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+--- Thread: kpmg or AFF (/thread-kpmg-or-aff)
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kpmg or AFF - capricorn_me - 05-09-2007
yaar wht u think which will be best for me .
i get an option by both of them.
i personally think for KPMG ( bcoz when i go there i like the atmosphere , by grace of god within few minutes i can judge and comment about any thing , so thats y i leaned towards it , not havin some solid reason other then that in AFF i was told that i will get very few chances or almost none to do audit)
plz be sincere and advise!!!
- capricorn_me - 05-09-2007
sorry i forget to tell, with respect to lahore office
- Muhammad Amir - 05-09-2007
There is no match of AFF with other 3 giants........
Try for AFF otherwise the 2nd best option would be KPMG...
- capricorn_me - 05-09-2007
and y so . plz support ur opinon with facts. not just saying join this or that. and guyz b quick
i hav time uptil monday only , then i hav to choose one
- kamranACA - 05-09-2007
Dear Capricorn,
In Lahore AFF is better than KPMG.
In KPMG, I dont see the true partnership culture if seeing pakistan as a whole. This is a thing little above than a student's perception, so it does not attract questions/comments from others. Yes off course every office of KPMG has partners who are almost independent of other office partners. In my view all offices should have a common plateform and should use the services of other offices in their own jurisdiction area. Teams must not be allocated in one's area by the other office. This happens in KPMG. If KPMG Islamabad gets some business in Sheikhupura, it will not ask LHR office to allocate team on that assignment and to save time, resources and travelings. Rather, they will allocate their team from Islamabad. However, in some big audits of banks etc they use the services of other offices. Further, they are so much interested in their own office work and dont give much importance to the work of other offices, if so allocated to them.
There are three partners of KPMG at Lahore i.e. Mr. Farid-ud-din Ahmad (FCA), Mr. Kamran Iqbal Yousafi (FCA) and Mr. Kamran Iqbal Butt (FCA). The first two deal with audit while the last one deals with tax. They all are nice persons. Mr. Farid is a big name.
I feel KPMG is a very good firm and is well placed in terms of top 3 positions, still, it does not have so much audit, consultancy and tax assignments as much AFF has in Lahore. However, I like KPMG Islamabad. At Islamabad it is almost almost equal to AFF. Mr. Safiullah, Mr. Kazmi and Mr. Kashif were three partners of KPMG at Islamabad but now Kashif has moved to KPMG Ireland. I dont know who has been taken as partner at his place.
AFF at Lahore has much diversification in audit, tax and consultancy specially after including ERP implementation in their services. Here one problem creates the issues. AFF has rotation problems. A student is not properly rotated as must be done to properly equip him with practical knowledge. There are four partners of AFF at Lahore Mr. Shehzad Hussain, Mr. Imran Farooq Mian, Mr. Irfan Umer Farooqi and Mr. Muhammad Masood.
Mr. Shehzad is the main person of AFF at Lahore. He should take measures for the betterment of students. Once a student of AFF came to me and said that he wants to leave AFF. I asked why? He replied that since his joining (almost 1 and half year) he is allocated at a client located almost 75 kilometers from lahore for ERP implementation and is never rotated. He further said that he dont expect any rotation in forseeable period.
This is the only problem with AFF. If some one gets into audit, he is a lucky man and should not think to join anyother firm.
I feel that in terms of diversification of assignments, Ford Rohdes is better than KPMG at Lahore. I am talking about Lahore only. Further, you once said that your cousin is in RACO. I know it is not in top 4. But at Lahore it is extremely good. You can also join it. In audits and consultancy at Lahore, RACO is better than KPMG. I need no comments or disagreements from others. I know at Lahore Ford Rohdes and RACO are better than KPMG and Deloitte. This is my view and you must accept it after using ur mind.
If I dont have much interet for big 3 or big 4 then my preference at Lahore goes as under
1. AFF
2. FRSH
3. RACO
4. KPMG
5. AASR
6. Hameed Ch.
7. BDO
8. Deloitte
Best regards,
Kamran.
- capricorn_me - 05-10-2007
yaar very nice to listen u.
u said all wht i think and percieve.
i hav my cousins and frndz wokin with AFF, KPMG, FRSH, RACO, Anjum asim,
i talked to them in detail and wht i conclude is that if one really wants an exposure raco is best option , oh man, the work load they hav which really polish u upto the peak of one's.
But if u want a name attached with u then it comes with AFF. the reason i dun like it , as said by u, rotation problem. most of trainee's hav the same problem and i dont want to be one of them thats y i think abt kpmg. secondly AFF is also taking its hand back frm audit.
i thought abt RACO but , since its a human nature to attract towards brandz n gud names) i attracted towards AFF n kpmg
very confusing situation...
(
- kamranACA - 05-10-2007
Yes Capricorn,
You are right. At KPMG you will get a tag with your name and would be accepted anywhere in the world. This will not happen while working in RACO becoz RACO is not attached with big 4. One of the big 4 and one of top ten, when decided for affiliation in Pakistan, they contacted RACO first of all in Pakistan but they could not agree to each other due to various professional reasons.
However, RACO has been affiliated with various firms in the past like KMG, KPMG, Ernst and Whiney and Ernst and Young etc. Students rarely know these facts. It got diversified international top 5 exposure in those days. Anyways.
If some one wants to have a brand name, KPMG is fine for him.
Regards,
Kamran.
- capricorn_me - 05-11-2007
hey kamran wht do u say abt grant throton.
one of the firms is going to be affiliated with it soon.
