Is it unwise to do CPA after CA from ICAP or ICAI?

[salmanthevalor]

i been living in charlotte, north carolina since my birth and i been thinking for a few days about moving back to pakistan and do CA. I am Sophomore(last year in high school). now what i'm gonna ask is a little bit foolish because i can easily do CPA from south california and i been hearing about that you can't get a job just with CA(chartered ACCOUNTANCY) here. so well is it wise to do CPA after CA and do they give a CA some relaxation or certain exemptions if he intends to do CPA? and how much time is it gonna take?toronto boy, whoever you are , i found your answers helpful so please answer mine!

[Toronto_Boy]

Dear

Every country has its own accounting qualifications. Generally speaking there are two kind of jobs i.e. Audit and Non-Audit. Audit jobs require a license of that country or State such as to work in audit job in any state you need public accounting license of that state which is in your case NC.

For non-audit jobs you don't need license but employers of that country or state know more about qualification of that country or state, so as a job requirement they need that qualification like CPA from NC in your example. Therefore, employers in any State would need CPA to work in that State, and NO OTHER QUALIFICATION. Moreover, employers in States know nothing about qualifications of other countries.

Similarly, if you wanna work in UK, you need any of ICAEW, ACCA, or CIMA from UK. Pakistan's case is little different. You must need CA of ICAP to work in audit jobs, but for non-audit jobs generally Pakistani employers accept foreign qualifications too as these have foreign tags. It is more better if a person has foreign experience too like you (would be in future) if you wanna move back to Pakistan with CPA and some US experience.

You may transfer from one qualification to another like CPA to ICAEW or CA (ICAP) etc. Check ICAEW's website. They are giving ICAEW's CA to CPAs with minimal requirements.

Going from CPA to any onther qualification is more easy than vice versa (except for Canadian CA, Australian CA, and Ireland's CA with which CPA has mutual recognition agreement).

You would have hard time with any other accounting qualification of any other country if you wanna work in USA. You must need CPA to work in USA. However, if you move out of USA, you may fulfill other country's CA institute's requirements and get that CA.

CA and CPA are just two different names of very similar qualification. Just like you say MD doctor in States and MBBS doctor in Pakistan, though both do same.

So, all depends on you, where do you wanna live in future. If you wanna be in States then do CPA. If you wanna go to UK then do any of ICAEW, ACCA, or CIMA.

I would suggest you to complete 4 years accounting degree from any US university or college. After that get a job in CPA firm as you also need some accounting experience too to complete CPA, and then do CPA. After that decide about your future. If you would want to go to any other country at that time, then move there and get your CPA transfered into that country's qualification.

Your first goal should be accounting degree at this time. You would have enough time to decide during university years and you would understand more.

I hope it helps.

Note NC striked my memory as couple of years back I got a chance to see smoky mountains (Pigeon Forge) and then crossed over till Cherokee, NC. I think its not far from Charlotte.[)]

Regards

[salmanthevalor]

thanks for reply but one thing that hit my mind is that when i was reading ICAP's site, i wandered around and eventually got into "why CA" catagory. What i read in there was that " Our highly qualified CAs work in the international markets around the globe and providing altruistic and magnimous services". Thought i don't remember the exact words. But thats what i saw. Now you're saying that accountants that may be public or whatever won't get permited until they get a license of that particular state. Then why ICAP used the term "INTERNATIONAL markets"? Are they bogus at making certain statements or these are just prejudices and foolish orthodoxes that we have? And one other thing, i don't want to do bachelors or all that poo for CPA, so i want to ask that is CA from CICA interchangeble in CPA? Or should i just join ICAP and seek for jobs in future and see how it goes?Moreover, i randomly googled " Institute of chartered accountants in USA" and they came a website that didn't really seem to be a spam. You can search it for yourself. And if chartered accountants ain't recognized then why in right mind would they create a website that belongs to institute of chartered accountants of USA and why the heck ICAP used the word " International" if you're right about what you said? Of course they (ICAP) have prodigious knowledge than us and how could they make mistake? This forum really double minds you and true is what Waldo said " follow your own track". My bro has a friend who's been earning around 9000 bucks and he IS a chartered accountant but from ICAI and he works in NASDAQ, now whats that? I really was going to join ICAP because it is one of the most intelligent, and in the world, ain't it? Of course we just can't ignore it. And i have a problem with ACCA and ACMA, they are way less paid than CAs or CPAs. This is the genuine statement i read on there
Why Choose ICAP
The Institute of Chartered Accountants of Pakistan (ICAP)
is a professional body of Chartered Accountants in Pakistan, and represents accountants employed in public practice, business and industry, and the public and private sectors. The Institute is a member of the International Federation of Accountants (IFAC) which is the global organization for the accountancy profession.

