Kamran Bhai tell us about new policy

[sajidshah1977]

Kamran bhai please tell us about the new/proposed policies of ICAP i.e

1) The permanenet pass policy for papers of E and F (ICAP)
2) Articles in industry.

Please do share your personal thoughs as well.

Best regards

sajid Shah

[hshamsi]

sajid

permanent credit policy is nt yet applicable, this might be applicable from Jun 10 session for E n F (bt still nt sure as on ICAP website it is only written that this is no notification of applicability frm dec 09 attempt) so still sm time to go..
also chk http//www.icap.org.pk/web/news-details.php?section=all&id=091030090518

n for ur 2nd query, for which the presidents' communication read as under "Now the Council has decided that specified organizations other than CA firms will be approved by the Institute as Training Organizations... However, as several members had expressed concern on the implementation of this decision and the relevant by-laws, the council decided to hold further deliberations with the members through round table conferences, and consequently, the implementation of this decision has been deferred. "

as no other communication after the above yet came to public, we can say that the orgz which can offer CA articlz are nt yet finalised /registered /affiliated (watever u say) with ICAP for standing privileged to offer such articles.

regards

[sajidshah1977]

Thank you very much Mr Hshamsi sahab, I am happy that you replied to my post,looking for some words from others as well and specially from Mr KamranACA as all we know that he is interested in matters concerned with the students of ICAP,Want to hear from you Mr KamranACA bhai.

[sajidshah1977]

any more comments?

[kamranACA]

Sajid

The amendment regarding permanent exemption has been finalized at ICAP level but is awaiting affirmation at some other Govermental front since it requires amendment in law. You know all fronts where our Govt is involved, things always take undue time. It is hoped to get legal effect soon, as explained by Hina Shamsi.

Training at industry has seriously been opposed by all circles and stakeholders. In my personal opinion this change will never be feasible in Pakistan. Our industry, even multinational, is not geared to do this job. Firstly, they, in every technical matter, depend and rely on professional firms and advisors due to scarcity of time and other mangerial engagements. Further, training requires a very specific top to down mentor relationship which, in no situation, is expected to be established in industry.

This proposal was rejected and I hope in all foreseable future this is not going to happen.

I hope you would be clarified.


Regards,



Kamran.

[sajidshah1977]

thank you very much,Kamran bhai for making it clear to us.

[sajidshah1977]

Kamran Bhai I have talked on phone to one of the officials of ICAP( He is one with love and Care for the Students as well), He has informed me that Mr Shubbur Zaidi,who has presided the meeting in this regard,is himself in favour and has actively worked in favour of the Idea of Providing the opportuinity of article ship to students of ICAP in industry. I am confused in this matter now, as I can not say that U r providing us the wrong information nor I can blam Mr NOOR ali that he is giving us wrong info.
As for as policy is taking Direction You seem to be telling the truth that This new Idea is being opposed in all circles.

[kamranACA]

Dear

You and Ali Noor both are right. ICAP is an autonomous body and typically has to take all decisions at its own.

The idea about training at industry was floated by ICAP members and was also opposed by ICAP members. Still, so many members feel it a workable proposition. However, it has been rejected by majority, after which, it was decided to think on this matter afresh.

This issue now has to be discussed in detail, among members.

Since majority has already opposed it, there are almost no chances of having it implemented.

If for any reason, this is allowed and implemented, even then our industry neither has capacity nor a mindset to train the students of an apex body like ICAP.

ICAEW has authorized certain industries in Pakistan to train their students for ACA program. However, this idea has shown its failure so far. The companies (in industry) which were authorized don't even know what is ICAEW. So, it's a joke.

I am of strong view that industry cannot train CA students and as such will not be allwed to do so, since it has strongly been opposed.

Regards,



Kamran.

[noman]

Ok..

But i just want to make a point..

There are more students having done CA inter now then ever before..
and we all know that firms are not inducting enough..
consequently many students have to wait for 1-2 years just to get into a firm..

i myself know about 4-5 attempt CA inter who do not get articles...
and sadly..many firms (including top 10)...they withold registeration of students..

if there are not enough firms to train...and there are more people who need to be trained........what is the solution??

[hshamsi]

noman

u r right that thr r many students who do nt get thr articleship in top 10, bt ur statement that thr r nt enough firms to train is nt true. thr r many firms i my self witnessed which r lacking behind jst bcuz most of the times, top 5 recruits all the CA inter trainees, n these forms do nt get enough trainess so as to audit effectively, thereby advertising even at ICAPs' notice board offering higher stipend rates jst to recruit sm no of trainees so as to keep goin'.

however, this is fact that top firms withheld reg of many trainees, which is sad n i myself also regret. bt for talking abt articles in an industry clearly means nt gettin professional attitude. industry is industry, u can not get ur self trained the apex u require being a chartered accountant as u do in an audit firm. articles means training, which a CA profession require, thats y an accountant is disticnt frm the rest of others. an articles in industry means nt gettin the required technical n professional attitude. this is the biggest fact n because of which i also strictly oppose articles in an industry.

bst regards

[Schuaeb]

Hi all,

I am making any sort of contribution on this forum after quite some time. Training in industry, some months or years back it seemed quite probable that ICAP will allow training in industry alongwith CA Firms, however, didn't happen. I am of the opinion that a student may not be trained in industry as he could be in a firm (though an employer may provide you a totally different opinion when you meet him as a job seeker). But here I will like to second the point noman made, the induction capacity of firms is less than the number of the students seeking training. Consequently, it is seen that quite some time say four to five months of a student are wasted in search of a firm and a further equal period serving as an unregistered student. Surfing the forum itself tells that students are facing difficulty in this regard. I believe ICAP should consider allowing training in industry as the equation of induction capacity of firms and the students is worsening.

Permanent exemption was almost finalized by previous council of the institute, but, intentionally or by coincidence the previous council left the finalization of these proposals for the new council. According to my information this delay is not being caused due to procedural delays in amendment of law but the change of council before approval. I anticipate it may take time.

Regard
Shoaib