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+--- Thread: pakistan ko Inqilaab ki zarorat hai (/thread-pakistan-ko-inqilaab-ki-zarorat-hai)
- kamranACA - 04-25-2007
Dears,
The words shaukee and mushee etc. at their outlook appear to be amazing but off course we should keep regard of other humans whoever they are, unless they are so hamrful for the society that they cause themselves to be named in certain manner and style. However, in a democratic set-up such words are used by opponent politicians worldwide. Media uses cartoons and so much stuff for such purposes.
However, when directly dealing with others in a personal capacity, we should not use the language which, if in turn, used for us, will create tension and avenge.
Mr. Zial-ul-Haq might be Rehmatullah in any one else's opinion. These words are not against Islam's basic rules. We wish the blessings of Allah for all of our deceased relatives and if some one wants to call his parents like this he can even do it. If some one wants to call him like this, I have no objection. It is the matter of one's own satisfaction.
However, in my view, he was a common man with all habits of a normal politician while he was not a politician. He used all his efforts and resources to prolong his government as every politician wants. He gathered assets of millions while his salary would be probably lesser than Rs. 100,000. He did not have a back ground of rich family. Still, when he died there were assets of millions (might be of billions) of his sons. If some one does not agree with this info, it is his prerogative. However, looking at their homes, properties, vehicles, income levels, expenditures and general status of life, one cannot satisfy hisself by deeming it to be the saving out of that poor salary which our government sector offers, irrespective of highest grades. In 2001, government increased salaries almost to double of the existing level. Even then these are far below the private sector. And before 2001, these were very poor. These salaries dont compete the private sectors. You will never see any body saving like this in private sector despite that he might be earning much much more than these so-called Rehmatullah people. We know every body uses his position in this country and he did it to maximum like all others.
Zia used his position negatively to get into his government, killed Bhutto (i dont get into this matter becoz I am not from PPP, however, it was a reality that Zia did so only for prolonging his government otherwise so many others including Zia were likely to be killed for similar charges and not only Bhutto), promised public to hold elections and refused thereafter. He was only wishing to increase his period, referendum is a big example of his intentions. Referendum was based upon the question that if pakistanies want Islam to expand then it means that Zia would be the president for an other term of five years. MY GOD............... I cannot comment on it. Every one knows details.
I personally do not like to call any "GHAASIB" (like Sikander Mirza, Ayub Khan, Zial-ul-Haq or Musharraf) as Rehmatullah. May God save me from using these words for these peoples.
As a matter of fact, I did not find any major defect in Musharraf's policies until the incident of Chief Justice, still I dont like him as President of Pakistan being an army man. He was never required to occupy this seat. None of general public were behind him when he snatched the government from Nawaz. He is also a GHAASIB. He has crossed his retirement age most probably and he should leave his seat now. He has same intents as other army rulers had in past.
I support Democracy and I believe it to be the most humanly system of Government. We cannot only reject it and call it bad merely becoz it was introduced by Faranggies. We appreciate so much of these Franggies and follow so much of them. There is a Hadees that "Hikmat Kee Baat Moman kee gumshuda meeraas hai". Hadees never mentioned that dont take HIKMAT KEE BAAT from franggies. Let's open our eyes and understand Islam. If some of earlier times Muslims were big scientists, it has nothing to do with current situation. It is just PIDAR-E-MAN SULTAN BOOD, if we dont appreciate faranggies for there positive works and only use to beat the snake-lines (snake's foot-prints) by calling it to be an inspiration from our earlier scientists.
No body restrained us from developing ourselves when franggies were doing it. Now they are stopping muslims from atomic research and development and it is not their fault. They are basically enemies of Muslims. It is our fault that we are so late and far behind of them. It is our fault which we cannot put on others' shoulders. Only fittest has to survive in this world. This is not new forthe world. Even muslims did such things when we were in power. The history of muslim emporers is a matter of shame on our credit in so many areas. If some one has any doubt he should search the reality. We are far far far behind them. I mean it.
We have to be positive, open and on defensive side. We should adopt politics in the world's perspective and develope our selves without challenging the others as CHINA has done. We should take our time without involving ourselves in any disputes and wars. If we succeed doing this for example for fifty years, we might be somewhat able to stop their wickedness and injustice. Otherwise we should not even hope for it.
