ICAP's Passing Criteria

Bowman · 08-07-2003, 02:57 PM

I hear a lot of you people talking about ICAP's passing policy.

Well I have heard the following from a Baba who was also at one time in the Council. He told me once that the passing marks remains changing and depends upon the qaulity of paper and students response to that paper i.e. if the paper is a toughy, passing marks are lower and if a paper is easy, the passing criteria goes above. Further, he elaborated that passing marks are based on the average performance of examinees i.e. say 1000 students gave the exams, their papers were marked and simple average of their marks was computed which comes to say 65, now all the students getting above 65 are passed and below are failed.

Personally I have witnessed the same thing. I was refereed in a paper when I was 100% confident that the least I will get will be 70 and similarly in my other exams, i performed lower to my own expectations but was above the average, so I passed.

Seems like fair and square to me <img src=icon_smile.gif border=0 align=middle>

I believe that the above method, if used by ICAP is right. Also consider the worth of CA as compared to other professionals. Who wants to see a qualified CA to end up like MBA or Doctors or Engineers or Indian CAs????

Evolution · 08-07-2003, 04:21 PM

I agree 100% mate. U just hit the jackpot.

sumaaan · 08-08-2003, 03:34 AM

Interesting... But still extremely weird & unprofessional I must say...

If ICAP wishes to examine students on the overall performance of candiates, why don't they start operating on a 'percentile' basis rather than 'percentage' just like GCE O & A levels students are marked...

Whatever their criteria might be, they should at least make it clear to the students... Coz when at the same time you see the ACCA examination papers, they are of a certain 'standard' with the passing marks mentioned as they operate in a 'percentage' scenario. (I'm not comparing ICAP with ACCA, just giving a fair example)

smraza · 08-08-2003, 04:29 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
Interesting... But still extremely weird & unprofessional I must say...

If ICAP wishes to examine students on the overall performance of candiates, why don't they start operating on a 'percentile' basis rather than 'percentage' just like GCE O & A levels students are marked...

Whatever their criteria might be, they should at least make it clear to the students... Coz when at the same time you see the ACCA examination papers, they are of a certain 'standard' with the passing marks mentioned as they operate in a 'percentage' scenario. (I'm not comparing ICAP with ACCA, just giving a fair example)

<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

Dear sumaaan, if you are not comparing ACCA and ICAP then what does the word comparison mean,
in my opinion, ACCA cannot be compared with CA at all, bcaz in ACCA you have well defined syllabus, and the examiner dont plays with your mind, and paper is being prepared within that syllabus, but in CA whatever book you read, you feel a day before examination that you are not prepared, so if you are not so sure about your preparation, then how can u be so sure about the result??

On the other hand, dear bowman, that Baba doesnt know the policy of ICAP, thats why he is out of the council <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>, yar its totally dependent upon the law of demand and supply of economics, (like somebody already mentioned in any other forum),

and dear sumaaan jee, i think ICAP is right at its policy (although i am also victim of its policy), bcaz this is the reason that unemployment level of CA is Zero %, you will never find any CA seeking for a job, but u will find CAs doing more than one jobs,

can you tell me how much a CA gets in our neighbour country(india)???

and furthermore, Bowman, i personally experienced the situation in CA results that, in an attempt, i was expecting that i ll pass the paper, but i failed, and when i attempted 70% paper i cleared that paper (when i was sure nobody is gonna pass me in that paper), can guess the ICAP's policy from above situation ?????

S M R

sumaaan · 08-08-2003, 05:33 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
Interesting... But still extremely weird & unprofessional I must say...

If ICAP wishes to examine students on the overall performance of candiates, why don't they start operating on a 'percentile' basis rather than 'percentage' just like GCE O & A levels students are marked...

Whatever their criteria might be, they should at least make it clear to the students... Coz when at the same time you see the ACCA examination papers, they are of a certain 'standard' with the passing marks mentioned as they operate in a 'percentage' scenario. (I'm not comparing ICAP with ACCA, just giving a fair example)

<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

Dear sumaaan, if you are not comparing ACCA and ICAP then what does the word comparison mean,
in my opinion, ACCA cannot be compared with CA at all, bcaz in ACCA you have well defined syllabus, and the examiner dont plays with your mind, and paper is being prepared within that syllabus, but in CA whatever book you read, you feel a day before examination that you are not prepared, so if you are not so sure about your preparation, then how can u be so sure about the result??

On the other hand, dear bowman, that Baba doesnt know the policy of ICAP, thats why he is out of the council <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>, yar its totally dependent upon the law of demand and supply of economics, (like somebody already mentioned in any other forum),

and dear sumaaan jee, i think ICAP is right at its policy (although i am also victim of its policy), bcaz this is the reason that unemployment level of CA is Zero %, you will never find any CA seeking for a job, but u will find CAs doing more than one jobs,

can you tell me how much a CA gets in our neighbour country(india)???

and furthermore, Bowman, i personally experienced the situation in CA results that, in an attempt, i was expecting that i ll pass the paper, but i failed, and when i attempted 70% paper i cleared that paper (when i was sure nobody is gonna pass me in that paper), can guess the ICAP's policy from above situation ?????

