Examiner comments-a fraud

maani · 01-03-2005, 05:31 PM

Azeem bhai...ICAP never grades the students who completely passed the module...
they grades those students only who failed to pass...so that they can know what have they done in the exams...

Ace

Azeem Shah Khan · 01-03-2005, 11:25 PM

if i m not wrong it does issue exemptions to candidates. i know if a person passes the stage he gets PASS otherwise he receives this silly grading. grade system is misleading, it gives you a range of marks say Grade B is between 50-60 but you would never know if your hypothesis is correct.

if their existence examination system is PERFECT then why is it switching to the new system.

best regards

"You don't get to choose how you're going to die. Or when. You can only decide how you're going to live. Now."

bilal azhar · 01-04-2005, 06:58 AM

ICAP is not moving to a new grading or marking system.it has only declared publicaly that passing criteria for all papers is 50 percent.other than that there will be no change.no marks will be issued to candidates and no grades will be given to students who pass the exams.50 percent ratio is only declared to enable the failing or refered students to assess their performance.some students defame icap after failing by saying that they attempted all the paper correctly and yet they failed.
secondly,if according to u no employer ask this ridiculous question of total percentage,then whats the reason to issue marks to those students who passes the exams(ACCA).thats where the difference lies between icap and acca authorities and that is why there is no match between an ACA and an ACCA in pakistan.I dont think there is a single professional employer in pakistan who would prefer ACCA over ACA.IT does not make any sense to study TAX,LAW,AND accounting standards of england sitting in pakistan.

bilal

Azeem Shah Khan · 01-04-2005, 07:16 AM

Dear Bilal

thanks for correcting me. So ICAP is still using the same outdated system. Whats the point declaring the 50 marks Pass or Fail criteria when the individual marks are not published.

Issuing marks to Pass candidates may encourage them to do even better at higher levels plus it may also motivate them to SPECIALISE in that particular subject. ACCA believes (and rightly so) that its examination system is CRYSTAL CLEAR thats why they publish individual marks. ICAP can do the same to prevent students defaming its examination systems credibility.

i am afraid thats not the distinction between the two institutes, in Pakistan there are multiple factors and YES one of the reasons is the fact that ACCA grads study UK variants. ACCA has now offered Pakistan variant for Pakistani students and I am sure within no time such unrealistic distinctions will vanish away.

Kind Regards

"You don't get to choose how you're going to die. Or when. You can only decide how you're going to live. Now."

bilal azhar · 01-04-2005, 07:43 AM

i told u that the only reason to declare this 50 percent criteria is to rectify the perception of the students and the general public that icap doen not pass even those students who get 70 percent marks in a without choice difficult paper.
As far as specilization is concerned,once u pass papers like Advanced accounting,advanced auditing,corporate law,advanced taxation,management accounting etc of icap i can assure u with guarantee that ur knowledge is equal to,if not greater,to a person who has a phd degree in any of the above subjects.i mean,if u have studied all the IAS AND ISA and all the corporate laws,what else left to be read.

bilal

Azeem Shah Khan · 01-04-2005, 09:46 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>i told u that the only reason to declare this 50 percent criteria is to rectify the perception of the students and the general public that icap doen not pass even those students who get 70 percent marks in a without choice difficult paper.
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

Dear Bilal

I think you are missing the point i am trying to make. ICAP can still fail a student who gets 70% marks unless it publishes the individual marks. For eg I appeared in an exam and after considering individual questions and my answers to them I believe that i should get around 60-65 marks, but when the result comes i see my name in the list of failures, i have no idea how can i be given less than 50 marks in that particular paper but since i have not been given the exact marks i will keep on repeating the same old story that ICAP's examination system is flawed.

i was a student of ACCA, i m telling you the truth when i used to come out of the examination hall i always knew straightaway if i have passed the paper or not, and to my surprise my marks were always within a deviation of + or - 5, now this is what i call a CRYSTAL CLEAR system and i see no harm adopting this system where i (being a student) have full confidence on my Institute. i have no fear in my heart that no matter how much i study i might be failed just because of the market pressure.

now ask yourself and your fellow students (if you are/were a student of ICAP) doesn't this fear exist in their hearts??? it does.......

now let me tell you another story. i am an ex-student of ICMAP. i passed upto Professional 2 in first go except 1 paper which was FINANCIAL ACCOUNTING in Foundation 2. i got referral in that paper. you know what bilal, i was expecting a permanent exemption in that paper, financial accounting has always been my strong point and i always scored flying numbers in financial accounting. My elder brother is an ACMA, he sometimes used to discuss my paper with me (as we were allowed to take the question papers with us), he was also damn sure that i haven't done any blunder in that paper and i should be able to score atleast 80 in that paper........sadly i sat that paper again and although i didn't do better this time i got a PERMANENT EXEMPTION. I am sure you would have heard similar stories from other students as well. My self-analysis could be wrong that time but why it always proved correct in ACCA.......

