2 years ICAEW training waived to ICAP members

tariqsohail · 07-23-2009, 06:16 AM

I got really useful information from this forum on different professional qualifications and I am feeling there will be thousands like me who are getting this kind of useful information from this forum. So for the sake of usefulness of this forum we need to be very relevant to the topic and needs to avoid personal liking or disliking.
I don't want to discredit any body and I am hoping my comment will be considered as a suggestion.
Regards,
Sohail

hanifasif · 07-23-2009, 04:02 PM

<blockquote id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by kamranACA
 
Rabia,

Recent history has shown some instances of using two IDs by same person for favoring the messages posted by him using such IDs alternatively so that people find the false image that two persons on this forum have similar opinions.

We all know that for one ID he had been claiming ACCA designation while for other he used to claim the CA designation of ICAS. At the same time he had been lecturing CA students on morality, professionalism and threatening them to report their so-called cases to ICAP. What a great example of professionalism!

Largely it was proved that a person who qualified as ACCA affiliate in December 2008 claimed to be ACCA member in 2006. Using such designation without having it lawfully is discreditable to the profession.

We know the person referred by you tried his fate at ICAI and left un-successful declaring that he now does not need it being an ACCA. He is still making calls to CA firms in Pakistan inquiring possibilities for ICAEW's contract. This is not what I have mentioned. I am just pointing out.

The man under refernce has so many times advised others to be relevant and not to waste time and energies. We all know he did his M.A. at Pakistan before trying ACCA and strived for CA as well. At least ICAI issue has been admitted by him. We may assume he did his MA just for the sake of thrist of knowledge. May I remind he did his ACCA in 31 plus in December 2008. How relevant and time efficient this example is.

We can discuss more, if it would be needed.

I wonder how Admin has allowed such person to post using third ID. Were 2 IDs not fullfiling his needs. Who knows if he has a fourth one as well!!!

I might have not been posting (at least regularly) here but this man has pulled me back. Interesting!!! At least people will see my presence on his threads unless he uses entirely a different identity through 4th or 5th ID.

Regards,

KAMRAN.

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We have had enough of this. Please do not start another battle with Khalid. Enough is enough

kamranACA · 07-23-2009, 05:50 PM

Dear Hanif,

It's not a personalized battle; its just stating the facts and save a lot of people from the false-hood, fraudulent intent and untruthful identity of a person who feels his-self a deemed advisor to the forum.

It's enough to know for you and for all other members why this man was banned from the forum. He was using two IDs that were checked and detected by ADMIN, only and only on pointing out by me. When I accused him of using two IDs, even at that time some of the fellows felt I was accusing him wrongly. Remember, his dual ID where he claimed two qualifications were captured by ADMIN finally. Admin has also posted this fact on one of the thread. You can search it here. He never posted any clarification to the action taken by ADMIN. He submitted a written apology to ADMIN that he will never do such fraudulent acts again. But now he re-appeared with a third ID and is repeating same bluff. Who knows if he has 4th or 5th as well? Is it out of expectations?

For your info let me tell you his IDs at this forum were "mroneflower" and "MasudCA". For one ID (mroneflower) he used to claim ACCA membership since 2006 while he qualified as affiliate in December 2008. (I have posted the link of his ACCA result of December 2008 on another thread). Mind it, he was not even an affiliate ACCA in 2006. For the other ID (MasudCA) he claimed to be a member of ICAS (Scotland) and made big points to favor his own second ID, falsely depicting his-self as another person. How a person who was not even a student of ICAS claimed him to be qualified member of ICAS at this professional forum. Is not it, what he is upto?

I agree this is a professional forum although we have some members like him who are totally non-professional. I wonder if the professionals of this forum don't mind any deceiver, liar, fraudulent and mis-representer of the facts.

I wonder if the acts done by the man under discussion don't fall under the definition of these words.

I wonder if the forum members don't mind a man who expresses his proud for working with white girls (kia banda hai yaar) and then alleges the other countrymen for carrying slaves' mindset.

Forum members should know that he had been abusing one of the female members of this forum by e-mailing her continuously that was reported to the ADMIN of this forum.

I know so many will be advocating him, ignoring what he has been doing, but to me it makes no difference.