In my view democracy is a good human development and it is in so many facets near to Islamic concepts of good governance.
At the same time, I dont have any hope from our politicians who take bribes of crores everyday when they are in government and who strive always to be in government not for the benefit of Pakistanies, rather for their own pockets.
May God save my Pakistan.
Best regards,
Kamran.
- Schuaeb - 04-26-2007
Of course, democracy is nearest to Islam. However, had there been democracy in Pakistan ever?
Kamran I agree with your list of ghasibs but you need to add the names of Benazir and Nawaz to complete your list.
Having an army man as your president is the last thing I would like. But as in Pakistan we never had a democratic govt. so I will favor the govt. whose policies are comparatively better. When you have to select among worst, worse may be the right choice. Despite being undemocratic and having whole lot of deficiencies a still consider Musharraf's govt. better than last two govts.
- Muhammad Amir - 04-26-2007
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Tahoma, Arial" id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Kamran I agree with your list of ghasibs but you need to add the names of Benazir and Nawaz to complete your list.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I think Name of benazir must have to be included but name of nawaz sharif should excluded from that list.....by the way i am not a member of PML(N) but i suppose that Nawaz is (LOOKING INNOCENT BACHHA) in whole scene.....I am against Demeocracy(our country's)but why???? Do you know abour our country's democracy ....the illetrate people of remote areas are dictated by their(Sardar,Choudry,Wadera) about whom to caste your vote......isn't it strange democracy...and regarding my previous post i say that any one can have his own openion and one don't need to challenge his openion....yes there might be some problems in General Zia but you know that at that time it's pakistani regime who defeated the world's super power(Russia) and major Amir(R) said that we had won the historicl secret war against world's at that time super power....that's why i am with him...but at same time i also have respect for Bhutto because in his government (Qadiannis were entitled as Infidals/pagans/kaffirs) and no doubt he did alot for muslims and their unity but he was also not good person at same time because of 71s event.....
- kamranACA - 04-27-2007
Dears,
So many of us feel that we defeated Russia. I have serious objection on it. It was USA who defeated Russia and not Pakistan.
It's just like that Afghanies say that they have defeated Russia. We Pakistanies would laugh and say you would have never done this had we not been able to procure arms, amunition and USA interests for you people. Like-wise this scenario attaches back to USA intents and policies.
Pakistan was a "MOHRA" in USA hands and played its role against Russia. We were doing all on the orders of USA. General Akhter Abdul Rehman earned billions from this war and from his linkages with drugs producing peoples at Afghanistan. His sons (Hamyun Akhter etc) now own sugar mills and other projects valuing billions of rupees. If anybody has doubts I can remove them becoz they own sugar mills in near vicinity of my residential town. Same was position of General Zia and others who were involved in this all so-called Jehad. General Zia was the son of an Imam Masjid and now his sons are owners of billions. How people can manage this all with limited salaries of Govt pay scales. Certainly they use unfair means. No body can ask them why do they do this all.
Yes,I dont argue in favor of Benazir and Nawaz particularly. However, still army men are the BIGGEST GHAASIBS of our country. Because, normally they dont give power to politicians and when due to any reason politicians appear to be in power, still their stearing remains in the hands of army men.
We should have a deep look on historical realities. It is the unfortune of our nation that it has always mistaken the things just as we feel that Russia was defeated by Pakistan and Pakistan was as much HOSHIYAAR and CHALAAK that it remained behind the bushes and was not visible to Russia. What a joke is it.
It's just like that the muslims at some point of time were praising Saddam Hussain for his brave and courgeaous attitude against USA. People started naming their kids as SADDAM. But time proved that he was a feared man who had have no courage and who instead of accepting Shahaadat like a brave muslim, tried to hide himself like a rat and died on the death of dog.
I dont mean anything wrong by saying these words. I just feel like drowning when I realize that we all without any reason and without knowing the matters in depth consider so many guys our hero. This has always been the problem of muslims. We have always been decieved. Dont you feel that when some muslims were working with YAZEED, they were considering this man as their hero. Yes, this has happened in reality.
What I feel in current situation. No one is my hero as far as governments are concerned. I am totally against the army governments. I like democracy but yes, as stated by Amir, the big vote banks of WADAIRAs etc are big question on Pakistan's democracy setup. Still, if such wadairas have vote banks, it is again the fault of those innocents who treat such wadairas as their heros.
