AUNTI MAULANA ABDUL-AZEEZ - INCIDENT OF SHAME

[kamranACA]

Dear Miss Coollioness,

Thank you very much for giving so much amount of time to read out my lengthy post and agreeing the material points.

Best regards,

Kamran.

[Cool Lioness]

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Tahoma, Arial" id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by kamranACA</i>
<br />Dear Miss Coollioness,

Thank you very much for giving so much amount of time to read out my lengthy post and agreeing the material points.

Best regards,

Kamran.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Does it mean you are only thankful to me coz i read your lengthy post and agreed to main points but what i said, you are not agree with them? [(]

[Muhammad Amir]

<b><center>DEAR MEMBERS AFTER SOME ALLEGATIONS ON ME AND MY OTHER MUSLIM BROTHERS IT IS MY RESPONSIBILITY TO POST HERE SOME FACTS TO REBUTT KAMRANACA'S BASELESS SORDID STATEMENTS SO IT IS MY REQUEST ESPACIALLY TO THOSE WHO ARE INVOLVED IN THIS TOPIC THAT PLEASE READ THIS POST FULLY IT WILL TAKE YOU 3 TO 4 MINUTES BUT WILL DEFINATELY BE HELPFUL IN COPING WITH PROPAGANDITS AND DUSHMANAN-E-DEEN</center></b>

Dear MOHADIS-E-AZAM,MUJADID-E-ROSHAN KHAYAL DEEN,FAQEH-E-AZAM KAMRANACA SAHIB;

