Proud to be a Pakistani

ehson · 06-01-2005, 09:55 PM

<blockquote id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Desert Sleet
 I totally agree with your views regarding Caliphate system.
We reject the smug arrogance which presumes that if you are anti-democratic you are totalitarian. We are against human beings making laws.
During the 1300 years of Islam being implemented as asystem of life, there were no world wars, no mass genocide, no mass sexual deviancy, no extremely high crime rate, etc. As soon as the Khilafah was abolished, we had world wars, the Cold War, increase in crime and sexual deviancies all over the world, the advent of plagues and diseases like AIDS, and so on.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Not to forget during the time of Khilafa non Muslims used to fight in the Muslim armies becuase they feared that if Muslims lose a system worse than the one they were living in would become dominant and they might lose thier rights and might face problems.

<blockquote id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Desert Sleet
 And I presume that the perpetual conflict that mired Islamic history was the reason why the Islamic world was the pinnacle of human civilization for centuries (a documented fact that is acknowledged by all credible historians, including non-Muslim ones). And so many nations and people embraced Islam and till today hold on to Islam Shia and Sunni because there is something in the human being that attracts him to civilizations steeped in bloodshed and turmoil.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">I'm sorry but english is not very good. I couldnt properly understand what you wanted to say in your last sentence. Would kindly elaborate/rephrase.

<blockquote id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Desert Sleet
 If one goes beyond simple common sense and actually screens these historical accounts, one will find that they are nothing but gross exaggerations, twisted facts, and outright lies fabricated by sources who have no credibility, and these historical accounts were magnified by the Orientalists (who added their own twisted jargon) and incorporated into the educational systems in the Muslim lands.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"> I asume this para and the history you are reffering relates to the unclease statement which I've highlighted above.

<blockquote id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Desert Sleet
 That aside, we should not expect that the Islamic history be a utopian one because history is an account of the actions of human beings, and human beings are not perfect. Therefore, it is expected for the history to have periods of progress and stagnation, prosperity and regression. And the Islamic history is no different. Also, the history is not a measure of the correctness of the system itself. The Islamic system is correct because it is the system from Allah the Creator and is established upon the correct idea, which is the Islamic belief. Therefore, the Islamic system provides the correct mechanism to organize the life and address the problems and issues of human beings. Allah provided us with the correct mechanism, and He illustrated to us how to correctly apply this mechanism through the example of the Prophet (saaws). If, after all of this, the human being fails to utilize this mechanism properly (or, as in the case of today, refuses to use this mechanism altogether), then we have only ourselves to blame for the outcome.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">This once again takes us to the start of our discussion where you wrote to me that I shall dream on achieving what I want to achieve. And I on the other hand reffered that It might take long, longer than one can imagine right now but at least we should try to achieve it. And Since this is the only solution that I see, I therefore advocate this and point out people who take sides with the current or the previous rulers of Pakistan. To me all are equal, no good for nations to rule.

<blockquote id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Desert Sleet
 Even in the absence of any divine guidance, human beings on their own can figure out that they require a system to live by.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"> Totally agree that human beings can "figure out that they require a system to live by". But unfortunately they cant (or at least not yet have been able to) make a system that works as well as the system of Khilafa.

<blockquote id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Desert Sleet
 And since the beginning of civilization, various statesmen, thinkers, philosophers, and intellectuals, have proposed a myriad of systems to address the human being and to organize the human life. However, because these systems are all man-made systems that stem from man-made ideas, then all of them are incorrect and incapable of addressing the human being in the correct and productive manner. Recently, humanity has suffered under the Communist system and continues to suffer under the Capitalist system.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">And the socialistic system had its sufferings too.

<blockquote id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Desert Sleet
 And it is our responsibility as Muslims to implement the Islamic system in its entirety - not only because it is the correct system for human beings, but because this responsibility is an order from Allah (swt).<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"> ), totally agree with you on this point and that is like a period to the argument. But I wanted to have a approach which would disclose the benifit of this system over the other systems. I did so becuase I've came across many people who would prefer to have a materialist view(weighing benifits and disadvantages) rather than accepting it as an order from Allah(swt). I mean you can understand by looking around you. How many people do actually fullfill thier obligatory duties (ordered by Allah (swt))

<blockquote id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Desert Sleet
 âA democracy is nothing more than mob rule, where fifty-one percent of the people may take away the rights of the other forty-nine.â - Thomas Jefferson <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"> ), very good quotation you've chosen, my friend.

<blockquote id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Desert Sleet
 Until every public school can provide Harvard-quality courses, I don't think democracy will work exactly as planned.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">I'd still say even if the Harvard-quality courses are provided in every school of the world you'd still have problems. You see Harvard, certianly is a great place to learn but you see you'd find many things in Harvard which are dont "just to benifit Harvard" regardless of what impact it has. And there is a ex-Pakistani PM who entered into Harvard not becuause of the qualification that PM possesed at the age of entering Harvard. Rather influence was used to get that PM in. This fact is taken by a book writting on the ex PM of Pakistan. I'd preffer not write the name or the book or the author. The point i wanted to make here is that even icons like Harvard have 'some' curruption. After all they are run with the fear of Creator and the life after death. )

<blockquote id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Desert Sleet
 The whole thing is basically about the people being educated enough to make sound choices, as opposed to today's Pakistan where the level of education is way below where it should be resulting in authority figures trampling all over civil rights and the people and just about everything democratic. You need people that can withstand a plane crashing into a building without throwing every last one of their rights out of the window just so they can be "safe."<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">"interesting" approach

<blockquote id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Desert Sleet
 Its always nice to have a conversation with a knowledgeable person like you.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
"As for me, all I know is I know nothing." SOCRATES
I'm just another ignorant. Its just that since I feel conviced about s'thing I speak out. ) Pray for me.

P.S. incase you dont mind Desert Sleet would you email me your brief introduction. I'd have initiated but I thought you might not want to do it. )