I must ask the members to keep in their memories why this man was banned and at least condemn his continued ill-mannered efforts to affect the grace of the profession and Pakistan. He has been even indirectly disgracing his own ACCA with his posts and acts on other threads lately.

I wonder where the ADMIN has gone, where their so-called SOPs have frozen, and how a man administratively banned for criminal acts is openly appearing on the forum and creating same mess for which he was expelled.

Hanif,

Do you advise the people to keep the eyes closed, keep the ears shut, and hold their tongues irrespective of witnessing whatever wrong, worse and worst? If you do, I have to make no point to you.

The man who is facing bad time for a decade is declaring bad times for others!!!

Please make a note that it's not a personalized battle.

Regards,

KAMRAN.

rabia-k · 07-23-2009, 05:59 PM

<blockquote id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by retarded
 Aray Dada sab bakwas hai ,icap ki value wesay he khatam ho rahe hai......[xx(]
aj kal icap ka ca sarkain naap raha hai ... icaew ka ca ghanta kuch karay ga????[p]

aur [0] rabia [0]tum khali peeli may logon ko kyun tangh karte ho ,
i have never ever seen any contribution from ur side , which could really help people..
jao pehlay acca ka level 1 complete karoo phir yahan akar tum bhe sarkain naapna , phir tumhay koi nahi rokay ga [p][p]

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
go through my posts ...you will find some very very valuable ones..some one found a job on this forum due to one of my posts.
we can post whatever we like, keeping in mind the forum rules.
so keep this in ure retarded mind and dont dictate me what to post.

if the ACCAs and the ICAEWs take over the pakisatani market as is being said by one fellow on this forum , to patanahi tum bechare acmas ka to kya hi hashar hoga[?]

rabia-k · 07-23-2009, 06:42 PM

<blockquote id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by mroneflower1
 retarded

I agree with you so these two should be fully ignored.

To ALL

According to my information, ICAEW membership gained through gateway route (i.e ICAP) will not be recognised anywhere in the world and all those who will gain ICAEW membership through gateway route (i.e ICAP) will not be able to become members of ICAA(Aus), CICA(Canaad), ICAS(scotland) etc and all those institutes with whom ICAEW has MRA.

The reason is, all those institutes with whom ICAEW has MRA require ICAEW membership gained through by

1) complying ICAEW training requirements and
2)passing ICAEW examinations.

As far as ICAEW examinations are concerned, ICAP members will be ICAEW members by passing ICAEW exams, so one condition is met.

ICAP members becoming ICAEW members under MOU are not satisfying second condition as ICAP members would not become ICAEW members by complying ICAEW training requirements. Please note ICAP members do not need to undergo any ICAEW training. In short ICAEW membership gained through gateway route( i.e ICAP) is useless and not recognised anywhere in the world. In other words, even if ICAP members change picture on passport, still it will be useless.

This is the reason, I say ICAP should try to enhace its own reputation instead of using someone else shoulder. This is the reason I say ACCA members do not need any other accountancy qualifiation as ACCA is itself bigger than ICAEW.

Conclusion

ICAP is gateway to ICAEW membership and ICAEW membership gained through this gateway route is useless. I regret to say even after MOU with ICAEW, ACAs of ICAP are still not part of international ACA ommunity. POOR ICAP, Still a losser

In future there will be three types of ICAEW members as follow

1) ICAEW UK qualified (Top one)
2) ICAEW Pakistan Qualified (second category)
3) ICAEW Qualified through gateway Qualification (i.e ICAP), Not recognised anywhere.

One more interesting thing is that ICAP members will become ICAEW members without being to England or wales. Remember it is not true with ACCA because,

ICAEW stands for Institute of Chartered Accountants in England and wales. Means ICAEW is regional qualification as England and wales are part of ICAEW name.

Whereas ACCA stands for Association of Chartered Certified Accoutants, means Global qualification and not bound by any country or region.