I Recommand you to remove your postfix of ACA and insert A Prefix which I had used in above line.
Your Interpertations regarding a HIDIS-E-MUBARIKA that "ELM HASIL KARO CHAHAY IS KAY LIAY TUMHAY CHEEN HI KYUN NA JANA PARAY" is very very ludicrous and I will not appreciate your self obtained knowledge of ISLAM because I don't think that you have obtained ELM-E-HADIS from any Mullah/Taliban thats why i said it as self Obtained...In this hadis your interpertation that go to China and get "DUNYAWI ELM" is absolutly absurd interpertation,actually by this hadis Our Prophet Hazrat Muhammad(Sallalahu-Allihe-Wassallam) highlighted the importance of "DEENE ELM" that Go to obtain ELM-E-DEEN in any condition even if you need to travel far and wide....
Actually my Dear MOHADIS-E-AZAM it happens when one do not have any knowledge of truth and he propagates his self made truth which is so called Roshan Khyal Version of Islam...And It also happens when one did not obtain DEENE ELM from any MADDRSA...In Religious Parlance There are two things one is <b>"ELM and Other is HUNNAR"</b> What ever DEENE knowledge you obtain is ELM and whatever Dunyawi Knowledge you obtain is Hunnar because your subsequent task after DUNYAWI HUNNAR is to make money like 3 cars and to get every luxury in your life.......So my dear i invite you to write a TAFSEER of your Interpertations of Islam because all roshan Khayals of your catagory will appreciate your struggle...By the way this had already done by people of your sect like Sir Syed and Others i will not mention some other names here...Dear MOHADIS-E-AZAM and SHAIKH-UL-HADIS you also alleged that Mullahs are involved in Homosexual activities your this statement will be a Hujjat at DOOM DAY(Youm-e-Akhirah) against you.......You will be answerable to ALLAH(S.W.T) for this allegation against venerable personalities,TAHAJUD GUZAR,DAI-E-ISLAM people....I don't know what lead you to allege these Innocent poeple might be your metal dis-order...And<b> If any PATHAN has done anything wrong with you i strongely condemn this QABEH act but it does not mean to allege others as well</b>....In some other threads you said that you were enjoying MOUSEQEE(Music) which is "ZINA KA MANTAR" and you are now alleging TAHAJUD GUJAR PEOPLE...<b>You also alleged me that I decleared BENAZIR AS KAFIR so my dear you can check my whole post I never decleared BENAZIR AS KAFIR because ALLAH(S.W.T) will provide MUNAFIQEEN a place in DOZAKH
which is "HAWIA" a very last partition of DOZAKH..</b>I am no one to declear anyone Munafiq as Kafir how could i be even after knowing that ALLAH(S.W.T) has prepared "DARDNAK AZAB" for the (MUNAFIQEEN).....A very DARDNAKK AZAB for MUNAFIEQEEN than that of KUFFARS.........In your this post along with other posts you always try to degrade Mullahs and always use Impudent statements by declearing them as Illetrate people this also shows your level of
knowledge, but as far as my knowledge is concerned which I never obtained form TV channels(Because i never whatch TV[SHAITANE DABBA])but from other sources is that these Mullahs/Talibans are also Doctors,Engineers,Architechts,Scientists and other highly qualified
Professionals....Actually my dear, people like you and other Roshan KHAYALs think that Mullahs are JAHILS and they don't know about the pros and cons of modern world requirements... The difference between Roshan KHAYALS and INTAHA PASANDS is that INTAHA PASANDS always ask ALLAH for HELP and they always think that If there is anything wrong is just because of our A'AMALS we have left "JEHAD", when UMMAT-E-MUSLIMA was doing JEHAD fighting with KUFFARS AND MUNAFIQEENS they were at the top of the nations and nearly 50% of the world was under there influance I am talking about DOOR-E-FAROUQE(Razi-Allah-Ta'ala UNHUO)..I never meant to say that Islam is spread through TALWAR...<b>ISLAM PYAR SAY(DAWAT-O-TABLEGHE SAY) PHELA AUR TALWAR SAY MAZBOOT HOA</b> Islam kay 3 fundametal ASSAS hann
<b>
1)DAWT-E-DENN-E-HAQ(TABLEGHE)
2)JIZIA/TAX of using ALLAH's(S.W.T) NEMATAIN(If First option declined)
3)JEHAD(IF KUFFARS SHOW THEIR HAD DHARMIE)
</b>
And remember that JEHAD could only be possible in leadership of HUKMARAN-E-WAQT every one can't do Jehad by their ownself...Now a days JEHAD is FARZ on all of US because KUFFARS are killing our
Muslim Brothers in Afghanistan,IRAQ,BOSNIA,KASHMIR,BAIT-UL-MAQDAS and in other areas as well but the GUNNAH of Not doing JEHAD is on "HUKMARAN-E-WAQT KAY SAR" but whenever he(HUKMARAN-E-WAQT)
call us to do jehad and we do not say "LABAIK" on his statement then we are invloved in GUNAH-E-KABIRAH....I also want to tell you one more thing here that Mr KAMRANACA also badly and Impudently degrade
PATHAN QUOM....I don't know the reason behind this however whenever i went to any IJTAMA like in RAIWAND or other places I seen nearly 80% pathans there just because of their love with ISLAM,so one person can not decleare whole QUOM as sinfull if any one person of that QUOM has infringed his rights badly...I am not a pathan instead I am URDU SPEAKING but I really fully respect Pathan Quom because these are the people who have full DEEN DARI in them I have never seen that much DEEN DARI in other QUOMS even not in ARABS(now a days)....Mr KAMRAN also abused BAITH-ULLAH-MAEHSOOD SHAHEED(Rehmatullah Alleh) by declearing him as illetrate if kamranACA is having a benchmark of literacy i ask him to tell me the maximum limit to be a litterate person then I will show him those names those are also litterate Mujahids...
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In the end My message to all of my Muslim Brothers and Sisters is that Please! Please! Please! don't come under Influance of ROSHAN KHAYALS because they are DUSHMAN of your EMANs Please! Please! Please! save your Emans...here i will quote a Sher of HAZRAT Moulana Saeed Ahmed Khan Sahib(Rehmatullah Alleh) which has also used By BHAI JUNAID JAMSHEED Sahib in his Natt....

(HIFAZAT KARO APNAY EMAN O DEEN KI
ZAMANA WOH AISA AJJEB AA RAHA HAY)

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And also remember one more thing INSHA-ALLAH FATAH HAQ KI HI HOGI AUR BATIL KO MOUN KI KHANI PARAY GI KYUN KAY ABHI ALLAH(S.W.T) KAY NEEK BANDAY AUR MUJAHEDEEN-E-KIRAM ZINDAH HAN JO KAY HAR MAHAZ PAR KUFFAR SAY BARSAR-E-PAYKAR HANN BAS APP TAMAM LOG ALLAH KAY IN NEEK BANDOON KAY LIAY DUA KARAIN....