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>As far as specilization is concerned,once u pass papers like Advanced accounting,advanced auditing,corporate law,advanced taxation,management accounting etc of icap i can assure u with guarantee that ur knowledge is equal to,if not greater,to a person who has a phd degree in any of the above subjects.i mean,if u have studied all the IAS AND ISA and all the corporate laws,what else left to be read.

bilal
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

my dear friend,

my normal reaction to such statements is usually very strong (and harsh for some people), since i have made a new year resolution to become a better human being and after being pointed out by some of the members here to curtail my aggression, i would only suggest you to please come out from this FANTASY WORLD.........i won't say no more and click the "post new reply" icon as it is best in OUR favour.

Please keep your assurance and guarantee with yourself, it is surely gonna help you out in future!!!

i wish you & ICAP all the best

kind regards

"You don't get to choose how you're going to die. Or when. You can only decide how you're going to live. Now."

bilal azhar · 01-05-2005, 06:44 AM

Dear Azeem,just for ur information i am a student of Module D of CA.i got a refer in IT of module D in last attempt.i have cleared the rest of 12 papers of CA inter.I got refer in M.LAW,and IT so far.
Icap never ever fails a student having 60-65 marks.if thats the case then i am fail in all other twelve papers as well.The passing percentage according to those who have qualified(some of my teacher)is even less than 50.i knew that in some of my papers like economics,cost accounting,IT1, my marks would be, at the most, around
45-55 marks and yet i got passed.
THE main reason of issuing this 50 percent ratio was that poeple like u cry after failing and instead of blaming themselves,blame the icap.THE PAPers in which i got refer,my marks were definitely below 45.your estimate of 60-65 marks is based on ur own judgement. The solution of icap questions is usually not the one we think it is.

LAstly,ur statements are contradicting.own one hand u say that employer dont see marks percentage once u have acca degree,they only see aptitude,knowledge etc and on the other hand u say that marks can be used to speclize in particular subject.speclization can be done in ACCA PASSED papers but once u have passed ca no speclization is required.e.g if u have passed corporate law paper of module E,it means u have studied the whole ordinance,its rules,and there are round about 10 or more laws in this paper.after going through all this what further u can study ,i just dont know.

ur are senior than me,so dont mind to be harsh.one advice(although i am not capable of it) to u is "not to say or comment on any thing u dont know". i am sure the above post would make u angry and i am expecting a very harsh reply.

bilal

Azeem Shah Khan · 01-06-2005, 04:55 AM

my dear friend

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote<hr height=1 noshade id=quote> ur are senior than me,so dont mind to be harsh.one advice(although i am not capable of it) to u is "not to say or comment on any thing u dont know". i am sure the above post would make u angry and i am expecting a very harsh reply.

<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

thanks for considering me a senior and many thanks for the advise, you are indeed capable of giving advise. no i m not going for a harsh route this time as i do it for people who try to be over smart. i dont like to comment on something i dont know and infact i thanked you in my earlier post for correcting me.

i was commenting on the exam result systems of diff accounting bodies and my emphasis was on ICAP, ICMAP and ACCA. you corrected me on ICAP and i know ICMAP and ACCA's exam results policy, i dont see anything wrong commenting on it.

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>LAstly,ur statements are contradicting.own one hand u say that employer dont see marks percentage once u have acca degree,they only see aptitude,knowledge etc and on the other hand u say that marks can be used to speclize in particular subject.speclization can be done in ACCA PASSED papers but once u have passed ca no speclization is required.e.g if u have passed corporate law paper of module E,it means u have studied the whole ordinance,its rules,and there are round about 10 or more laws in this paper.after going through all this what further u can study ,i just dont know.

<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

so you are trying to say that CA is the ULTIMATE qualification, once you do CA you become a MASTER of ALL since you can't see any area left behind. bilal i would strongly recommend you not to say this thing to anyone. i always thought all those qualifications like CTA (Chartered Tax Adviser), CFA (Chartered Financial Analyst), PhDs in individual subjects are there for a purpose but NOW after knowing the fact that all i want is to become a CA and i will master everything has completely changed my mind........thanks for your insight.........you definitely deserve to comment on things you know.......(i hope you were just kidding when you said after ACCA PASSED papers you need specialisation and after CA you dont.....you are trying to be over smart.........so be careful!!!)

i am still trying to find where i CONTRADICTED my own statements. Yes i did say employers are more interested in what a CANDIDATE knows than his/her exam marks, and Yes i also said that marks can motivate candidates to specialise in those subjects (assuming they get higher marks because of their interest in those subjects and their natural inclination)...........WHERE IS THE CONTRADICTION???
in first statement i am talking about the employers perception about the candidate in the later statement i am discussing the psychological effect the exam marks can have on students' careers......once again WHERE IS THE CONTRADICTION???