“ICAP has approx. 4,000 members who are currently working in 35 countries worldwide. With thousands of students joining our prestigious fraternity, we offered approx. 300 ambassadors to the local and international market in the year 2006.”
then what is this? and another one is


Highly Rewarding

Chartered Accountancy is a highly rewarding field. Not only are our ambassadors earning the highest salaries in the market but also high level prestige and respect. Salaries of other professionals generally end where the salaries of Chartered Accountants start. Additionally as auditors you would be expected to offer a number of accounting and audit solutions, implement standards and practice business ethics that fuels your self-respect.

Top Management

Unlike yesteryears when Chartered Accountants were considered as backroom clerks with their heads buried in the books of accounts; today our professionals are leading the market as frontline managers. The incorporation of the technical and management skills in both our academic and training curriculum has brought Chartered Accountancy out from behind the stage to the front as CFOS, CEOs, Company Secretaries and Department Heads.

Mobility

Chartered Accountancy is marking its own borders. You study here and practice your qualification in any country of the world. Currently 24% of our Chartered Accountants are setting examples of best professional practices in 35 countries of the world. Even switching organizations is frictionless so you may start in the public sector or business and later join any banks, financial institutions or trade.


this is in the catogory " Why Chartered Accountancy" which is a sub-catagory in "CA"?

[Toronto_Boy]

Dear

First of all, choice is always yours. I am not here to evaluate claims of any professional institute of the world. They are all good. If you wanna join ICAP, go ahead and join it. No doubt you would get quality education.

Further, I am asuming that you are currently residing in NC, NOT in Pakistan, and more likely to work in States.

If am not wrong there are about 195 countries in the world including US. So, the term "international" includes all other countries like middle eastern countries etc.

The countries which have their own professional accounting bodies always require membership of their accounting association for Audit jobs. For non-audit jobs employers have more trust on qualifications of that country so prefer membership of their own qualifications. US employers DO NOT prefer accounting qualification of any other country over CPA.

I don't know, how come you are living in States and haven't heard about preference of CPA and came up with unique idea of other qualifications over CPA. Vast majority of American public even don't know about other qualifications except CPA. Isn't it amazing that you are raised, got schooling in States, and likely to work in States and figuring out options with Non-US qualifications. Do you think that American employers would prefer your Non-American qualification over their own CPA.

Dear, its Americans who have done and leading most of the modern reasearch in almost every field of knowledge in modern times. Same is the case with modern research in the field of accounting and finance. AICPA (for CPAs) adopts this research. Later on all other associations of world adopt and adjust that reasearch as per their country's local requirements. Do you think that an adoptee would do better than the original research?

I don't know why you are bringing ICAI in your discussion. If you are of Pakistani origin living in States then you should talk about US or Pakistani qualifications, not the qualification that you cannot earn being Pakistani. Moreover, I know an ICAI member here in Canada who is in trucking business and certainly making more than what you have mentioned but it has nothing to do with his ICAI's CA.

As long as I know, each professional qualification requires a bachelors degree including ICAP or CICA. So you must have to complete that no matter whether you like it or not.

However, cab license can be earned without bachelors degree.

Similarly, most of the States these days require 150 credit hours of university/ college education besides bachelors degree JUST TO SIT in CPA exams. These 150 credit hours are equivalent to about 5 years of university/college schooling after grade 12. There are some other requirements too. So don't take it that easy.