Regards,
Muhammad Amir

[kamranACA]

Dear Coollioness,

I dont materially differ from your opinion and I think we have reached a conclusion. Government has to play a positive and active role to boost up education, economic and financial progress, scientifical research, and unity among the citizens for making them ready to face all the upcoming challenges of advanced world.

Basic necessities of life should be distributed among the citizens as much possible on equality basis so that the sense of being deprived of must not evolve in any specific sect.

Government must not kill its own citizens without any court trial and justifiably proving the allegations on any one accused. We should have our own policies and diplomacy must be used at maximum to keep ourselves on our own path without opting any militancy or threat of war.

Our next generation should be fully educated specially the daughters of this nation who are normally ignored by us.


As far as above post of Mr. Amir is concerned, I have no grouse on him as I know he is a person of very much immature attitude, tiny mind, narrow vision, and short temper. He has so many times become personalised with various members of this forum. He has tried fully to abuse me in above post through his various immature efforts. I must not have to use indecent language for him becoz I know his mindset and mental level.

Further in religious matters, if some one misbehaves or abuses me, I dont have to reply him in similar way as Hazrat Ali Karamallah Wajho has set an example of letting a Kafir go who Naoozbillah spitted on his Chehra-e-Mubarik. I know Amir is a muslim and I can by no means call him otherwise. I just have to follow the example set for us. I once again let him go without answering his childish doctor quack sort of post which might be very much Islamic in some others' view.

I also know that we are ordered not to mess up with JAAHILs and we have been asked to offer them a SALAM. (See Holy Quran).

I accordingly offer a SALAM to Amir.

Miss coollioness,

Once you asked me about what is Mullahism. See above post of Amir. Might it be of some use to clarify and understand the term. Mullahs' one main feature is that they dont understand the very easily understandable things and very soon become personalised.

May God save these rigids from destruction, becoz any such destruction will also be extremely painful for us. Remember perished things cannot be preserved. May God save all of us.

I am a very humble creature of Allah and as such the ser-names used by Amir have nothing to do for me.

Best regards,

Kamran.

[Imran]

Dear All

After reading the post of senior brother Mr. Kamran not only that i was greatly shocked about the ideas of my ROSHAN KHAYAL BROTHER but was much surprised that how some one declare himself Muslim after blaiming the (Ulama s) leaders of Muslims. I repeat that no one specially with limited knowledge can blame any of his Muslim brother. First of all the observation i have made about MR Kamran as per his own introduciton of himself. HE IS AMONGST THOSE PEOPLE WHO HAS ATTAINED SOMETHING (NODULATIA) IN SHORT PERIOD WITH HIS STRUGGLE AND CONSIDER THEMSELVE THE SUCCESSFUL CREATURE OF EARTH AND ARE DUNIYA PARAST AND ARE AMONGST THOSE WHO CONSIDER THEMSELVES THE MISTAKE PROOF(KOYE KAY MANDAK). These people have very limited knowledge about deen and consider themselves scholars. I think if you write one thousand words in favour of Claiming night as day you are unsuccessfull as night will remain night and day is day.

No Muslim can bear any harsh word against their Scholars Ulama. These are the people who are superior from us. Dunya ka ilm hasil karna bahut asan hey koi be admi 10 sal may 15000 say 3 garia aur asayshay kharid sakta hey par dene Islam itna asan nahi k her koi hasil kar sakay Yeh tu Allah k chunay hoay banday hotay hey jo k sitaro kee manind hotay hey aur dosro ko roshi faraham kartay hey. Mujay bahut dukh hota hey jab koi aik mamoli admi in rashni daynay walo ko bura bhala kehta hey.