Moreover, There are many CA institutes in the world like Institute of Chartered Accountant in England & Wales, Scotland, Austrailia, Moon, Sun etc or what ever. On other hands, ACCA is one and only.
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this also applies to ACCA members(not affiliates) who have gained the ICAEW qualification through the back door. they cant become members of ICAA (australian CA). unfortunately even CIMA has a very good MOU with ICAA while our so called "GLOBAL BASHING" qualification doesnt.

rabia-k · 07-23-2009, 07:30 PM

<blockquote id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by mroneflower1
 Dear retarded

Just ignore her, she does not have any knowledge nor try to gain knowledge.She just make post without any proper knowledge and information. She will learn by passage of time. Just ignore her.
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i learned one very weird very strange thing from this forum atleast. i mean i never knew a person with a professional qualification could face a tough time in even stating his qualification if he is asked to!

"ACCA OR CA?" i didnt know this question was like solving a question on rocket science to some. [D][D]

retarded,
thanks, atleast i came to know the worth of ACCAs in pakistan from you, 7000 Rs a month [D][D]even a labourer earns more than this in pakisatn. although i was aware of this before but didnt know it was this bad!! no wonder those several ACCAs from pakistan flodding the gulf market every year.

rabia-k · 07-23-2009, 08:39 PM

so u r rejected to have even a Chaprasee role thereat.[V]

wesay aik aapas ki bat hai , mere liye bhe koi job dekh do wahan plz....[B)]
[/quote]

abhi job ki itni zaroorat hai to jo chaprasee ki job tumhari nazar mein hai khali to usko pakarrlo ....mere samne kyoun haath phalarahae ho [D][D]

UzairCh · 07-23-2009, 09:23 PM

Dear Kamran

Please visit the following link

http//www.icaew.com/index.cfm/route/157505/icaew_ga/en/Qualifications/Train_for_the_ACA/ACA_international/ACA_training_in_Pakistan

In the third paragraph it says

In June 2009 the ICAEW and ICAP agreed additional, positive changes. In recognition of ICAPâs high standards for assuring the work experience of its own students, from 30 June 2009 ICAEW no longer requires ICAP members to complete a two year training agreement and the Initial Professional Development requirement. This also applies to ICAP members currently on the ACA programme.

ICAEW has a very simple process of registering firms/companies as approved training offices. ANYBODY can get up download a form from ICAEW website. Then contact any ACA,ACMA,CPA or ACCA working as his boss in the company to fill in that one page form, scan it and email it to the ICAEW in UK. Within 7 days the company will become Approved Training Office for ICAEW. ICAEW accepts training in Industry as well. This will open pandora box in Pakistan. Every body will get his father's or uncle's or father's friend's , some relative's or other known person's company or Audit Firm or government organisation registered as ICAEW approved Training Office and begin ICAEW in Pakistan.

More interestingly i tell you initially it was decided with ICAP that only Advance Stage exams will be held in Pakistan and entire Professional Level will be exempt to ICAP members. Later ICAEW withdrew exemption for Business Strategy paper of the Professional stage. This gave them an opportunity to bring atleast one professional level paper in Pakistan and hold its exams in British Council. Then they said if Business Strategy paper can fly in and out of Pakistan why cant other Professional level papers. So now in my ICAEW account at ICAEW website they show that 6/12 written based Professional level exams are available to attempt in Pakistan. The other 6 knowledge module exams are computer based and there is no arrangement at British Council to attempt them as yet.

ICAEW even has solution to this, all over the world they have licensed Pearson IT solution company's which is an independent IT company. Pearsons establish computer based examination centers all over the world. The process is simple, any University or college can contact Pearson and fulfill their requirement ie (quality, space, security etc) and they will affiliate that university or college as a Pearson computer based examination center in Pakistan. Once affiliated with Peason ICAEW computer based exams can also be held at that CBE.