- capricorn_me - 05-11-2007
it comes on 7 or 8 no. in ranking( lets c how it changes rankin pf pak. , may or may not be the case)however, this is a by the way statement in this topic sorry 4 that
- capricorn_me - 05-11-2007
yaar wht do u say abt allegations against AFF, i am much afraid of it too, given by A & Q associates( for professional missconduct)
- kamranACA - 05-11-2007
Dear Capricorn,
In Pakistan no one can challenge AFF. There are so many reasons which a student can discuss but being the memeber of ICAP, I cant go in so much detail. SImple is that most qualified men are from AFF and AFF has always its representation in ICAP and SECP. Further, the mistakes could be committed by every one. Since they are big, they are more exposed.
There could be hundreds of professional reasons for a given allegation and at the end of the day every one has to prove his statements.
I dont foresee any problems with AFF. This is very much true.
GRANT THORNTON. This is already affiliated with Anjum Asim Shahid Rehman. This is not gonna be affiliated with any one else in near future.
Grant Thornton is at number 5 worlwide but one should not forget that there is a gap of almost 10 to 12 billion US dollars per annum in the earnings of number 4 and number 5. If the number 4 (KPMG last year) earned 15 plus billion US dollars then Grant Thornton was at round about 3 Billion US Dollars. This is an example only.
Regards,
Kamran.
- capricorn_me - 05-11-2007
sorry buddy, i did a mistake...
the corect name is Steephens and Morees( i m much confuzed in these dayz and makin alot of mistakes...
)anyhow, thanks for all of ur cooperation
- Schuaeb - 05-12-2007
The firm you mentioned capricon in your last post, i guess, is alredy associated with Syed Hussain. (may be I am wrong)
Kamran in your rating you put KPMG even below RACO. Now, I don't know the exact situation, and my info is based upon the facts provided by some friends working in these places. I don't know where much RACO student who think that thiers is better than KPMG. I don't know whether you have a chance to meet with a KPMG guy recently. They are totally convinced they are better than AFF at the moment. The current rotation of clients have really brought them some real advantage. If you will say that RACO is better than KPMG in front of the friends i mentioned they would real indulge in a wrangle with you.
AASR is better than HCC, this also is subject to some contradictions. I would like that you extent your list to firms below 8 also
- capricorn_me - 05-13-2007
ok yaar kamran.
finally suggest now 1 since i hav to take a step.
i hav consulted with my teachers too in this regard they provide a very good guidence.
wht will u advise on the basis of
1 clients
2 rotation of job
3 working style
4 mixture of audit + assingnment( since i told u in AFF i was told not to make any noise if they alwz send me for assig.)
5 finally reputation in local + int. terms
Kpmg Or AFF
seeking ur final ans.
thanks 4 all of ur cooperation and may b for a good time i will b not availabe in this forum , reson u may guess
best of luck
take care
- kamranACA - 05-13-2007
Dear Shoaib,
ICAP has two regions i.e. Southern and Northern regions. In my view SOuthern region goes as under
1. AFF
2. KPMG
3. FRSH
4. DELOITTE
In northern region there are four big cities i.e. Lahore, Islamabad, Faisalabad and Multan. If some one wants to have a lable of Big 3 (In northern region I dont call it big 4) then the choice should be as under
1.AFF
2.KPMG
3.FRSH
However, if we search for quality work and exposure then we should talk for all cities/offices separately. For Lahore I have following preference
1. AFF
2. FRSH
3. RACO
4. KPMG
5. AASR
6. Hameed Ch.
7. BDO
8. Deloitte
At Islamabad it follows as under
1.AFF
2.KPMG
3.FRSH
4.AASR
5.DELOITTE
6.RACO
At Islamabad, KPMG is doing extremely good and can be placed almost almost equal to AFF. Still, KPMG is considered after AFF by students.
At Faisalabad, AFF, KPMG and FRSH have no offices. The preference at FSd is as under
1. RACO
2. Deloitte
There are almost 11 oter firms at Faisalabad among which Zahid Jamil and Co is better but these cannot stand in any competition.
At Multan, the only good firm is Deloitte but it also does not have any bigger clients.
Shoaib,
In deciding any firm's category southern region is imperative. So many firms established in Punjab/northern region after a long time but these were good at southern region since the outset. In Punjab some twenty years ago Rahim Jan and Co was best and all were counted after it. Since the breaking of Rahim Jan and Co due to Evolution of Hameed Ch and Co and Gardezi and Co. (Mr. Hameed Ch. and Mr. Ikram Gardezi played their parts), AFF got the best position in Northern region and after that it is on top.
There had been big controvercies in KPMG lahore since years due to clashes between partners/managers. Now its environment is good and quarreling people have left/transferred.
RACO is very good at Lahore, in my view point. It is almost equal to FRSH but FRSH has taken benefit of merger. Still, P.R. of RACO is much more than FRSH partners. RACO's KHI office is not considerable so it has no support from southern region. Whereas all other firms have support from southern region. All the existence of RACO is based upon Northern Region and in my view when they will succeed improving KHI office properly, they would be further improved. They have exposure of working with KMG, KPMG, Ernst and Whiney and Ernst and Young. This firm has very good potential, in my view.
Still, yes KPMG has international fame and if some one wants to get its brand name, it should be preferred.
Pakistan level preference (Consolidated) is as under as per my view for top three firms
1. AFF
2. KPMG
3. FRSH
Hope the matter is clarified.
Regards,
Kamran.