Jaha tak pathan kom ka tahalak hey tu meray khayal say agar islam practically baki hey tu woh is kom may hey. Mera yeh maksad hargiz nahi k baki qomo may Islam ka pyar kam nahi par Kissi be insan ka hulaya dekh kar us k aur us k mazhab k baray may andaza kia ja sakta hey. yeh loog sunat e nabvi par amal karnay walay loog hey. aur innay bura is lye kaha jata hey qk yeh roshan khayal na to hey na he ban saktay hey. yeh loog jhot aur jabir k agay juknay walay nahi. aur jahan tak kamran sb ko problem hey to i think very well said by mr amir k agar un k sath bura hoa tu kia yeh matlab hey k saray pathan buray hey.

[Imran]

I am sorry Mr kamran that i become personal to you but believe me my brother that you are wrong. I know well that in forum every one is free to express his opinion but i even beg you in last some posts that please dont be harsh with ulama s. Any way sorry for being personal as you are a senior member to this forum and write well except this topic.

[Muhammad Amir]

Well Mr Kamran I once again say that
<b>If any PATHAN has done anything wrong with you i strongely condemn this QABEH act but it does not mean to allege others as well that whole Quom is involved in homosexual activities...."</b>

Your NAFRAT against ISLAM and SHAIR-E-ISLAM is appearent now, so you don't need to personally abuse me because whoever will abuse ISLAM i will Resist there and my other Muslim brothers too..So please don't try to abuse ISLAM and SHUAER-E-ISLAM it is dangerous for your E'man(just a request as your muslim brother)...now as you are MOHDIS-E-AZAM I don't think I need to explain SHUAIR-E-ISLAM....

One more thing here for you that you are great PROPAGANDIST and you are very expert in getting things Mixup...But remember onething you can't mixup religious matters because ALLAH(S.W.T) NAY KHUD HI IS DEEN KI HIFAZAT KA ZIMMA LIYA HAY....

Those who want full Roshan Khyali I will request them to leavse Pakistan as early as possibel Because Pakistan Is our Country which was formed in the name of ISLAM and here PERVEZE MUZALLAL's Roshan KHYALI will not work...

MUJAHIDEEN-E-KHATM-E-MABUWWAT ki OULADAIN ABHI ZINDAH HANN ABHI KAI ATA-ULLAH-SHAH-BUKHARI(Rehmatullh Alleh) ZINDA HANN...

PREVEZE MUZALLAL KI KUFFAR DOSTI IS KA MIRZY GHULAM QADIANI SAY BADTAR HALL KARAY GII...

WOH VICTORIA KAY TOKROON PAR PLA THA YE BUSH KAY TOKROON PAR PALA HAY....

DENN-E-MUBIN ki HIFAZAT ALLAH NY KARNI HAY ROSHAN KHYALOON KI CHALAIN ALLAH UNHI PAR ULAT DAY GA....JAISA ALLAH NAY WADA KIA THA KAY MAY KUFFAR KI CHALLON KO UNHI PAR PALAT DOON GA AYSAHI ALLAH ROSHAN KHAYALOON KO BHI NAKAM KAR DEE GA....INSHA-ALLAH...

[Imran]

Dear Aamir

I have full respect for your sincerity towards the religion but my dear brother dont be too harsh with Mr kamran as your harsh opinion is not fruitfull. Betterly you can gain attention and change bad opinions and ideas of any body through your positive and good behaviour.

Regards
Imran

[Schuaeb]

I guess Kamran at least you have developed the courage to sustain such opposition by indulging in such debates

[Cool Lioness]

I am really sorry to read all of the above. And then we say that we are not extremists. This is the mistake all of us are making. Killing each other in the name of religion. Our religion has got such softness in it that it’s each word make you spell bound. There is no need at all to argue like that. Why getting so personal Mr. Amir? And Mr. imran I thought you were quite sensible (anyway thanks that you realised it soon). If you people have different views about a matter, does it mean that you people just start imposing it on each other? You explained your view; Kamran did it in his own way. Try to convince each other with reasons and facts.