Earnings in life depends upon many factors (like hardwork, personality, communication skills, experience etc.) among which most important is destiny and luck. It is amazing, you say absolute statements that ACCAs and ACMAs earn less than CPAs or CAs. As per your own statement, you are in grade 12. I would say that hold these big statements till you have some years of post qualification professional experience. Further, let me tell you that in high earning jobs, qualification is only a part of job requirements. No employer gives you big bucks just on basis of membership of a professional association.

CICA (Canada), ICAA (Australia), ICAI (Ireland), CA of Mexico, and if I am not wrong CPA (Australia) too have mutual recognition agreement with CPA (USA) called reciprocity. Members of these bodies (including CICA) would have to take just one reciprocity (IQEX) exam to get CPA, and vice versa. BUT all of these bodies too (including CICA) needs a bachelors degree to complete CA of these bodies in first place.

Let me explain you one more thing assuming you are currently in NC. ICAP requires 3 to 3.5 years experience in ICAP approved CA training firms in Pakistan. During that time students get Pak Rs. 6000 per month (Approx US $70 per month) as stipend. So, you would have to move back to Pakistan, find a training contract in Pakistani public accounting firm, and have to complete this length of experience with Pak Rs. 6000/ month, in addition to passing all modules and completing bachelors degree.

I am not aware of any CA institute in States. There are many professional associations in States in almost every field. Though CMA (IMA) is also a prestigious US accounting associations, but CPA has major chunk of accounting jobs in States. There could be two types of "recognition" i.e legal requirements or recognition and market recognition. In States, CPA is legally required to do audits and audit jobs. Similarly, as US employers have more trust on CPA and know more about CPAs they require them for almost all Non-Audit accounting jobs too. This is market recognition. Except CPA or CMA, no other accounting qualification has general recognition and acceptance for US accounting jobs.

By the way, are you sure that you are currently residing in NC? Similarly, are you sure that you are genuinely seeking to know which qualification to go for in States? You know what I mean. [)]

I hope it helps. Again, choice is always yours.

Regards

[Toronto_Boy]

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, san" id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by salmanthevalor</i>
<br />i been living in charlotte, north carolina since my birth and i been thinking for a few days about moving back to pakistan and do CA. I am Sophomore(last year in high school). now what i'm gonna ask is a little bit foolish because i can easily do CPA from south california and i been hearing about that you can't get a job just with CA(chartered ACCOUNTANCY) here. so well is it wise to do CPA after CA and do they give a CA some relaxation or certain exemptions if he intends to do CPA? and how much time is it gonna take?toronto boy, whoever you are , i found your answers helpful so please answer mine!
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Wait, wait, wait.

You said you are living in North Carolina. Then you say you can do CPA easily from South California.

Where is this State "South California". All I know is California. Dear Mr. Valor, would mind sharing the geographical location of this newest State "South California" with us. [)]

Are you really residing in States? OR are you really a US citizen?

[salmanthevalor]

Yes i am sure that i am living in NC. Dear Bro ( not to speak redneck English or speak in gangsta style), I am sure you don't trust me. No matter how much I tell you about South California, you won't trust because you have only heard or read that work from my side. So I'll give you something square,strong and firm. And by the way, Los Angeles is in South or southern California. So here it is http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_California .Every straight, curved or oval body has edges extended towards in some direction that may be south, north and east or west. California as a whole is known as California but when we refer to some particular direction, we can't express it by just saying California. So see the site for yourself.

