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IS ACCA LOSING IT'S VALUE IN PAKISTAN? - Printable Version

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IS ACCA LOSING IT'S VALUE IN PAKISTAN? - pauliangenius - 02-23-2010

Nobody can deny the present large inflow of students in ACCA. Meet 10 guys on the street and half of them will tell you they are doing/or will be doing ACCA. Certainly it is a cause of concern for future wannabe ACCAs just like me. I am in my last year of A'lvls and is going to complete it inshallah by June. By then should'nt i and lots of A'lvl students deserve a chance to catch the true picture regarding the present and future value of an ACCA? I know that a lot of members here can give their respected and experienced opinion about this topic.By acting as a collective voice for all A'lvls, i urge every member to please help us on this and do not ignore it. Afterall, would'nt you help us make a better choice for our future?!

- saleen.super - 02-23-2010

What exactly do you mean by losing value?
Generally, people talk of losing value in two perspectives; 1) lower salaries and 2) lower demand in industry.

I believe none of these will happen. ACCA has a very broad scope. Its not confined to a particular sector (as CFA is only in asset management, FRM is in risk management etc.). As an accountant one can serve in each and every field and sector, from non profit organizations to multinational corporations, from government to private organizations and from educational institutions to hospitals etc. All firms regardless of the industry and sector they move in require the services of accountants. So in Pakistan it has a very wide scope.

Since it is an internationally recognized qualification therefore, it has great scope abroad as well.

So I don't really feel that value will be lost but, however, competition will increase and only the best will survive.


- Dard - 02-23-2010

Agreed with saleen. Competition is and will be very tough among individuals of the same and different qualifications. Only the very best will get through.

- lost - 02-23-2010

MRA between ACCA and HKICPA (Hong Kong) was terminated by HKICPA on 30 June 2005

A mutual recognition agreement existed between ACCA and the New Zealand Institute of Chartered Accountants (NZICA). This was terminated by NZICA on 1 January 2003.

Colorado State (US) Board is no longer accepting Association of Chartered Certified Accountants (ACCA) certificates.

MRA between ACCA and CGA (Canada) will be expired on 31 Dec 2011. I hope CGA Canada will definitely refuse to renew this agreement. As i have no clue. Future is uncertain

It is assessed as sufficient qualification for Migration purpose in Australia but Australian employers don't even know about ACCA. They do prefer local CPA and CA (ICAA). Theres no MRA of ACCA in Australian between Australian local bodies

I personally know ACCA affiliates of Pakistani origin in UK are working in Chicken Shops or Stores like Tesco/Bestway as a security guards. No firm wants to recruit South Asians they usually prefer fresh candidates (esp with British Passport) not affiliates. Pakistani Experience in UK is being counted as zero experience no matter you have 10 years of experience.

I think it has never had any good image anywhere except Middle East.
UK/Ireland are good for Europeans.

I think members of ICAEW can claim ACA as a globally recognized qualification and ICAEW is the member of Global Accounting Alliance.
It has MRA with following institutes and members of ICAEW can enjoy membership of Reciprocal Bodies (subject to requirements by institutes)

American Institute of Certified Public Accountants (AICPA)
Canadian Institute of Chartered Accountants (CICA)
Hong Kong Institute of Certified Public Accountants (HKICPA)
Institute of Chartered Accountants in Australia (ICAA)
Institute of Chartered Accountants in Ireland (ICAI)
Institute of Chartered Accountants of Scotland (ICAS)
Japanese Institute of Certified Public Accountants (JICPA)
New Zealand Institute of Chartered Accountants (NZICA)
South African Institute of Chartered Accountants (SAICA)

ACCA is competitor of ICAEW and list of above bodies.


Yes ACCA is recognized in following countries. But think who would like to work in following countries as a Pakistani. I think Pakistan is far better market than following countries

Ghana ([Institute of Chartered Accountants of Ghana])
Botswana (Botswana Institute of Accountants);
Egypt (The Egyptian Society of Accountants & Auditors);
Ethiopia (The Ethiopian Professional Association of Accountants and Auditors);
Lesotho (Lesotho Institute of Accountants);
Malawi (The Society of Accountants in Malawi);
Mauritius (The National Equivalence Council of Mauritius);
Nigeria (Institute of Chartered Accountants of Nigeria);
Sierra Leone (Institute of Chartered Accountants of Sierra Leone);
Swaziland (Swaziland Institute of Accountants);
Zambia (Zambia Institute of Chartered Accountants);
Tanzania (National Board of Accountants and Auditors).


As far as Value of ACCA in Pakistan is concerned, i think every body knows about it very well.





- Dard - 02-23-2010

Kindly let us know who are those ACCA affiliates working in shops and their respective circumstances

- Greatkhans - 02-23-2010

Hi Lost,

Apart from your claims, you have wonderful knowledge about ACCA recognition. You did a lot of research. I think there is an acute demand for accounting professional in Pakistan and will grow in future. In population of 160 million, we have less than 10,000 professional accountants. So the future of ACCAs is not as horrible as you think.