I know Mr. Kamran has kind of rigid and extreme view about some of the issues. He makes the whole world responsible for the mistake of few numbers of people. His thoughts are based on his life experiences. Today if he thinks all Pathans are same that is because he has seen few bad examples (new to me atleast though i am Pathan too) in his own locality. Tomorrow may be he will change his view totally after seeing some one from same tribe doing something amazing. This is life. It shows you various and various things, each time with different angle. Our duty is to keep our sight vast and open to explore the truth and not hurry to make our point of view. Until a certain point of life, none of us can make an accurate or precise decision about anything. One should always remember that there are always exceptions and not all fingers are alike. Always keep the doors of hope open with yourself. By force, by calling names, by cursing each other, you will only increase the hate. You can make the other person stronger in his wrong believes with your wrong behavior. Leave him if one is not willing to understand. Your duty was to express yourself. You expressed what you thought was right. At least Mr. Kamran has read it. That means you have already done the most important task of conveying your message to him. And I believe he is enough sensible that if he ever stumbled across the reality he will accept it and would change his views.

For Mr. Kamran I will advice or suggest that keep yourself a bit flexible. No one is perfect, so are you. No one of us knows what’s going on inside our politics and who the actual people behind all these terrorist acts are. Then why to create differences and hatred among us for those people who doesn’t deserve anything from us? You have your bad experience with Pathans, we have their good impression on us. If we are admitting that ok there must be some elements causing the problems but not whole Pathan qoum is like them then you should also admit it with open heart because it is the truth. Same goes for Ulema e Deen. We definitely have the genuine Ulema’s among us and they are definitely dominating in number.

Regards

[Muhammad Amir]

<b>FOR BHAI IMRAN SAHIB</b>

Dear Imran Bhai You are more than 100% right and I must say that we should respectfully convey our point of view....But dear what will you say for those who start portraying wrong bliefe and want to impose it on others...

<b>FOR SISTER(BEHAN) COOL-LIONESS</b>
Dear Sister Cool lioness I once again say that their is nothing to disagree with you and i personally respect for all your words whatever you said in your above post...regarding your statement of getting personal with Mr KAMRAN I must say my sister that <b>If any person personally abuse me or even he slapt me i will say nothing to him</b> <b>but whenever a person abuse My RELIGION ISLAM and SHUIR-E-ISLAM I will definately resist</b> because It's my religious duty to do JEHAD aginst "DUSHMANAN-E-DEEN", believe me dear that i am neither a politician nor I am a member of any religious party nor i want to impose my bliefes on others because every one have to laid in his own grave.....One thing which I can do for my Muslim Brothers and Sisters is DUA...and believe me I pray for whole UMMAT-E-MUSLIMA in my all prayers.....Regarding you statement that I am having Extreme views dear sister If this is extremism i must say that I am the most Extremist person in Pakistan..and I proud to be!!!!!

<b>FOR ALL MEMBERS INCLUDING KAMRANACA SAHIB</b>

Dear All members especially Kamran Sahib...this is not the first time that we both quarrelled bitterly infact in all topics espacially where religious point of views involoved there was a huge difference in your thoughts and my thoughts and these differences lead to arose a conflict which then become critical...Mr KamranACA every time i want a peacefull solution of our conflicts and even after your stubborn behaviour to impose your thoughts on me,even after knowing that you will not accept my point of view, I lot of time tryed to make things calm and coll and asked pardon from you even after knowing that I am not wrong but you were the one who don't want peace in this forum and now you are also trying to impose your thoughts on IMRAN, every member of this forum will agree to me atleast on this point....But It does not mean that i left my point of view aside and become your devotee, only because of no support from others and they my be impressed by your qualifications(which value nothing to me)did nothing for me and even they feel hesitate to support my views on different topics....

Due to your Unethical behaviour and abusing Religion and Religious Scholars(ULEMAS)I had dicided not to post anymore in this forum and i had decided to leave this forum and will never post again but i think this is impossible for me because of such a calm and cool and "PAKIZAH" environment of this forum....which is going to be starined just because of you....

My dear brother I don't know why we people close our eyes from facts,once In this forum A person named as "USMAN HAIDER" posted an obscene post in this forum titled as "CALL GIRLS FROM KARACHI" there were only two people me and "ASTUTE ACCOUNTANT" who condemn his ill posts even Mr SHOAIB was against us by saying that this is general discussion thread and so every one can post here anything but due of public pressure Mr USMAN HAIDER changed this topic title by other names......