Secondly, You said that ALL americans know about CPA, i would say you're on the verge of extremely wrong viewpoint. Most of the ABORIGINAL Americans don't even know what an absolute English Grammar is. They will confuse you or make you lose your mind in their statements if you're a newbie in american society or you've never had the experience of living in America before. Most don't even know that there is any such country as pakistan in the world. Last year, We( i and some of my american friends) went on WILD goose chase to Kalamazoo(Michigan) because we're kinda bad asses lol. And What I saw there is that i had to explain what PAKISTAN is to every new person I met and i had tell what pakistan is on the first date since we didn't talk too much before that and she was a country girl. In cities, i don't say ALL, but some are still out there who don't know. They are brainwashed from rock and rap. All of my high school fellows are more into Entertainment than into thinking about their future and of course who will until they find themselves trapped. All they know is what is mariah carey wearing today, i want to be second lady gaga, who's riding the radio today. So dear bro, don't say that Americans necessarily know about EVERYTHING. ONLY and ONLY the people who are more into governmental thing or politics know about the world. Let me tell you about a funny experience we( Dad, I and Mom) had back in 2004. We took off to British Columbia for a Polar-Bear-Hunt. And of course my dad had to apply for the license which included that you ONLY can hunt a polar bear and not grizzly bear which are found there but RARELY because they are not used to the colder regions and they sometimes mistakenly enter into the polar bears region. So on third day, we went into office of wildlife along with my mom to get a license. We sat down in the lobby to wait for our # to show up on the counter. Some men started chat with my dad and mom intervened. They began to ask us if we were hispanics but dad told them we are Pakistani-Americans. Their next question was what is pakistani? or pakistan. Dad had to explain the whole thing. Later on, we came to know that the man who asked that question was a PROFESSOR of some university and was a doctor of Applied Linguistics( which i didn't what it was at that time). Mom even told him what an ignoramus he is, and later whispered that what an Ahole! and the lobby was raised up with laughter. So bro, No one necessarily knows everything of posibly know everything. My friends call me freak because I ain't into girls too much after the last experience.

thirdly, I can do CPA here but that needs a college degree and I don't need one. ICAP allows the high school graduates ( see for yourself). I want quick results. And of course every one does. So later on i can convert it to CPA. ICAP got my attentioon because thats in my home country and my sister is doing Tele-communication engineering from MIT, Boston, MA. And dad is already paying her dues which are more that $70k per year ( two semesters) and its her third year which drained him financially but no matter what, he wants her to complete it. So i don't want to put burden on him. I thought about CICA at first but then ignored it because he might deny my request because of all the burden he has on his shoulders. Mom does a job also but it is just to support the family, not fit for paying any kind of dues. Dad is Civil Engineer with PMP(project management) and he's a project manager in some company. He worked for ARAMCO( oil company of saudi arabia) in jeddah for 5 years and earned a BIG fortune there. Yes i have been living here but i do visit pakistan, do you think we have left pakistan? certainly not. last time we visited pakistan in 2005. So please don't make foolish judgments, not intended an offence.

My dad came here long time ago back in 80s and married a hispanic woman who is now my mom (lol).

So it is likely that he won't be able to pay my dues and expenses of living in Canada or Ireland( ireland is cheap though) so i am thinking about ICAP and then go back to US and try to inter-mix it into CPA.
But i am looking for a way to at least ask my dad to see what he says. Mom say they will afford it but i know at some point they will ask me to come back to US from Canada and left the whole thing in middle. Pakistan is at least my home country and it ain't that much expensive either. So I was looking for a way out.

My ALL family, Grand-dad, aunt etc are here and they are very few in pakistan.

PS I don't want to do CPA right now because that requires college graduates and ICAP doesn't, if you don't believe it, see for yourself in the eligibility corner.

Have a good night!

[Toronto_Boy]

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, san" id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by salmanthevalor</i>
<br />Yes i am sure that i am living in NC. Dear Bro ( not to speak redneck English or speak in gangsta style), I am sure you don't trust me. No matter how much I tell you about South California, you won't trust because you have only heard or read that work from my side. So I'll give you something square,strong and firm. And by the way, Los Angeles is in South or southern California. So here it is http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_California .Every straight, curved or oval body has edges extended towards in some direction that may be south, north and east or west. California as a whole is known as California but when we refer to some particular direction, we can't express it by just saying California. So see the site for yourself.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

My Dear

I am asking a very simple question. Is this "South California" a State? Does it award CPA license? Please answer in Yes or No. Simple.

