan. CPA exams are offered ONLY in USA. So, a student from anywhere in the world including Pakistan MUST have to go to USA to appear in CPAâs 4 exams, if he has a valid US Visa. Acceptance of Pakistani experience and courses toward 150 credit hour requirement is also debatable. Further, let me say it loudly that I am not providing advantages of ACCA in Pakistan alone but also CIMA(UK), CMA (IMA), and CFA also. I did not mentioned CPA in my original post as I knew that CPA exams are not being offered in Pakistan or elsewhere in the world except USA. Also, satisfaction of other requirements of CPA would probably be more difficult for Pakistani students. Still, if a student can go for US CPA, sure, go ahead for it. It is one of the best designations with almost 350,000 full members. Now, eventually a question comes in mind, why members of ICAP provide the case for all other designations like ICAEW, ICAA, or even CPA which are NOT YET AVAILABLE in Pakistan, but argument against ACCA or other designations that ARE AVAILABLE in Pakistan CURRENTLY? A decision should be made on EXISTING conditions not based on FUTURE availability. Moreover, regarding Canada, yes, ACCA is not the exception to get CGA. CIMA(UK) and ICAEW also have MRAs with Canadian CMA and CA. But, all these 3 designations i.e. ICAEW, CIMA(UK), and ACCA MUST be achieved through FINAL EXAMS, and not based on Pakistani CA/CMA, as Pakistani CA/CMA are UNRECOGNIZED designations. No other ânetwork analysisâ is available or required. It is straight forward fact. Also, what is the need for network analysis? A student in Pakistan, if he/she can AFFORD, should simply do ANY of ACCA, CIMA(UK), CMA (IMA), or probably US CPA and the whole world is open WITHOUT further efforts. Aim of my original post was to save this ânetwork analysisâ later in life, at the age of 35 and with family and kids, IF SOMEONE MOVES ABROAD.
What is the relationship between my personal circumstances and availability of global designations like CIMA(UK), CMA(IMA), CFA, or ACCA in Pakistan. My objective is to advise PROSPECTIVE ASPIRING students and INTERESTED PEOPLE who wanna go abroad to PLAN AHEAD and to provide them career planning advice in advance. It has no relationship with my personal circumstances. My or someone elseâs personal likeness or dislikeness would not change the fact that all these are GLOBAL designations and provide advantage over Pakistani CA/CMA as far as working in foreign countries is concerned. Why people are afraid if any student would get any of above designations in Pakistan, would do a reasonable job in Pakistan, and one day if he/she wants to move to any of foreign country, the transition would be easy with avoidable efforts? I donât see any correlation between this fact and my personal circumstances. Probably, someone is confused in distinguishing between âpersonal circumstancesâ and observations of ground realities and real Canadian experience. How come providing options to students be âruiningâ their career. Why some people are scared of providing information to students about various available options in Pakistan? Is information a dangerous thing? After all each student is the best judge of his/her goals in life. Why do we have this mentality in back home that only Pakistani CA is the last thing in the world and rest is garbage? The people who belong to elite club of 4000 professionals are actually ruining careers of many bright students who could have achieved any other designation if they had taken the right decision in their early life. Further, I donât disrespect students by saying them âinnocent ageâ as I believe that they can take the right decision if they are provided with all available options and information. I donât wanna hide their options from them just to keep one's eliteness intact. Here, a Pakistani wadayra âlordâ comes into mind who does not wanna let people explore new opportunities just to keep his own privilege. Age of 18 is a voting age. A person can get commission in Armed Forces of Pakistan at the age of 19. Last but not least, Rashid Minhas took the right decision and bacame martyred at the age of 21. It is the responsibility of people who know more to pass COMPLETE information to others so the students can take right decision.
Again and again, I say loudly that the objective of my post is neither to start useless CA vs. ACCA debate nor I am against Pakistani designations or mean to degrade them. I don't know how a person can catch such a false impresion. Thanks to monopolistic policies of associations these are good in Pakistan, BUT UNRECOGNIZED abroad and both of these are facts whether someone accepts it or not. My audiences are those aspiring students and interested people who can AFFORD to pay for any of these designations and wanna go abroad in some stage of their lives. I have already said, and mention here again that I am not ACCA. Also, I have presented the case from immigration point of view for not only ACCA, but also CIMA(UK), CMA(IMA), CFA, and CPA (USA). Still, if any bright student wanna be among 98% unfortunate students, then its his/her choice.
I have presented my reasoning, and now its upto the reader how to interpret and deduce conclusions. Its not even in my interest to go into debate that which designation is good or which is less good. It is totally useless to me now. I would be glad to share my knowledge about the said global designations with interested people, but no further comparison with Pakistani designations please. If someone wants to satisfy himself by comparing designations or by promulgating Pakistani designationâs superiority, then he/she should express views at CA vs. ACCA thread or somewhere else. This thread was started with defined objective of providing information about global designations that are available currently in Pakistan to aspiring students and interested people who wants to go abroad in future, from career planning point of view. Please donât ruin it as it wonât benefit to anyone. It won't effect my life or a Pakistani designated accountant's life that is already settled, either here or there. It would confuse students and limit their available options. Please let them take informed decisions and advise them what one would do to his real siblings.
Regards
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- taha316 - 10-10-2011
dear dard and toronto boy you both have alot of experience when it comes to accounting degrees and stuff like that and i REALLY need your help! i have started ACCA just now and given my first 3 papers but i am really confused about what to do AFTER ACCA......my uncle resides in canada and he advices me that i should apply to some of the colleges in toronto for a bcom degree??(he is not much informed i think and neither am I /) his motive is that i should obtain this degree and become a citizen of canada.....i really like the prospect of getting out of Pakistan and canada sounds great but can i really obtain citizenship through this degree??? my A-level results were not that fulfilling(not at ALL) please advice me on what step to take because this prospect sound really irresistible + i want to continue my ACCA degree from over there can it be possible?? if so can you advice me some colleges in toronto and their minimum requirements??
my A-level grades are bad and i am willing to give a retest if this can work...my uncle is also ready to provide me with every basic need (shelter,food etc)life here in Pakistan is getting very stressful for me TO stressful(family problems) ( please advice me regarding this....it would be really helpful if there was a positive feedback but please dont hold back any bad news!
BTW i am 19 right now!