Once when their was a conflic between us on topic women "JOB" VIEL and SHARA-E-TAQAZAY....you have shown your ill mindness in that topic even after knowing that you are on wrong track but still you want to impose your ROSHAN KHAYALIE on us there was also no support for me that's why i need to leave this topic and again asked pardon from you even there was your mistake because you every time make religion "TAKHTA-E-MASHQ"(practicing pitch)...And this is critical for me atleast and i can't accept your views..Forunately Astute Accountant played there key role and resolve our conflicts and i once again showed full recpect for you and atleast you will agree to me that i always asked pardon from you even where i was on "HAQ"...

Mr KAMRANACA once you also said that i am not the person of followable bliefe I say yes I am not of followable belief and i never invited you or others to make me your IMAM...you do not need to follow me and others go and read AHADES-E-MUBARIKA and QURANE-KARIM and TAFASEER you will then assess the TRUTH....

What I want to say you here that you do not need to follow any IMAM or MULLAH or any sect/creed go and study QURAN and AHADEES REALITY WILL BE INSHA-ALLAH infront of you...

You also try to degrade TALIBANS and always use wrong words for them even after knowing that I am having my ROHANIE attachement with them...If you think TALIBANS are rigid this is your personal view but what i have seen in them is very different from what you are telling people here...

In the end I will invite every member that please read full topic and assess who used wrong words and who is having offensive behaviour and who is only defencing...

Regards,
Muhammad Amir

[Pracs]

Kamran,

It is but in vain to debate with the like of Amir and his new cohorts,. but I do commend on your logs here and any one with a little perception and understanding can get to the bottom of it but alas they read, but do not understand, they talk but do no think and I am but perplexed and some what awe strucken by the kind of 'Jugat' and 'name calling' Amir has resorted here in the last couple of posts. But then again, I have seen this before.

Unfortunately this is what a section of our society feels like, May Allah SWT give then guidance and hidayah,, and let they not be the one's about whom Allah SWT says so in Quran, chapter 2, Surah Baqrah.. 'Sommon bokmun umyoun....'

Amir,,. I have read all of the thread and no matter how 'neutral' I try to be I do not see how I cannot agree with most of what KAMRAN has to say. I am let me say again, very dissapointed wiht how you have chosen to rebut Kamran's point of view.. and this comes in a post where you quote hadith and Quran and in the same post refer to,,,, (I do not want to repeat here.) I am impressed by Kamran's cool, truly reflective of a professional and Muslim.

[kamranACA]

Dears,

No one should deem the non-posting of messages from me as a sign of my defeat. I Alhamdolillah feel that I am substantially on correct path. This is my faith and faith has nothing to do with changing the ideas of others un-necessarily as Mr. Amir said that every one has to lay down in his own grave. Further, Holy Quran says that there is no compulsion or binding in faith (Deen). Whenever I quoted my ideas, these were purely my ideas and were never aimed at to alter the thoughts of Amir , Imran or any body else. Irrespective of whatever I think in my mind about the rigids I no where call them Kafir or Dushmanan-e-Deen. I pray for them that may God give them wisdom and vision to understand the issues. Same prayer one should offer for me, if he/she is faithful to others as a human being or muslim.

How rigid is to present own ideas with all of the best efforts trying utmost to change the others' faith and at the same time throughing dirt and offering cheapness to others who are also stating what is their point of view. I no where asked or forced any one to change his faith or view point. I apparently cannot do it and I have no need to do it. I always said that bala bala is my view point and it has never been purposed to change what others feel. Wherever the things appeared positive or agreeable to my apprehension, I have agreed on that. One can see my discussions with Coollioness and others. Yes, no rigid can abstain me from saying what comes to my apprehension as a correct stance. I am not a hypocrite or cowrdice. I have been challenging these rigids even when there was a threat to my life in my colleges becoz the idols and taboos of thoughts have to be discussed openly. I have been doing so and will Inshallah keep on doing so upto my last breath. Yes, I might be wrong as per some others' view point and if some one thinks so, he has to prove it with reference to ground realities, references of Quran, Hadees and Sunnah. He/she also should pray for me so that I may be enlightened on correct path by the blessing of Allah as the hearts (minds) are in the control of Allah. Simply abusing me cannot make me to change my view point. Come on this forum, and discuss as per Quran, Hadees, history, Ijmah-e-Ummat and logic. Dont mess up the things.