So you all can see how it started. TOP up program for ICAP, articles only for ICAP. Others can apply as well. One professional level application paper brought into Pak for ICAP and then 5 others also sneaked into Pak. 6 remaining computer based coming into Pak soon and already i have heard some Pegasus type named institute in Islamabad has registered itself as 1st computer based examination center in Pakistan.

rabia-k · 07-23-2009, 10:44 PM

<blockquote id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by retarded
 <blockquote id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by rabia-k
 
so u r rejected to have even a Chaprasee role thereat.[V]

wesay aik aapas ki bat hai , mere liye bhe koi job dekh do wahan plz....[B)]
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

abhi job ki itni zaroorat hai to jo chaprasee ki job tumhari nazar mein hai khali to usko pakarrlo ....mere samne kyoun haath phalarahae ho [D][D]

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

DADI [})]
May nay to kab ki start kar de hai yeh job , i asked you too bcoz u deserve it more than me even...........[8D]
tumharay samnay hath phela nahi raha tha , hath barha raha tha offer letter k sath[p] ta k ICAP ko aik "Chamcha cum chaprasee" mil sakay
hahahahahaaaaaaaaaa[)][p][D]

wesay may nay audit & accounts may tumharay liye aik post marii hai , us ka reply karoo agar thoori se bhe knowledge hai tumhay to,[p]

[8D]
[/quote]

nannae munnae doodh pitae bachae,
dadi ki meri fikar mat karo, tum ko job ki zaroorat hai mujhe nahi. abhi jhoot mat bolna ke tumhae job ki zaroorat nahi hai. acconts ko choro asa karo kisi Edhi retarded home mein drivery karlo agar license hai tou [D][D]
dont worry about me i will keep all options open after ACCA, ICAP/ICAEW.

fahadtariq786 · 07-24-2009, 12:27 AM

Sir Khalid sahab .please let us know about this news as well so that who want to benefit from ICAEW programme in Pakistan can be benefited.
Thanks bhai in advance.

tariqsohail · 07-24-2009, 01:46 AM

I think each professional qualification have its own worth. Basically its depends on employer's personal choice..like some people like American, some like British etc. etc. Further it depends on main country of the company. Like an American company will always prefer CPA, CMA and a brith company will always prefer ACA, ACCA.

kamranACA · 07-24-2009, 09:30 AM

Dear Uzair,

This is globalized world and it keeps on changing in perpetuity. The people who are afraid of theirselves create obstacles for others. However, I believe this cannot go a long way, regardless how such restrictions are imposed.

The process of getting authorization from ICAEW looks easier the way you described it as well as simply looking at the first email response received from ICAEW, but it is not in fact. You know they refused authorizing some firms in Pakistan merely for the reason that some of their partners were lacking CPD hours credit of ICAP. They check each and everything the way it deserve. I remember when we got authorization their two representatives visited our offices in person and had detailed discussions on our firm's training procedures. You are either posting on the basis of theoratical knowledge or you deliberately want to picturize it so simple.ICAEW has a complete procedure which the authorized firms have to follow, be it training procedure, reporting of training aspects to ICAEW, salaries/stipend, benefits, rotations or whatever! If you are at EY, discuss it with some concerned partner.

Others,

Rabia does not make an invalid point. One should post a clarification either he is ACCA or CA from scotland! There is no harm in it since he has been bluffing a lot previously.

In one of foregoing posts (his second last so far) he again bluffed why he was banned from the forum. He is simply once again playing with forum rules. He was expelled and thrown out for the reasons which I have been repeatedly mentioning on this thread. He surprisingly offers no explanation to his fradulent acts. He should feel shame on calling his-self professional or advising others on professional issues unless he provide some explanation to the alleged issues. I have no personal battle I must remind. But unless he posts explanation to all of lies and misrepresentation made by him personally for decieving the members at large, all the members have a right to keep on reminding him at every thread wherever it would be warranted.

One of my students became ACCA affiliate in 20 years (roughly) age. This man did so in 31 after trying and failing at lots of other fronts. We understand what's his frustration level but it should not be transformed into the acts of decieving the others.

We have no concern with how much failures he faced and how much time he took to do what he claims. This is his personal matter. But when some one tries to become volunteered advisor of various institutes and countries and provide 2 plus 2 roadmap for survival and successes (the thing bigger than his brain) then we have a right to call into question the level of his own intelligence, achievevments, failures etc. We have a right to question on the time wasted by such international consultant in getting merely the ACCA affiliate designation which people secure in the age of 19. We have a right to question why he makes call to firms at Islamabad and keeps on making inquiries for training placements available for him if he advises others not to do so. Is there any logic of making such call if he was not interested? It could be engineered I know. Let me assure you, if he will engineer such logic I will make sure what he discussed with Haider Abbas. He might have never called Haider Abbas and have mentioned it here falsely since he is habitual of saying lies. Let's see what he come up with.