So please open your eyes and dont select your heros randomly with closed eyes.
Best regards,
Kamran.
- Schuaeb - 04-27-2007
Certainly it was USA who vanquished USSR, and Pakistan and Afghanistan were the countries used to achieve this target. We can't say that Afghanis had nothing to do with the defeat of USSR. 1.5 million Afghanis died in the struggle. Had USSR was fighting against some other nation things would have been easier. Afghanis, continuing their traditions, were again remained unconquered at that time. So saying that Afghanistan had no role to play in USSR war will be unjust. Pakistan, also, due to its geographical location was a key player. However, there can't be two opinions about the fact that it was US who defeated USSR, and it was the country that derived maximum benefits from the fall of USSR.
Another important question in this regard is; were the consequences of fall of USSR in favor of the world. The world was a bipolar place before that, and the aftermath of the breakdown left US as the sole BADMASH, which allowed them to do whatever they liked. Barbaric attacks on Afghanistan and Iraq are the examples. However, perhaps, fighting against USSR was necessary for us as the sovereignty of the country could have been in danger.
What Kamran said about General Akhter Abdur Rehman (the main architect of the war) and Zia ul Haq are open facts. I would not have been very much concerned if they would have made money out of the funds given for the war. The issue of drugs as Kamran mentioned is an unpardonable sin. Heroin, hash and other drugs are not only just commonly available in Pakistan but also green passport became a matter of embarrassment for Pakistanis the world over. Now days we have a repute of being terrorist. And previously we earned a similar sort of worst repute as being smugglers of drugs.
- Muhammad Amir - 04-28-2007
So regarding KamranACA sahib's post i always give example of Malaysia..they are the most powerful islamic country...and just because of literacy...so we first need a literacy program then a domocracy
- Muhammad Amir - 04-28-2007
Mr shoaib is right by giving some credit to them(Afghanes)...and i analyse onething which i also want to share that is USA came in Afghanistan and IRAQ these two are most significantly trained millitants coutries because of decades of war and probably this will be the start for the ending of USA isn't it..
- kamranACA - 04-30-2007
Dears,
First of all I agree with Shoaib on Afghanies role in USSR war. But still one should not forget that same Afghanies could not fight against USA after 9/11 incident. Goreela war is not an example of being undefeatedness. It is the nature of Pakhtoons that they dont get tired and dont accept defeats from their hearts. This will ever continue in Afghanistan. Besides having courage, Afghanies became a hurdle against USSR due to USA support and supplies. They would have done this at their own but might not have succeeded defeating USSR. The matter being discussed is the defeat of USSR.
If we have to take the example of Malaysia, then we should know that Malaysia did not get involved in Wars like Paksitan. Yes there might be security concerns at Malaysia as well but they are on the policy of China. China did not get involved in wars with any big nation (except Taiwan). Off course Malaysia is praisable. Still getting such progress required so many sacrifices which we are not ready to even consider. You can just analyse the tourisim policies of Malaysia and Pakistan. Pakistan has not done anything since years. I have visited almost all important areas specific for tourism but could not find improvements. Rather we are fastly eating out the wood resources that is going to eliminate our green jungles. We have done nothing to attract foreigners. In contrast Malaysia is attrcting tourists from worldover including european conutries. For doing this we have to change our thoughts and habits.
Drugs has remained the biggest allegation on Pakistanies and it was not a false allegation. I dont comment any more.
It's my heartiest wish to see USA dominated by Muslims. I dont pray for crushing them out as it is not the Sunnah of Hazrat Muhammad Peace Be Upon Him. Just recall the incident of TAIF. I pray that may God convert all americans and their generations to Islam. May God they become the purist Muslims. I just remember the incident of CHANGAIZ KHAN who crushed muslims in Iraq and Khawarzam. Same was done by his son Jojee and grandson Hilakoo Khan. But ultimately so many (i mean so many) from his generation became true muslims.
If we put the matters on God, then every thing is possible. They could either be destroyed or converted to Islam by the will of Allah.
Otherwise keeping in view the character of muslim leaderships and governmental policies, I dont estimate anything to happen in near future.
May God be with muslims.
Best regards,
Kamran.
- kamranACA - 04-30-2007
In my view democracy is not a hinderance in way of education.
Regards,
Kamran.