My absence from the forum is on account of the murder of a very close friend of mine (aged 38). There is no clue of this murder as he had have no enemity. He was going to his dairy farm early in the morning at 5.15 AM in his car after offering Namaz-e-Fajar and reciting Hol Quran (as per witnesses) and was murdered in the way to the farm. He was a very noble man of Allah, was following all Sunnah, and was a hadees learner. He was from Ehal-e-Hadees brothers and was also the member of Jamat-ud-Dawa. However, he never participated in religious debates of any conflictive nature. I had have some Nazrayati Ikhtalaf with him but irrespective of it he was a very nice and easy going person and was a very loving friend. We are feeling immense grief for his untimely death. He left three kids from 3 years to 8 years aged. INNA LILLAH-E-WA INNA ALEHE-RAJEOON. May Allah bless him with Jannat-ul-Firdous. Ameen. Forum members are requested to offer Fateha for him.

I will come back to the discussion after some time.

Yes, Dear Mr. Shoaib / Mr. Pracs,

I have courage to face cheapness and rigidity. I think if I will not do it then who other will we look for. Something every person should do.

I dont misbehave with Amir or Imran, as their vulgarity do not affect me, my family back ground status of my family before my father's death, at the time of my father's death and after the lapse of some time after my father's death and my belief. God says in Holy Quran that he rotates the days (circumstances) among the human beings. I am from a respectable, renowned and educated zameendar family. Alhamdolillah. I dont have to prove it for reducing the cheapness of Imran or anybody else. Every one should have fear of Allah while giving statements. No body knows when his parents will die leaving them alone and when they will die leaving their dependents alone.

Hoping to talk to u again very soon Inshallah.

Thank you very much Shoaib, Coolioness and Pracs for stating the truth.

Best regards,

Kamran.

[Cool Lioness]

Amir sahib do not think that we are against you or Kamran is against Ulemas. Read his posts he definitely has much respect for Islam and the REAL ulemas. Baat yeh nahin ke koun theek hai, aur koun ghalat. The point of contradiction is to draw a line between Asal Ulema and Naqalee Ulema. Knowing one good Aalim doesn’t make all of them good and seeing one bad example doesn’t mean that all Aalim's are bad. As usual I have recalled one happening that stayed in news for hardly one or two days, that was a mishap with a 6-7 years old Pathan girl who would go to mosque for Taleem e Quran. The Qaari or Moulvi over there asked her parents that he will give her job in his house as Maid and also would like to teach her there. The pathan family agreed to his proposal as they were extremely poor and needed some financial support. The girl, I think her name was Saima, she started going to that Moulvi's house. It was decided that her house being quite at a distance, she will stay over night at moulvi's house and can see her parents twice in a week. Once it’s so happened that Saima did not appear for whole one week. Her parents got worried that why she did not come to see them in her usual days. So they thought to meet her at Moulvi's house. When they reached there they investigate about their girl from Moulvi Sahib. He replied that she is sleeping upstairs and promised that he will send her to house soon. The parents got suspicious on the way he was telling them the story. They insisted to meet her right away. At this moulvi sahib revealed the bomb news that she got slipped from the stairs last night and died on the spot. The parents ran towards the room upstairs and found their Saima lying dead on the floor. The smell of dead body was all around which was telling that she was dead there from more than a day. Her clothes were dirty with her urine and there was one more dress lying on a side with same dirtiness on it. Her hand fingers were bleeding as her nails were extracted with some tool. Her both thighs had hot iron marks on them and all of her body was stabbed with a thick stick. There were bottles of liquor all around in the room. Believe me that while I was reading that in news paper I could not stop my tears. Mera bas chalta tou ussi waqat uss Moulvi ko exactly ussi tareeqay se marwathi jaisa uss ne uss masoom 7 saal kee bachi ke saath kiya tha. After that day, daily i checked the news paper, to see the Anjaam of that Moulvi, but Saima's news never came in paper after that. No body did anything against that so called Moulvi.

Keeping above in mind I won’t conclude that all Punjabi Moulvies or all Moulvies around Pakistan are corrupt. That would be definitely a stupid thought.

