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+--- Thread: Our National Pride (/thread-our-national-pride)
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Our National Pride - amam_786 - 08-28-2004
Asslamu-aleikum
I had always been thinking how far will we go in the name of liberty.
previously Pakistani women were considered to be a symbol of modesty.
Some time back they started to participate in games waering thight leggngs. At that time I felt that it is not going to stop here.
now we see some of girls playing "Squash" wearing Knickers. now what else. we now see a Pakistni girl swimmer wearing the same vulgar swim suit maching in vulgarity to western girls being welcome at swim pool in "Athens".
She was specially welcomed at pool. It is like a "THAPPAR" on face our nation's pride in our culture. Our government advocate Pakistan First. Than why, what was not Pakistan's culture, is being embeded into our culture. How far are we going to end.
We must remember that we are still a Muslim Nation and we can not accept any such representative of our nation who is a shameful thing for our national pride. will u accept your daughter or nice living in a more vulgar society and becoming a part of it? Is it necassary to become more vulgar to progress in this world which is going to end some day in smoke?
We all must atleast not accept it and tell the rulers meaning of our National Pride.
- Pracs - 08-28-2004
Anam, this is the 21st century there is nothing we can do to stop it. Look at Iran and Saudi, they have tried to bottle it all up but have ended up with frusturated societies.
I maintain that it is a woman's right to participate in all fora and walks of life, perhaps we can find a middle path. Women could play squash in more modest clothes etc.
Lastly society is made up of people of all shades, its a spectrum. Lets be a little tolerant. You know I see people becoming very good 'practising' muslims when they emigrate to Canda or the US.... a complete contrast isn't it !
Don't be so jazbaati about it,.. follow what you believe in and truth shall prevail.
Pakistani women still are a symbol of modesty my sister.
- Azeem Shah Khan - 08-29-2004
w/s anam
to some extent i agree with ur assessment, WE as a so called Pakistani Nation have lost moral/social values a great deal recently.
however, i dont agree with what u said about RESTRICTING women to the door of house. i think they should participate in anything and everything but as Pracs said "MODESTLY". i dont see any problem women taking part in squash wearing LOOSE T-Shirt and a track suit bottms (after all it covers their body more than a SAARI does).
the thing i dont like is that we are trying to progress and for that we have adopted the WORST elements of any progressive nation first. i give credit to India for brain-washing our younger generation. we are so-called patriotic but we cant live without watching indian movies in which they openly use INDECENT language against Pakistan and Pakistanis. like yesterday i was watching Pak Vs Aus cricket final at Sony TV, during the innings break somebody changed the channel and i think put B4U Movies, it was showing a film called LOC Kargil, i was amazed to listen to the dialogues, they used every single "GAALI" i know and explicitly in Pakistan's name.
there is NO harm in change, in order to progress one SHOULD change but it should be WELL DIRECTED. i know ONE cannot stop it, but it can be reduced, i dont think WE as a nation are educated enough to watch all such vulgarity and still control our "NAFS". a true depiction of my above statement is a Movie/CD recently released in Pak which captured Amatuer videos taken in Internet Cafe's in Karachi, i havent's seen it but have heard that it is more vulgure than any RATED movie..........and ofcourse its not a movie but the REALITY.......and thats where WE are heading.
May Allah give us strength to fight against Shetaan .....Aameen
Kind Regards
Azeem
- Pracs - 08-29-2004
Just to add to the what azeem has said,.. i think the virtue of modesty should also be a part of man's character, it may not fit to his dressing but does go a long way in behaviour and conduct.
Yes azeem i saw a talk show on the net cafe' debacle, it is rather disturbing but society withers because of a lot other reasons. The concept of halal and haram RIZK is something that we have completely forgotten. A single morsel of haram Rizk can destroy generations, I think that is something happening in the Pakistani society at large.
- jbladeus - 08-30-2004
Dont want to patronise your views but amam, but you seem to have very myopic views of the terms 'modest', 'national pride' and the so called 'ghairat'.
Modesty
Why does it always have to be a woman's job to uphold the
modesty of the nation? Where were you when they devised a certain male sport in which large, burly men ride each other in a dirt ring, rubbing mud over each other's bodies and wearing nothing but a loin cloth??!! How can you shut your eyes over this totally 'modest' sport and then cry hoarse over a poor girl trying to compete in a totally 'immodest' sport squash! By the way, if you had even seen the actual race, our poor upholder of the nation's modesty was swimming in a spandex fully covered body suit which is the norm these days for both male and female swimmers.
National pride
Why is our nation's pride hurt only when our women's start competing in international sports? Why isnt it hurt when we read news like the one when 25 Pakistanis were found dead from suffoction in a container in greece which was bound for western europe? Why isnt our national pride hurt when we find Pakistani's being beheaded for drug trafficking in Saudi Arabia after nearly every Friday prayers. Why isnt it hurt when a gathering of so-called village elders (panchayat) orders a girl of only 17 years to be gang-raped by three men from a different tribe? You want to know what she did to deserve this? Her ELEVEN (yes... only eleven) year old brother was found 'immorally' walking along with a THIRTY (yes... 30!!) year old woman of that other tribe!!
You and others like you seriously need to get your definitions of 'modesty' and 'national pride' straight, my friend!