- Muhammad Amir - 05-01-2007
Good optimisic approach!!!!!
- Schuaeb - 05-03-2007
Democracy is never a hinderence in the way of literacy. But for democracy to be successful literate minds (not mere education like ours) is a must.
Kamran sought out things so easily, thatâs the peculiarity of us Muslims. Just pray to God that either they become Muslims or get destroyed and HMAIN KHUD KHUCH NA KERNA PARAY, always asking for divine help. Even when the way of divine help has been clearly told in our religion. I mean if we want to defeat USA, should we go to mosque and start praying or we should equip ourselves to fight with them? I know all of you will go for the later option, but this is not the way we think unconciously. Any religion, which refrains from practicall measures, is, in my view, wrong. And ours is the most practical religion
- Muhammad Amir - 05-03-2007
I am very happy from last post of "Schuaeb"...Further more i want to say that west itself accept islam is the best religion and sepecially UK and Australian Governments are very keen to protect the rights of their muslim nationals but my dear people west only like the sufi(not real suffies) Version of islam where people cosistently recite "ALLAH-HOO" and "HAQ-HOO" but they don't even know what is ALLAH what is HAQ and what is HOO????......... they need passive version of ISLAM they need the version of islam where people don't do(AAMR-E-BIL-MAROOF....WANAHI-UNIL-MUNKER)...they need the islam where muslim is a quiet minority...they need islam where muslims don't know about there available resources......they need (JEEHAD LESS) ISLAM Simply...
and the problem i mentioned earlier that they need Sufi Version of Islam is not of the view that i am against Suffis no no i am really is a FAN of SUFFIS but of those SUffies who were real suffies like You all are well aware of one SUFI BUZARG MUJADID-ALF-e-SANI(Rehmatullahi-e-Allih)he was the only concreate Wall against the FITNA of Akbar...i know another SUFI like you all know about him is Shaikh Sallh-Uddin-Ayuubie(Rehmatullahi-e-Allih) he was the conqueror of Baitul-Maqdus....I know lot of Mujahid Suffies like Shah Esmail Shaheed(Rehmatullahi-e-Allih) like Syed Ahmed Shaheed(Rehmatullahi-e-Allih) and not only they both were Suffies but as well as Shaheeds you can see their graveyards in BALA-KOAT and they both were from the faimly of Shah Wali Ullah(Rehmatullahi-e-Allih)sahib....i know long list of suffies those who were also great MUJADIS like Moulana Mehmood-ul-Hassan Deobandi(Rehmatullahi-e-Allih) the founder of RESHMEE ROUMAL TEHREEK, like Moulana Qaseen Nanvatvi(Rehmatullahi-e-Allih) like Moulana Gangohi(Rehmatullahi-e-Allih) like AMMER-E-Shaiat Moulana Atta-Ullah Shah Boukhari(Rehmatullahi-e-Allih) the Mujahid of Khatm-e-e-Nabbuwat.............................So this is the righest way of Sufism and these all were great Scholors as well as Great SUffies of their time with great Mujahids.......
In last i must say that we should equip ourselves with every thing we need to cope with them....May ALLAH(Subhan.Waa.Ta'aala) Give all of us courage to do so.
- kamranACA - 05-03-2007
Dear Shoaib,
I never said that we are going to get something without doing something at our own part. I am the one who always used the words of SURVIVAL OF FITTEST.
I know God rarely changes the conditions of those who dont wish to change it by their own efforts.
However, praying from God and having a hope is good for muslims. We have to work very very hard. I have quoted the example of China and I stated that if we wud succeed getting progressed without getting into any war for next fifty years with clear and focussed thoughts, it may lead to strengthen us against other nations. Otherwise we should not even think on it.
You must see my previous messages. Yes I agree with your thought of working hard to get something. I dont beleive in sitting in homes/mosques and praying God without doing any effort. This would be like living in fools' paradise.
Regards,
Kamran.
- Muhammad Amir - 05-04-2007
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Tahoma, Arial" id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"> This would be like living in fools' paradise.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
You are Right
- Schuaeb - 05-06-2007
Kamran your point of view is very much clear to me, and I'm one who strong supports such opinion.
All of us, as I mentioned in last post, would agree to this. But this thinking is not reflected in our attitudes and we conciously or unconciously are waiting for divine help