Stating above incident doesn’t mean that I am against Moulvi's but I want to tell that there are some black sheep in our society who are wearing the masks of Sharafat, living with us so close , but they have hidden their faces behind the veil of religion. The need is to recognize them. Not all Moulvies, Aalims and Ulema e deen are same. Agar sab ke sab itnay theek hotay aur genuine loug hotay tou masla hi kiya tha? I am sure that the people you are living with, or the Aalims you are taking guidance from, must be really good people. That’s why you are opposing Kamran so hard. What Kamran is saying is also right in away if take a look on the Moulvi’s as I mentioned above. So please do not fight with each other. You both are right on your places and with your points. But give some place to new ideas too. Keep a positive attitude while listening to each other. Sometime by listening to a person, you suddenly come accross something totally new and different that you might have never thought of before. I am no where saying that we are here to change each other’s views. But listening to someone with open mind is not a bad thing either.

Everyone over here, including Kamran, Imran, and Amir, all are with same view that Lal Masjid operation was neither a right action from Govt nor from Lal Masjid Intezamia in order to achieve their goals (even if they were on right). We all condemn the killing of 100s of innocents. We all agree that there was some high govt personals or/and agencies and foreign hands involved. We all agree that way of escape chosen by Mr. Aziz cannot be appreciated. Phir laraiee kis baat kee? Itnay sab kuch similar honey ke bawajood, and we are here hardly 4-5 people discussing, agar yeh haal hai ke haath garebaan taq aagaey hain tou how can you expect a peaceful solution from Government and Lal Masjid Intezamia where 100s of people were involved? Shaid yeh humara qoumi massla hai ke humain baat banaani aathi hi nahin, sirf bigarni aathi hai. Aisa hai tou laggay raho……

And to tell all of you something new is that you all posses a narrow mind. Kamran showed his this characteristic while talking about Pathan Qoum. He thinks all of them are gays, religion freaks, extremists and responsible for all kind of terrorism around the world.
Mr. Imran and Mr. Amir showed their narrow mind when they got so personal with Kamran’s life and also when they do not accept that all Religious People that we see around us are not Doodh ke Dhulay.

Regards

[kamranACA]

Dear Coollioness,

I appreciate your above post. You are right in analyzing the situation of Maulvies. I while criticising some maulvies (rigids) always mentioned that I have full respect for all noble men of Allah and I always try to seek guidelines from them.

I dont put my hand to GRAIBAAN of Mr. Imran and Mr. Amir. Irrespective of any one's behaviour I always said Amir that he is our brother. Imran is also brother for us being a muslim and being a Pakistani.

One can witness that I have always conveyed my views about a situation or about some incident but I dont normally talk negative about any member of this forum. I always tried to use decent language for every one. Yes, I am also a human and might be at some times I had been somewhat indecent as a reaction of some action but still, never used dirt for any one. I strive to keep in my hand a corner of the morality, at least.

When I was talking about Pathan qoum, I was basically discusisng the rigids. I always said that whenevr I talk against any thing it is basically, illetracy, Jahaalat and rigidity. Otherwise I dont have any difference with any body else. I am myself a pathan.

I know there are number of innocent pathans as well but the issue is that if some nation or some one on behalf of such nation has to claim its purity as a whole nation, then it should be pure as whole nation. Good and bad exist every where, I totally agree. The problems of pathans is that they exclaim to be the purist as a whole nation, but so much is at extreme in this nation. I myself is from them. I see no other qoum/sub-qoum has such a big exclaimation of purity and being on right path, as much my own qoum has. I dont call every pathan as gay. Irrespective of cheapness of some guys here at this forum, can any one deny this reality that this is the biggest perversion of NWFP. One is the biggest hypocrite if denies this ground reality. Check out research papers on internet search engines. If you are a pathan, you cannot deny the trend of this qoum. This just appears to be Munaafqat that on one side they describe theirselves the biggest supporters and fighters of Deen-e-Islam and on the other side the worst ill doings are the part of their society. One has to understand what I want to clarify.

Anyways, I agree to you that good and bad exist every where.

Best regards,

Kamran.