09-01-2003, 01:27 AM
Hi Raza!
<font color=black>I am glad u r taking the whole situation in lighter vein (mood).
Yeah, i remember those awful days when i used to visit all those govt. offices my self. It was liking visiting a funeral home. The customers were the dead bodies and govt officials like vultures ready to pounce on them. I am glad i am out of that morgue house.</font id=black>
<font color=green>But the theory behind this corruption is a little different in my view. It cann't be blamed soley on our religion. If u see other muslim-arab countries like UAE,Kuwait,Bahrain,Saudi Arabi, of course there is corruption but not to that stinking degree.
However, if u see poor Muslim countries like Indonesia, Pakistan, Bangla Desh than the graph of corruption goes up.
But if we see poor Hindu or Christian countries (for example Phillippines is the only christian country in Asia, corruption is almost identical).</font id=green>
<font color=red>The only exception to this general rule of poverty breeds corruption, is seen in countries with majority chinese population when they were poor (example Singapure, Taiwan, Hong Kong etc). Although Mainland China is rumored to be corrupt as well but final verdict on it is still not out.
Now we in Pakistan have a special case. We have to go deep in Indian subcontinent history for this. I know this is heavy and boring stuff, but those who have passion for it will like it.
Remember 3000 years B.C., India has Mohenjodaro and Harappa. These were original indians. We know they disappear all of a sudden. Many theroies abound for their disappearance. But one suggests that people from Central Asia known as Aryans came over and pushed these people further south. Then there were a wave of foreigners that came to india. Let us start with Mughals in India. When mughals were ruling india, the official language was Farsi rather than urdu or hindi which was more widely spoken than Farsi. So if ordinary pple want some of their work done, they have to deal with govt. in a language that they were not familiar with. This created a need for a middle man who can say write their application in Farsi or talk to the official who speak Farsi as well. Now this middle man needs to be compensated (a genuine charge for services rendered). But over time these middle man became very powerful. The more money was to change hand the more was their cut. So this was the modern beginning of bribery in Indo-Pak.
Later when English came and invented civial service, the problem remained same. Only Farsi was replaced with English. The baboos in govt. offices have control over files. They could prepare a favourable or unfavourable summary for Gora Sahib (who would invariably go with their recommendations). So the clerks and head clerks became all important in govt. offices and court system.
Unfortunaley, independence both for India and Pakistan did not bring a fundamental change. The head of dept was changed from Gora Sahib to Brown Sahib. As u know bad habits die hard.
[purple]My only hope is that with fast changing technologies, we could possibly reduce the number of these infamous baboos. Case in point is the issuance of National I.D Cards. Now my knowledge here is obtained from newspapers as i am not on the ground. But what i read is that this dept has developed a database which is an envy of many developing and even developed nations. They have received requests to export this system to other countries. I know at one time in order to obtain an ID card, u had to go from pillar to post and still had to grease somebody's palms. I hope this system has elimiated this problem.
So u see dear, bribery and corruption are twin evils produced by poverty and history of the place. Religion is less to be blamed for it. Because a Hindu magisterate in India is as corrupt as a Muslim
magisterate in Pakistan.
I hope u read what all i wrote. It wouldn't solve SECP problem but it may bring some perspective to the situation </font id=red>
Take Care
<img src=icon_smile_cool.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_cool.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_cool.gif border=0 align=middle>
Edited by - Pervez on Aug 31 2003 82925 PM
Edited by - Pervez on Aug 31 2003 114703 PM
Edited by - Pervez on Aug 31 2003 114946 PM
Edited by - Pervez on Aug 31 2003 115103 PM
Edited by - Pervez on Aug 31 2003 115917 PM
<font color=black>I am glad u r taking the whole situation in lighter vein (mood).
Yeah, i remember those awful days when i used to visit all those govt. offices my self. It was liking visiting a funeral home. The customers were the dead bodies and govt officials like vultures ready to pounce on them. I am glad i am out of that morgue house.</font id=black>
<font color=green>But the theory behind this corruption is a little different in my view. It cann't be blamed soley on our religion. If u see other muslim-arab countries like UAE,Kuwait,Bahrain,Saudi Arabi, of course there is corruption but not to that stinking degree.
However, if u see poor Muslim countries like Indonesia, Pakistan, Bangla Desh than the graph of corruption goes up.
But if we see poor Hindu or Christian countries (for example Phillippines is the only christian country in Asia, corruption is almost identical).</font id=green>
<font color=red>The only exception to this general rule of poverty breeds corruption, is seen in countries with majority chinese population when they were poor (example Singapure, Taiwan, Hong Kong etc). Although Mainland China is rumored to be corrupt as well but final verdict on it is still not out.
Now we in Pakistan have a special case. We have to go deep in Indian subcontinent history for this. I know this is heavy and boring stuff, but those who have passion for it will like it.
Remember 3000 years B.C., India has Mohenjodaro and Harappa. These were original indians. We know they disappear all of a sudden. Many theroies abound for their disappearance. But one suggests that people from Central Asia known as Aryans came over and pushed these people further south. Then there were a wave of foreigners that came to india. Let us start with Mughals in India. When mughals were ruling india, the official language was Farsi rather than urdu or hindi which was more widely spoken than Farsi. So if ordinary pple want some of their work done, they have to deal with govt. in a language that they were not familiar with. This created a need for a middle man who can say write their application in Farsi or talk to the official who speak Farsi as well. Now this middle man needs to be compensated (a genuine charge for services rendered). But over time these middle man became very powerful. The more money was to change hand the more was their cut. So this was the modern beginning of bribery in Indo-Pak.
Later when English came and invented civial service, the problem remained same. Only Farsi was replaced with English. The baboos in govt. offices have control over files. They could prepare a favourable or unfavourable summary for Gora Sahib (who would invariably go with their recommendations). So the clerks and head clerks became all important in govt. offices and court system.
Unfortunaley, independence both for India and Pakistan did not bring a fundamental change. The head of dept was changed from Gora Sahib to Brown Sahib. As u know bad habits die hard.
[purple]My only hope is that with fast changing technologies, we could possibly reduce the number of these infamous baboos. Case in point is the issuance of National I.D Cards. Now my knowledge here is obtained from newspapers as i am not on the ground. But what i read is that this dept has developed a database which is an envy of many developing and even developed nations. They have received requests to export this system to other countries. I know at one time in order to obtain an ID card, u had to go from pillar to post and still had to grease somebody's palms. I hope this system has elimiated this problem.
So u see dear, bribery and corruption are twin evils produced by poverty and history of the place. Religion is less to be blamed for it. Because a Hindu magisterate in India is as corrupt as a Muslim
magisterate in Pakistan.
I hope u read what all i wrote. It wouldn't solve SECP problem but it may bring some perspective to the situation </font id=red>
Take Care
<img src=icon_smile_cool.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_cool.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_cool.gif border=0 align=middle>
Edited by - Pervez on Aug 31 2003 82925 PM
Edited by - Pervez on Aug 31 2003 114703 PM
Edited by - Pervez on Aug 31 2003 114946 PM
Edited by - Pervez on Aug 31 2003 115103 PM
Edited by - Pervez on Aug 31 2003 115917 PM