Now brother, you are telling me that every geographical area has north, south, east, and west. So, perhaps southern california is a separate state that awards CPA. For your clarification, I am copying this passage from the same link you have provided above. "Southern California (SoCal) is a megaregion, or megapolitan area, in the southern area of the U.S. state of California. Large urban areas include Greater Los Angeles, Greater San Diego, and the Inland Empire. The urban area stretches along the coast from Ventura through the Southland and Inland Empire to San Diego, spilling over the border into Tijuana. Southern California, along with the San Francisco Bay Area, is a major cultural and economic center for the State of California and beyond." http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_California

Dear, in the end State of California awards CPA license, NOT "Southern California" which is a megarigion or metropolitan area, and NOT the State itself. Please see all the Boards of Accounting which award CPA license. http//www.aicpa.org/InterestAreas/PeerReview/Community/Pages/ypsboa.aspx

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, san" id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by salmanthevalor</i>

Secondly, You said that ALL americans know about CPA, ... Most don't even know that there is any such country as pakistan in the world. Last year, We( i and some of my american friends) went on WILD goose chase to Kalamazoo(Michigan) because we're kinda bad asses lol. And What I saw there is that i had to explain what PAKISTAN is ... So dear bro, don't say that Americans necessarily know about EVERYTHING. ... They began to ask us if we were hispanics but dad told them we are Pakistani-Americans. Their next question was what is pakistani? or pakistan. Dad had to explain the whole thing. Later on, we came to know that the man who asked that question was a PROFESSOR of some university and was a doctor of Applied Linguistics( which i didn't what it was at that time). Mom even told him what an ignoramus he is, and later whispered that what an Ahole! and the lobby was raised up with laughter. So bro, No one necessarily knows everything of posibly know everything. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

My friend, you wrote about me, "Secondly, You said that ALL americans know about CPA,...". My dear fellow, could you please show me where in my post I wrote that "ALL americans know about CPA". Perhaps, you did not read my above posts carefully. All I wrote was, "Vast majority of American public even don't know about other qualifications except CPA". Do you know what the difference is between "ALL" and "vast majority".

My dear, you wrote a long para about ignorance of american public about Pakistan and provided a personal experience that even educated people don't know about Pakistan. So, I have a very simple question to you. If they don't even know about Pakistan, then would they trust your Pakistani qualification? Would they treat your Pakistani qualification equal to their own qualification i.e. CPA? Dear, this is the simple point I am trying to explain you.

Then my friend, you further asume about me, "So dear bro, don't say that Americans necessarily know about EVERYTHING". and "So bro, No one necessarily knows everything of posibly know everything."

I am amazed. Could you please let me know where did I write that "Americans know everything"? I don't know how did you get this impression about me. In-fact the whole purpose of my post was to explain you the same point that American public and employers would NOT KNOW about your Pakistani designation if you would need to work in States.

Dear let me make it clear to you as you have talked about big bucks and career. One may not excel in career these days without having a degree be it Pakistan, USA, or any other country. Eventually one would have to have a degree specially if he/she wanna work in USA in the field of accounting. This is an essential part of the qualification and job requirement. You are free to learn this fact your way if you don't wanna listen it from someone else.

If you can live in Pakistan for extended period and your ultimate goal is to work in US and you don't wanna go for a degree in States due to financial reasons then you should consider 4 or 5 years (equivalent to 120 or 150 Cr. Hrs.) relevant degree from any Pakistani Higher Education Commission (HEC) approved university in Pakistan. American Boards of Accounting accept Pakistani university degrees (HEC approved) to write CPA exams. Once you would be CPA, American employers would not stress upon the origin of degree.

By the way no one is asuming that you have left Pakistan. You have every right to go to Pakistan for living, study, job, or any other good reason. You are as Pakistani as anyone else.

Again, as I said earlier, choices are always yours. My sole intention was to explain you whatever I know as in your initial post you wrote my ID. My assumption is that you wanna ultimately live and work in States with generally acceptable qualification to US employers.

These last lines are for my ICAP friends and students. Dears, the whole purpose of my posts on this particular thread was for a US citizen who wanna live and work in States ultimately. So, please ignore my comments if you don't like anything. These were not intended for you.

I hope it helps.

