Revised Stipend Rates

[Sarfaraz]

Gentlemen revised stipend rates are as under

For B Com/ M Com..................2500
For CA foundation.................3000
For CA inter......................4000
Module E passed...................5500
Moduel F passed...................7000






ok guys stop dreaming these are just proposed by me <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_cool.gif border=0 align=middle>

There is a will. There is a way

Edited by - Sarfaraz on Aug 08 2004 044140 AM

[smraza]

<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>
hey sarfraz, stop playing with emotions of trainee students, especially nowadays, when almost every student is doing late sittings.

SMR

[Ammar]

aoa
door kay dhool sohaney
if icap approve urs suggestion
r u in position to get it
i mean urs firm support it
regards
Ammar

[Augustus]

oh dear i was about to hospitalise due to sudden heart attack in such an early age .......... please don't do this joke with pooor<img src=icon_smile_sad.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_sad.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_sad.gif border=0 align=middle>article students otherwise u r gonna trouble<img src=icon_smile_tongue.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_tongue.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_tongue.gif border=0 align=middle>

[Sarfaraz]

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Tahoma, Arial" id=quote>quote<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
aoa
door kay dhool sohaney
if icap approve urs suggestion
r u in position to get it
i mean urs firm support it
regards
Ammar


<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Tahoma, Arial" size=2 id=quote>
INSHALLAH

There is a will. There is a way

[Sarfaraz]

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Tahoma, Arial" id=quote>quote<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
aoa
door kay dhool sohaney
if icap approve urs suggestion
r u in position to get it
i mean urs firm support it
regards
Ammar


<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Tahoma, Arial" size=2 id=quote>
INSHALLAH

There is a will. There is a way

[Ammar]

salam
but this type of way, and will,appear several time in firm
but
hope 4 the best
regards
Ammar

[Pracs]

well, i guess it may become a reality some day, if firms wanted to do it they could still pay you more since the ICAP stipend rates are the minimum as advised by the institute.

However, the mentality of practising CA's in Pakistan is rather pathetic, one such CA once told me (during my articles) that the trainees should actually be paying back to the firm for the valuable training that is imparted on them.

I do agree that the training is a valuable asset in an accountant's career and the Pakistani system does provide you with invaluable experience, having said that I do feel a lot more can be done on the stipend's issue.

If it is of any solace to all the trainee's out there articled students in India are paid as less Indian Rupees 500/=. !

[Azeem Shah Khan]

thank God we are not in India

atleast something to cheer about )

cheeeeeeeeers

azeem

[Goodman]

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trainees should actually be paying back to the firm for the valuable training that is imparted on them.

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This type of system was operating in UK some time ago, whereby trainess used to pay to firms and work for them. (My training partner told me that his father has to arrange money to pay for his training in the firm)

[Pracs]

Oh my, were those the dark ages in UK.... Well Thank God we had nothing to do with it.

So do you mean like it was an official fee that a trainee paid on a monthly basis or a one time placement fee (i am just trying to figure out how the accounting firm treated it as an income) and what happened in case of NOC's the firm would give you a discount i reckon if they saw a customer (trainee) about to leave.. (am i getting carried away !)

[Goodman]

Dark ages? .... well the people who got trained in those times delivered a first class training to next generatin. But I sometimes feel that we are not delivering the same quality of training to future accountants cuz of shortcuts avaliable through extensive use of technology, modern day cost contraints and mature IT systems enabling cost and efficiency tracking systems.

On a practical level, the training costs in UK are high as compared to Pakistan. Minimum wage leglislation, technology costs, expensive supervision time etc. I honestly believe that we might need a system whereby in order to cover training costs we need to have some sort of similar system in place. People through such a system can be offered a guranteed minimum salary for x number of years. The guranateed salary can be well above the newly qualified salary. I think it can implemented in Pakistan before being imported to UK.

[Pracs]

I dont see that happening in Pakistan in the near future. Its all about demand and supply. Do you have any idea how many students apply to the Big 4 in Pakistan alone, every attempt only a handful are let in. Moreover, only one of the Big 4's in Lahore actually puts you on their rolls from the day you join them. The other 3 (i.e 4 at that time) had you work for them for free for 6 months to a year before they would register you ! students were just as happy. Since the average age for CA foundation/ACCA affiliate/CIMA graduate has reduced to 19-20 years, it makes no difference if the trainees are paid peanuts for another 3-4 years. It sounds fair enough that you start making money at 24-25 plus. I see that the smaller firms got effected by the foundation/ppt thing, ICAP solved that by allowing candidates with Masters degree (M.comm etc.) and B.comm with additional papers and no.of years of training. Least to say ours is the only country that requires a four year training period, every one else suffices at three years.

I have worked for a Big 4 in the UAE and have had the opportunity to work with staff from our US, UK and South Africa offices. I would say US was the better of the three, followed by SA and the UK. US too roughly follows an article style training (though you are paid a salary), but trainee accountants usually come in fresh from the universities (usually with an undergrad)at 20-21 years of age are paid less until they pass their CPA and gain some experieince. SA follows a very similar set up as ours and they have a bit of freebees with their 'accounting clerks', UK i believe is the place where it is most expensive to train an accountant. In the UAE,.. since there is no local accounting body so we get 'trained accountants' from country XYZ,.. so you won't find any trainees or clerks. We do train a small number of staff but the quality of time spent and the level of committment from the other side is not to Pakistani standards. Jobs are budget tied down to the fraction of hours !

I guess when there is little money involved the trainee understands that he or she is in for the experience and not the bucks.. there is more of an Ustaad-shaagird relationship between a Senior and Junior. I am not saying that the system is flaw less, what I am saying is it does work well and i find that the quality of accountants that come from a Big4 in Pakistan is superb when I compare it to the one's coming from India or the UK or South Africa. No offence meant may be we have in this part of the world attracted the wrong kind of candidates but that has been my experience.

[Goodman]

trainees coming out of Pakistan's big firms are superb, you would hardly find a match elsewhere in the world.

You rightly said thousands apply for training only few are selected. Now if we take it a stage further, and give them the following option to those thousands applying

Pay x amount to cover training costs over 3 years, pass your ACCA exams over whatever period of time and subject to completing the training within the firm and passing the exams you are guaranteed a slary level. Now If I trian somebody, my training costs are covered, and the person passes. I would go to any possible length to retain the person, however the firms guarantee wont materialise cuz the guy will get bigger bucks elsewhere. But our int. is that the person stays with us.

At the end of the day firms training costs are paid for by the ones who going to earn big bucks in the future