________________________
Arrrgh... it sure's gonna be mighty rough sailin' today ... mates!
- Pracs - 08-30-2004
i second u on all two counts
- Azeem Shah Khan - 08-30-2004
well said guybrush
azeem
- Sultan_Rules - 08-31-2004
interestin topic started by anam
But tell me would any man like her mother or sister or wife wearing dress like this in Pakistan?????
http//news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/3812839.stm
Even hindu women having ture hindu spirit or other religion would not like wearing such dress.
- Pracs - 08-31-2004
I didn't know she was only 13 years old,.... I am not taking this any further....
- Goodman - 09-01-2004
excuse the daft question
a Pakistani girl is competing in the games, its a matter of national pride that she is competing. It projects us as a moderate and forward thinking country. Whats the problem?
If her dressing is the main problem that why dont you send somebody in the dress; you think is appropriate. Its easy to talk but difficult to implement. The day you practically do something, only then come and talk.
- jbladeus - 09-01-2004
For goodness sake guys... the kid's only 13!
And sultan, i would kindly ask you to stop sermonising. We are mashallah already practicing muslims. If you are so virtuous, why dont u stop watching bollywood, hollywood and all the satellite channels? Our problem is that we all love to ogle at other's ladies but our 'ghairat' and 'hamiyat' suddenly starts to boil over when we see one of our own kids competing in international competitions. Sheer hypocricy.
And besides, it aint a dress, its a swimming costume, you perverts!!
________________________
Arrrgh... it sure's gonna be mighty rough sailin' today ... mates!
- Ice_Blue - 09-02-2004
my vote is for Guybrush
Ice Blue
- Augustus - 09-02-2004
I don't know why we always forget that islam is a religion of nature and will remain till the last day rise... so whenever we talk we just talk about extremist and fundamentalist. Islam clearly talk about women and their right but at the same time islam impose some restrictions on both men and women too. our so called NGO leaders like Asma Jahangir and Hina Jeliani etc always talk about women rights but they never talk what islam impose restrictions especially on Parda and dress...y such hypocracy.... a muslim womon can do anything in every field but by abiding the rules and regulations of islam. It's a lame excuse that we are living in a modern world and can't do anything by adopting their culture... it's mean Islam is now useless or islam is not religion of nature?
I must say a pakistani womon can do anything but by keeping it's limits and cultural value in mind
- jbladeus - 09-03-2004
Augustus
Restrictions should be there and rightly so. These kids arent competing in a bikini or beauty pageant where the main purpose behind such competitions is to appreciate the physical beauty of the competitors which in turn can lead to lust and other immoralities. They're competing in sports where everybody's there to watch and appreciate the game and athletic talents of the competitors. Most of the ppl dont even bat an eye nor do they care what the competitor is wearing. What matters to them though is their best times, records and the sport itself.
Its just that when some of our perverts/hypocrites/frustrated individuals watch these games not to enjoy the sport but to ogle and when they see a Pakistani girl competing, their so-called ghairat suddenly awakens and then as a result, these kinds of topics are posted on public discussion boards.
________________________
Arrrgh... it sure's gonna be mighty rough sailin' today ... mates!
- Pracs - 09-03-2004
Hi all,
You know its,.. very interesting how the masses jump over any thing and every thing that has any affinity with women and parda and ghairat. If that is what Islam is about !. The dilmma is that.. people on the helm of relegion affairs are not educated the correct way. Have you ever tried to profile the local Masjid Imam ... who is he.. let me tell you a majority are kids who didn't make upto the labour force.. because they didn't have it in them.. or their parents were too poor to afford them.. these rejects end up in an all expense paid Madrissah and converted into the mullahs you see today. There are exceptions I agree. But I have not seen one such Maulvi at the Sermon on a friday telling us that we will go to hell because we are a society that
-lives on Bribery
-cheat on our taxes
-don't treat our daughters on the same footing as our sons
-are a corrupt society in the very meaning of the word.
-slob on our jobs,, nobody is ever worried if they have done a day's worth of job to earn the salary (have we done enough, so that it is halal)
-that we do not give enough charity (i am not talking about zakat)
none of the above is a policital agenda,.. mosques around the country are funded by corrupt businessman and the likes (horders and tax cheaters and like wise). All we are concerned about is our women. Is it not pathetic that our mothers and sisters and wives are unsafe in the cities of the Islamic republic,.. for the fear of being oogled at and harrased by MOMINS..
Its un islamic if a 13 year old competes in Olympics.. though its OK to have brothels in each of our cities, for people not to have clean drinking water, education a house to live in, absence of an efficient judiciary, killing the minorities, killing other muslims - That my friends is un islamic. We are the one's to blame,. not the governmant alone for we let it all happen.
I want you to walk into any bazaar of the Islamic republic and see how men at the corners eye women... is that becoming of a muslim,.. is there an islamic responsibility on the men in this country. Maybe most of us are afraid for our women,. and using the Parda card.. just makes sense. dont't it ?
The worst thing is that we the enlightened and the eduated (only 5 % of Paksitani have the privellage to be highly educated = masters degree, or a professional degree) think on the same lines. God help us then, God really help us.
I don't see any of as a good muslim by locking up u our women in the house and saying your five prayers. There is a whole lot to go with that.
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