Regards for all

[Toronto_Boy]

You better ask your question at CPANET forum which is a forum of CPA candidates from US. As majority of candidates are senior level students, working in US CPA firms, and living in States, you would likely get better answer regarding acceptance of your potential non-US qualification by US employers in future. Following is the link;

http//www.cpanet.com/cpa_forum/default.asp

[salmanthevalor]

Hey

South California is not an isolate state. We just call it for the sake of directions and also because major chunk of all of the activities like business or educational activities happen there. I mentioned in the fir para that california as a whole is know as california. It ain't a separate state. There is also a north california, so does that make california two different states? Of course NOT! You asked that may be because in asia people don't use these things very often, like we use pounds here and they say kilo-gram to indicate the mass(weight is mass is physics[)]) If they are two states then it hasn't been announced yet and we haven't heard it!![)] And i said "South California" because, as i said, all of the things happen THERE.



Can you give me an advice? should i get some degree in accounting and then do CPA? or should i force my family to let me move to canada for CICA? (Since CA doesn't require college graduates).and do they give exemptions to students who hold accounting degrees like they (ICAP) give exemption of three papers to MBAs in Pakistan?

Reverence and Regards!

[salmanthevalor]

and by the way, are you a CA from CICA?

[Toronto_Boy]

Dear

Based on the assumptions that you are currently residing in US and ultimately wanna live and work in States, I have already suggested you whatever I thought was better for you i.e. degree in accounting or with relevant majors with 120 or 150 Cr. Hrs. so you would be later on eligible to write CPA which is a professional qualification of your own country.

Canada is an expensive country too and CICA also requires 4 years Bachelors degree to start CA program. Please search their website for details.

First of all, try to search in-expensive State college or university in USA. If you could not find any State, University or College funding in States then working and saving some money could be one option or you can go for part time studies with part time work in States. Otherwise you may also consider going to any South American country or Mexico to complete your degree with less cost. Pakistan could be another option to get a degree.

Dear, the whole world goes to States to study without having much finances in pocket and without legal status to work legally, and you are assessing to go out of States. Think about it again and discuss with your family how to live, work, and complete your studies while living in your own country. At the end, if you could not find any thing, then assess other options to go out for studies. Remember you would have to face many other difficulties in any other country than your own as you are not used to.

If I would be in your place, I would complete my degree in States from in-expensive but accredited US college or university, and then I would go for CPA.

I have nothing else to say. Have a good luck.

By the way, I am a CPA living and working in Canada.

Best Wishes

[salmanthevalor]

and icap also requires bachelors? I don't think so as i got an online friend there doing it and he is just a high school graduate. And i am thinking of BBA, how will be that? sorry for being so inquisitive, i've just got curious mind.

[salmanthevalor]

just asking i just want to get away for a while. so can u tell me without minding me ask question that if i do my ca from icap, and then come back to here and take cpa exams, would they still demand 150 credit hrs of college even after knowing that i done a ca? sorry but i thnk i dont want to go to college and afterall cpa will be much easier after ca, so is this good idea? and please answer about the credit hrs thing.

[noman]

salman dude.....i am in last module icap CA and done with my 3.5 years training....
my plain and simple advice to you is.....Dont' Do It...

torontoboy has the relevant knowledge about north america so do what he says.....i know about pakistan and i can say to u with 100% confidence that coming to pakistan to do CA of ICAP is big NO.

[umairsiddiki]

Assalamualaikum all, Let me introduce myself to you all, I am a CA Finalist (one paper remaining)from ICAP. B.Comm from Pakistan, PIPFA Qualified and CIA Qualified as well.

I have a question , I want to do CPA Australia (as in long term, I intend to shift to Australia), please tell me any convenient route for achieving it. I first thought of doing CPA US,as I have heard that CPA Australia have a reciprocal agreement with CPA US. Would that be a reasonable route.

Alternatively, If I would directly apply to CPA Australia for claiming some exemptions on the basis of my recent qualifications.

I will be looking forward for your reply in this regard.


Kind Regards
Muhammad Umair Siddiqui