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+--- Thread: they have nothing (/thread-they-have-nothing)
they have nothing - abdulmajid - 03-31-2005
they have really nothing to argue. that's why they just waste thier time, needlessly, to attack me personally. and obviously they try to ignore if i write something to suppoert my aruements and jump on the posts where their names are mentioned. so i have decided not to reply them. i am posting once again what i had written a couple of days back, and as expected no one bothered to read that. i am once again trying to project the actual thing, because i am damn sure that they don't know what's i am discussing.
supporters of woman-led mix gathering prayers normally argue that
1. this is a symbolic gesture to present before the world, the discrimination against women even in worship places.
2. this is a vital step in abolishing the dependence of a muslim woman on men even in religious matters.
3. it's a struggle to get the equal rights with men. if a woman can offer her prayers in the imamat of a man then why can't a man do the same.
4. islam allowes prayers in the imammat of a woman.
i have found that those who don't support women-led mix gathering prayers argue that
1. it's not allowed in religion as most jurists of past and present agree that no prayer of men led by a woman is allowed, those jurist who support woman-led prayers like ibn taymiyya and perhaps al tabri and others think that woman can only lead her kin in a nafal (obligatory) prayer. however these scholars are in minority. even today no prominent scholar support it, egyptian scholars are mentioned in this regard, but almost all of them are of the opinion that a woman can lead other women but not men.
2. prayers are included in haqooq ullah (rights of allah), so these rights should be fulfilled as allah himself has required, without bothering which sex is being given the superiority in this regard. there are other ways of showing symbolic gestures. can a women take the place of pope??
3. what if women start leading men in prayers, will it improve the state of women is our societies. the real cause of injustice with women should be adressed.
4. mix gatherings, will definitly lead to other social evils. ( what u think!!!!)
i have honeslty tried to present what both the sides think, without going into detail. if any one wants to know the detail then he or she can use internet. but it's obvious that people who don't support congregations with mix gatherings have much more solid grounds. (give your opinion then we will see why their arguements are stronger)
i have always felt that so called activists of women rights are not sincere, they only create a hype to get funds and recognition, as track record of ms.nomani suggests. my personal opinion (as i have mentioned before in my previous post, and hope members will agree) is that state of women will only improve if we are prepared to address two areas
1. more and better education to both men and women, especailly religious education so misconceptions about our great religion are removed and people know what rights women have.
2. better work place environment for women. it also includes the ease with which they can reach and come back from their work place. and the environement of workplace i.e women are not just treated as show pieces in offices, they get equal opportunities of promotion, respect from male colleagues. for this purpose it will be much better if more and more women-only organisations are formed so women can feel how to do work in equal opportunity environment.
and offcourse there are other areas of concern too, like easy access to justice etc. but these are the real issues which should be adressed to help women in achieving their due status in muslim societies. and non- issues like woman-led mix gathering congreagations are diverting attention from real issues and helping no one except fame-hungry greedy individuals.
inta habieba omri, malikta omri
- Desert Sleet - 03-31-2005
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Tahoma, Arial" id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by abdulmajid</i>
<br />they have really nothing to argue. that's why they just waste thier time, needlessly, to attack me personally. and obviously they try to ignore if i write something to suppoert my aruements and jump on the posts where their names are mentioned. so i have decided not to reply them. i am posting once again what i had written a couple of days back, and as expected no one bothered to read that. i am once again trying to project the actual thing, because i am damn sure that they don't know what's i am discussing.
inta habieba omri, malikta omri
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
There are many people to whom this doesn't apply, but I think there are enough on here that it does apply to to warrant this topic...
It seems like a norm on here to be disrespectful to people that don't agree with you, and I think it really undermines the point of a community like this. Discussion is for mutual understanding and education, it's not a contest... I personally often hesitate to post because I am certain that some juvinile member will come and degrade the conversation into an insult contest, and I think it would be beneficial to put a stop to that behavior on an administrative level.
One example I can cite is when a topic about religious beliefs came up. The thread poster offered to defend his religious position, and I didn't feel he was being forthcoming enough, so midway through the thread, when it seemed that poster had left, I offered to do the same. I did so for a page or two until a particular poster resorted to ad homs in every post, and so I left the thread (don't know what happened to it, it was a while back). This is just one example, and a quick search in the forums will reveal many, many more like it. One such member is Abdul.
What are your opinions on the problem or lack of a problem?
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âLittle minds are tamed and subdued by misfortune; but great minds rise above it.â