Regards,

GREAT KHANS


- Toronto_Boy - 02-23-2010

Dear

See a quick reply in bold of your points.

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, san" id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by lost</i>
<br />MRA between ACCA and HKICPA (Hong Kong) was terminated by HKICPA on 30 June 2005

A mutual recognition agreement existed between ACCA and the New Zealand Institute of Chartered Accountants (NZICA). This was terminated by NZICA on 1 January 2003.

<b>Though you wrote about MRAs lost in 2003 and 2005, but did not bother to write about NEW MRAs started since.</b>

Colorado State (US) Board is no longer accepting Association of Chartered Certified Accountants (ACCA) certificates.

<b>At-least untill recently ACCA was accepted to write Colorado CPA. ICAEW (to whom you are praising) was not even acceptable to ANY CPA board when ACCA WAS. Dear see at the following link, UKs ICAEW is also not included and accepted to Colorado Board.</b> https//nasbalicensingservices.nasbatools.com/display_page?id=190

MRA between ACCA and CGA (Canada) will be expired on 31 Dec 2011. <b>I hope CGA Canada will definitely refuse to renew this agreement.</b> As i have no clue. Future is uncertain.

<b>First, you did not write about new MRA established in 2007, hoping CGA definitely refuse to renew. Is this what you hope. Amazing eh. Could you please let us know how you can provide such assurance statements about future events which in your own words are uncertain. Now I would say too amazing eh. </b>

It is assessed as sufficient qualification for Migration purpose in Australia but Australian employers don't even know about ACCA. They do prefer local CPA and CA (ICAA). Theres no MRA of ACCA in Australian between Australian local bodies.

<b>In every country employers prefer local designations over foreign. Do you mean Australian employers prefer ICAEW over ICAA. Now I would say very amazing eh.</b>

I personally know ACCA affiliates of Pakistani origin in UK are working in Chicken Shops or Stores like Tesco/Bestway as a security guards. No firm wants to recruit South Asian they usually prefer fresh candidates (esp with British Passport) not affiliates. Pakistani Experience in UK is being counted as zero experience no matter you have 10 years of experience.

<b>Some people specially immigrants from all over the world (including South Asians and Pakistanis) work in blue collar jobs in almost every western country with almost all kind of professional and highest education including PhDs. No qualification has exception. It has more relevance with other personal attributes than with qualification. ACCA should not be accused for someone's lackings.</b>

I think it has never had any good image anywhere except Middle East.
UK/Ireland are good for Europeans.

<b>Thank God, at-least you accepted its good image somewhere.</b>

I think members of ICAEW can claim ACA as a globally recognized qualification and ICAEW is the member of Global Accounting Alliance.
It has MRA with following and members can enjoy membership of Reciprocal Bodies (subject to requirements by institutes).

American Institute of Certified Public Accountants (AICPA)

<b>Sorry dear, there is NO MRA between AICPA and ICAEW. AICPA does not even accepts ICAEW members qualification to sit for CPA exams. However, ICAEW has opened the door for AICPA members to attract them for ICAEWs membership. Still, it is one sided provision.</b>

Canadian Institute of Chartered Accountants (CICA)
Hong Kong Institute of Certified Public Accountants (HKICPA)
Institute of Chartered Accountants in Australia (ICAA)
Institute of Chartered Accountants in Ireland (ICAI)
Institute of Chartered Accountants of Scotland (ICAS)
Japanese Institute of Certified Public Accountants (JICPA)
New Zealand Institute of Chartered Accountants (NZICA)
South African Institute of Chartered Accountants (SAICA)

ACCA is competitor of ICAEW and list of above bodies.


Yes ACCA is globally recognized in following countries. But think who would like to work in following countries as a Pakistani. I think Pakistan is far better market than following countries

Ghana ([Institute of Chartered Accountants of Ghana])
Botswana (Botswana Institute of Accountants);
Egypt (The Egyptian Society of Accountants & Auditors);
Ethiopia (The Ethiopian Professional Association of Accountants and Auditors);
Lesotho (Lesotho Institute of Accountants);
Malawi (The Society of Accountants in Malawi);
Mauritius (The National Equivalence Council of Mauritius);
Nigeria (Institute of Chartered Accountants of Nigeria);
Sierra Leone (Institute of Chartered Accountants of Sierra Leone);
Swaziland (Swaziland Institute of Accountants);
Zambia (Zambia Institute of Chartered Accountants);
Tanzania (National Board of Accountants and Auditors).


As far as Value of ACCA in Pakistan is concerned, i think every body knows about it very well.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Rather than saying a glass half full, some people like to say it is half empty.

Regards

- lost - 02-23-2010

I dont want to debate on ACCA vs ICAEW

But remember Actions speak louder than words.
Actions of ICAEW are quite clear.