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>Icap never ever fails a student having 60-65 marks.if thats the case then i am fail in all other twelve papers as well.The passing percentage according to those who have qualified(some of my teacher)is even less than 50.i knew that in some of my papers like economics,cost accounting,IT1, my marks would be, at the most, around
45-55 marks and yet i got passed <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

now i won't say you are contradicting your statements here, rather i would say you are supporting my point of view. by reading the above statement we can surely say that ICAP's exam system is not JUST. although they say that they have a 50% pass criteria but in reality it is much below that (something NOT to be proud of). Now how you are supporting my point, you said you were expecting your marks between 45-55 and yet you passed that paper leaving you in doubt whether you got over 50 or under 50, presumably you got over 50 thats why you passed but even then it left a doubt thats why you mentioned it here and thats the point i was trying to make earlier that publishing marks DONOT leave any doubt and give students the much needed confidence in the fairness of the system.

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>THE main reason of issuing this 50 percent ratio was that poeple like u cry after failing and instead of blaming themselves,blame the icap.THE PAPers in which i got refer,my marks were definitely below 45.your estimate of 60-65 marks is based on ur own judgement. The solution of icap questions is usually not the one we think it is. <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

i was never a student of ICAP!!! so there is no question of crying about it. the only paper i REFERRED (not failed) was of ICMAP's where SURPRISINGLY my answers were not TOO different from my brother's and my LECTURER's explanations to that paper and there was no question about 60-65 marks - i was expecting over 80. this is a mystery for me how on earth i could be referred in that paper.........i may be wrong in my assessment but this could only be verified had i be given my marks. secondly my assessments never went wrong in ACCA!!!

hope this will clear some of my points, i am glad to know you have almost completed your CA Inter and i wish you all the best for your future exams.

Best Regards

"You don't get to choose how you're going to die. Or when. You can only decide how you're going to live. Now."

bilal azhar · 01-06-2005, 06:51 AM

Thanks Azeem for every thing u said.
And by the way what further specilization are u doing based on ur marks.

"ITS EASIER SAID THAN DONE".

bilal

Azeem Shah Khan · 01-06-2005, 06:54 AM

Dear Bilal

I ve got a couple of options with me, I will probably go for CTA.

Regards

"You don't get to choose how you're going to die. Or when. You can only decide how you're going to live. Now."

n/a5 · 01-06-2005, 10:21 AM

hey every 1 . Closed this topic till next examination .
good luck every1

HEART BEATS ( try try again )

Goodman · 01-06-2005, 08:54 PM

Hey Azeem

I just wanted to draw your attention to another area. somebody was telling me that State bank of Pakistan has a scheme which works as follows

You obtain admission in PhD (finance) in one of the three institutions (cambridge, oxford and LSE) and they award you a scholarship for the term of PhD on the condition that when you qualify you work at least five years as Deputy Director in State Bank

If anybody is interested, I can find out more details about the scheme or you can contact SBP directly. IF anybody has the knowledge of the scheme please give details.

derivativetrader · 01-06-2005, 09:40 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
Hey Azeem

I just wanted to draw your attention to another area. somebody was telling me that State bank of Pakistan has a scheme which works as follows

You obtain admission in PhD (finance) in one of the three institutions (cambridge, oxford and LSE) and they award you a scholarship for the term of PhD on the condition that when you qualify you work at least five years as Deputy Director in State Bank

If anybody is interested, I can find out more details about the scheme or you can contact SBP directly. IF anybody has the knowledge of the scheme please give details.

<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

Goodman, the scheme is not just limited to top 3 UK universities but is also open for admission in other top univesities in other countries, like Ivy League in US and a couple of Canadian too.

The grant isn't that much so those of us who are not 'single' may not find the total scholarship quite appropriate considering London is a top expensive city to live in.

Anyways, since I am at LSE and have ample experience of Oxbridge too, so if anybody have any queries about programmes and living in Cambridge, Oxford or London, please don't hesitate to ask.

I may also be able to forward any 'grant' specific queries to people who are at LSE on this scheme.

Regards,
DT

Azeem Shah Khan · 01-06-2005, 10:40 PM

Thanks Goodman and DT

i was not aware of this scheme. if handy please forward details on my id [email protected]

i will check SBP's website as well for the details

DT which course are you inn at LSE???

kind regards & thanks again

azeem

"You don't get to choose how you're going to die. Or when. You can only decide how you're going to live. Now."

derivativetrader · 01-06-2005, 11:22 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>

i was not aware of this scheme. if handy please forward details on my id [email protected]

<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

Azeem - Most welcome, please find below the link for this scholarhsip by SBP.

http//www.sbp.org.pk/scholarships/scholarships/index.htm

I'll also email you one too.

DT