I remind ADMIN that he was banned and his re-entry must have been with ADMIN's consent which does not appear the case. Had it been so he should have no reason of placing 1 with his ID. I draw attention that he is decieving the members regarding reasons of his expulsion from the forum specially those who have not visited such threads.

Similarly I remind members that ADMIN in one of his posts stated that this man accepted his fradulent acts and tendred apology and promise of not doing so in future that was not accepted by ADMIN in the best interest of the forum and members. By doing such criminal activities he not only affected the ADMIN but also the forum members who due to his misrepresentations considered him level headed professional. I draw attention that he should accept his crime openly on the forum with a promise to all members that he will not act fradulently with members in future. If he does not do so I recommend and request the ADMIN to apply their so-called SOPs and don't take any personalized decision. I know application of SOPs takes larger amount of time. Reasons may be known to ADMIN or the developers of such SOPs. A worthy member GOODMAN lately pointed out that delayed decisions are not the effective decisions. However, I know we have to wait for the action.

Regards,

KAMRAN.

UzairCh · 07-25-2009, 02:07 AM

Dear Kamran

Yes I know all the CPD hour requirements and other requirements. I am also aware of lenghty forms that I will have to fill in and sign off during my training.

Riaz Ahmed & Co had its application for ATO rejected initially because of non completion of CPD hours. When I talk about the simplicity and ease in the processes ICAEW has, i talk it in comparison to other ACA bodies like ICAA, ICAS, CICA, ICAP and ICAI etc. This is because all other ACA bodies donot accept training in the Industry, donot offer free exemptions and donot allow to attempt Advanced stage exams before Initial Stage exams. This new revelation is very shocking for me. In the exam eligibility regulations of ICAEW, they say any student can give Advanced level exams at anytime, students needs NOT TO HAVE passed any or all of Professional level exams or need not to have been registered into a training contract. Only the case study has to be attempted as a last exam and that to while entered in a training contract and be in the last year of it.
Such rules are annoying but create alot of flexibilities and ease for students as compared to other institutes in the world.

UzairCh · 07-25-2009, 02:20 AM

Dear Others!

I feel people including myself here are considering the arrival of other Professional and Educational bodies into Pakistan as a bad sign for Pakistani economy and sighting examples of India blocking other Professional bodies from entering their boundries.
There is another dimension to all this. Rise of competent,internationally accredited qualification holders in Pakisatn can be, in a way beneficial to Pakistan. Pakistan can become a major contributor of high qualified, well equiped and trained work force all over the world. Economies of countries like Canada, Ireland, Australia, New Zealand and far eastern nations are to grow in the long run and this recession is not going to stay this way for long. Once the recession is over there will be rapid boast and surge in search for qualified professionals.
Pakistanis can benefit with Internationalisation of Education system in Pakistan and its recognition world wide. Till now we have been doing jobs like, cooks, dishwashers, shop or petrol pump attenders or sweapers all over the world and such labour, at times gave bad image to Pakistan. With Indians returning back to their homeland because of their growing economy Pakistanis can take key posts worldwide and establish their names in areas where they have not been allowed to enter as yet.

kamranACA · 07-25-2009, 02:34 AM

Dear,

I don't have any reservations to your comments on comparing ICAEW with other bodies more specifically because I have not made such comparisons at my own and I in fact cannot comment negatively or positively on your analysis of flexibilities.

I just pointed out that getting authorization is not that easier as had been portrayed. ICAEW does not authorize firms simply on exchange of few emails. However, a firm should get authorization only if it is capable.

It's good to know that you are well aware of the things happening around in the firms. Had you previously been the student of the firm you named?

In my view your decision of having CA designation is very good although it has to remain unaffected by my note of appreciation.

However, if some one criticises your decision it reflects the frustration and griefs he had been facing in his career. Claiming to be CA from Scotland and ACCA when he was a "poor" student thereof provide evidence to what I have just mentioned.

I wish you very best and a properous future as a management accountant and chartered accountant (to be)!

Regards,

KAMRAN.