S M R
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

The thing which is wrong cannot, I repeat cannot, be justified by expressing its benefits ONLY. As much as I disagree with ICAPs passing students policy, I actually myself admire it UNFORTUNATELY.

BUT if ICAP doesn't want to pass a lot of students so that the 'significance' of CA doesnt melt like that of MBA and MBBS, why can't they make the examinations tougher or operate on a proper 'percentile' basis while checking the exams?!...
At least they'll be able to justify their actions and at the same time maintain the 'worth' of CA by keeping the unemployment rate to 0% as mentioned a hundred times by our forum members.

Bowman · 08-08-2003, 03:13 PM

Agreed that the Law of Demand and Supply exists (and I am all for it) but the passing criteria used by ICAP is a good one. So that only above average students passes. I have experienced what you are experiencing and you will get through it and then become an admirer like me <img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>

As far as letting students know about the criteria is concerned, ICAP doesnât need to justify it to anyone. Just like in the university exams, the examiner needs not to justify his markings. In university too, you have a right to recount only and not remarking.
Why should they?? There is nothing mandatory to do soâ¦..

In India, CA are like MBAâ¦â¦ so far I think about 42,000 have been passed from ICAI and their average salary is under 10,000â¦(I know a person in India who employed a qualified CA at Rs 5,000 on a part-time basis).. â¦..In Middle east, they are ready to work at 2/2.5k dirhams . Compare that to a Pakistani CAâ¦..even in these days, a fresh CA is able to get +25k in Pakistan and 6/7+k in Middle east.

Surely if ICAP starts to pass everyone who is getting 50% or more (like ACCA), the CA will be dozen a dime and will worth what???????

What do u say!!!!!!!!!!!!/?????

sumaaan · 08-08-2003, 08:18 PM

Again... Who's asking ICAP to pass students who get 50% or more?...Why don't they just purely start marking on 'percentiles system' then?

Well ofcourse, when we have a 'why' in our 'answer', we don't expect anything from babas-i-icap. <img src=icon_smile.gif border=0 align=middle>

agshaheryar · 08-08-2003, 09:57 PM

Hi all,

A lot of discussion is going on the Icap's passing policy. I just want to say one must concentrate on his study policy. When u are a student of a professional institute like ICAP you must be confident. U must plan your studies & find out the reasons of your failure. Nobody is going to pass you if u are doing nothing to get passing marks. U pass only because u did satisfactory to the examiner's mind.

shaheryar

smraza · 08-11-2003, 04:48 PM

Yar Sheheryar, then the examiner's mentality must be mentioned on the question paper so we can attempt the paper according to that <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>

The another most important factor of not passing CA students is the revenue generated by icap from the again and again failed students.

There are other means to keep the demand and supply level of CA, the ICAP must Pass the students who have secured 60% marks or 50% whatever, but it should not allow the qualified persons to take membership until they have got the job of minimum of Rs.25,000/-

what do u think people if ICAP do so ???????????

S M R

Bowman · 08-11-2003, 08:51 PM

That will be Absurd.......

montesir · 10-27-2003, 02:46 PM

how does the percentile system work..... anyone?<img src=icon_smile_question.gif border=0 align=middle>

FCA

smraza · 10-27-2003, 04:36 PM

One thing I would like to add,
People who are still appearing in ICAP exmas, they must read the "Examiner's Comments" in the Accountant (Magazine issued by ICAP) sometimes you get beneficial points from his comments, He discusses each and every question asked in the attepmt.

S M R

sumaaan · 10-27-2003, 11:24 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
how does the percentile system work..... anyone?<img src=icon_smile_question.gif border=0 align=middle>

FCA
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

Marking of examination through a percentile system involves drafting of a graph with Marks Achieved against Number of Students. Its different from the percentage method where the calculation is based on the formula

(marks obtained/maximum marks) x 100

Maximum marks donot count much in the percentile method of marking. However, the maximum number of marks obtained by a student makes the 'base marks' point. For instance, in an examination which is of 100 marks, the highest marks obtained by any student is 85, then a slight percentage above 85 (found through the graph) lets say 90 is considered 'base marks'/maximum marks. Hence, all the students are then marked like this

(marks obtained/90) x 100

The pratical implementation of the percentile system is however a bit different as it is found through a graph and not by normal calculation as shown above. The above example was stated just to clarify the 'basic' difference between percentage and percentile.

jbladeus · 10-28-2003, 03:25 AM

Nice description of the percentile system sumaaan... thnx

this cleared a lot of things for me.

________________________
Arrrgh... it sure's gonna be mighty rough sailin' today ... mates!

smraza · 10-28-2003, 05:38 AM

Hey sumaaan,
Its interesting, can u tell me the name of country where this system is followed ??

S M R