ICAEW has established good links with international bodies and institutions. Why i have never heard that any MRA between ICAEW and other body/institute is revoked.

Why does it happen with ACCA. ACCA portray itself as a Passport to border less world. But it is not really the same as ACCA advertises.


New MRA with third world countries like in Africa. One should better-off stay at home country rather than working in Africa. (no offense intended to any African country. My words are based on my personal perception of market difference between Pakistan and African countries)


I never said that ICAEW members are preferred over ICAA in Australia. But many employers know about ACA of ICAEW in Australia. ICAEW members can become CA of ICAA under MRA. Opportunities for ACCA in Australia are far less than members of ICAEW (as ICAEW can have ICAA membership through MRA).

Nobody knows about future of MRA between CGA and ACCA. It may be renewed. NZICA and HKICPA had revoked the agreement thus no one can guarantee future of MRA between CGA and ACCA. But the matter of fact is that ICAEW has opened more opportunities for their members than ACCA.

Yes i accept that in every country employers prefer local designations over foreign. This is exactly what i wanted to say. So in Pakistan employer will never prefer ACCA over local designation.

ICAEW members who want to work as accountants in the USA need to sit the CPA examination of the state board where they will work. See the link below. Yes you were right theres no MRA between ICAEW and CPA US.

http//www.icaew.com/index.cfm/route/101531/icaew_ga/en/Home/Join_us/Join_the_ICAEW_as_a_reciprocal_member/Join_another_accountancy_body/Reciprocal_agreements

I am not against ACCA qualification (neither i am pro ICAEW). ACCA shows that it is globally recognized. I have objection here. At-least ACCA should work more on establishing MRA with First World Countries (Whats happening is that bodies are terminating agreements. Thats disgusting)

Mr.Toronto_Boy i do appreciate your reply on my post. That was totally based on my own perception/research and it could be wrong.





- ACCAite - 02-23-2010

wow Lost, you said your HOPING CGA wont renew their MRA with ACCA....no offence brother but u surely sound like a LOW LIFE to me ...

- shani420 - 02-23-2010

Dear lost,
currently ICAP award zero exemptions to NZICA,HKICPA,CPA AUSTRALIA,NIA AUSTRALIA,CA(south africa),CGA CANADA,CMA CANADA,CPA JAPAN,CIPFA uk,India CA and few others.This does not mean that these bodies are worthless.
Obviously ICAEW,ICAA,ICAS,ICAI(IRISH),CICA r the most portable qualifications in the world and NZICA,CA(south africa),HKICPA follow them.
USCPA is similar to ACCA in terms of MRA's.
As far as ACCA, a full member is eligible to join NIA as MNIA(after bridging law and tax) which is third body in AUSTRALIA.
In Newzealand although ACCA is lesser known but it has legal rights for public practice provided the ACCA member have similar rights to practise in their country of origin(if foreigner).

- shani420 - 02-23-2010

Dear lost,
Only few Canadian provincial CA institutes and Australian CA,CPA,ICAI,mexican institute have MRA with USCPA.A new MRA is to start this year with Nzica.They r exempt from 4 cpa papers and r just required to pass a 100 mark qualifying paper.
Another thing dear , USCPA has no MRA with ,ICAS,chinese cpa,SAICA,japanese CPA,HKICPA(hkicpa revoked unilateral recognition of USCPA in june 2005).Even there is no mra with ICAEW(Toronto boy has stated the unilatered route offered by ICAEW).This does not mean that USCPA is not a quality qualification.

- pauliangenius - 02-23-2010

You guys talked a lot but except for some few, all went arguing about Mr.Lost's reply to the topic.I appreciate your knowledge but just summarise the answer to my question(which is infact the topic itself)!

- shani420 - 02-23-2010

Dear Pauliangenius,
In Pakistan ACCA would remain second tier body after ICAP(even maybe ICMAP) in my point of view.They r not going to have same legal rights as r enjoyed by local institutes(Value of ACCA outside Pakistan is another topic).But nobody knows the future except ALLAH!

- [email protected] - 02-23-2010

Hi,
Is B.Sc. Hons. degree from OBU is recognised by US-CPA for admission as a Graduate or not?

- shani420 - 02-23-2010

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, san" id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by [email protected]</i>
<br />Hi,
Is B.Sc. Hons. degree from OBU is recognised by US-CPA for admission as a Graduate or not?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
dear adil,
there r variour state board in USA(about 54 odd).All have varous prerequisites to be eligible to sit in cpa exams.Some states require 150 credit hours and few require 120 credit hours.U should chose a state and then get ur ACCA certificates and other degrees evaluated(few state boards evaluate themselves and few accept evaluation by few US agencies as WES etc).If u fulfill credit hours requirements , u would be allowed to sit in exams , otherwise not.If ur credit hours are less than the threshold , u can complete the deficiency via some bridging course.A 2 years Pakistani Bcom gets about 60 to 65 credit hours.