Proud to be a Pakistani

ehson · 06-02-2005, 11:30 PM

<blockquote id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by lion_king
 .....when the first world war started there was khalifat in turkey that sided with germany ....<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Dear friend, the point is the concept of Khilafa can not be properly implemented with so many national divisions (e.g. countries) in various parts of the world. For all the Muslim Ummah there has to be one Khilafa at a time.
Second point is that the Khilafa of Turkey you are reffering to might not be a true picture of the Khilafa as the Ottoman empire was actually shrinking and only Turkey was left to be removed from this empire. Nationalism has been by that time injected into people and the rulers rather than the collective thinking of the Ummah.

<blockquote id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by lion_king
 ehson
well u take to much side of khilafat have u ever thought about it with a moderate mind and not with that of a fundamental mind......<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">First kindly tell me what is wrong with being fundamentalist. You see the westren media has given a negative connotation to this perticular word. The literal mean of the word fundamentalist areA usually religious movement or point of view characterized by a return to fundamental principles, by rigid adherence to those principles, and often by intolerance of other views and opposition to secularism.
so according to the defination I say all my actions are based upon a single point (therefore i obviously return to this point) and that point is the divine guidance.
And I'm off course intolerant to the other viewpoints becuase I can see many things which are for social and individual distrution in thier views(porposed mothods). So what is wrong with that?

<blockquote id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by lion_king
 in pakistan we have so much issues relating to the punjabi,pathan,sindi, balochi, muhajir,sarayki and so on.....<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">The point is my brother that who constitutes the sindi, balochi, nahajir, sarayiki and other population. You and I do. Suppose it is a single country two individual model. You and I agree on a similar thing would there be problems like this? The problem for the time being is that we are to be brought at a single point. And who has made us hate eachother (e.g. punjabi, sindhi etc) our ignorance has. Had we been close to Islam, do you think this would have happened?

<blockquote id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by lion_king
 is it possible in this time to have a khilafat system comprising of all the muslim countries......i think its not possibleat this time.....we have so much differences amoung us......for khilafat then there would be wars the arabs would say that the khalifa should be from them ,pakistanis would want that the khalifa should be from pak and similarly indonesia,malaysia, iran, bangladesh would want the same for there own countries........it will create a much more hovac in the islamic world than that we r facing it today.........<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">You've discussed on probabiltiy only. You see once you become aware of the Muslim teaching and ideology things like this wont happen. The point currently we have examples like the MMA and we think since they are currupt and hungry for the power, same would be the case later. But not to forget history has shown us the Khilafa Rule to most successfull till today. And why were there no fights at that time?
Point two, it does seem next to impossible. Now I've two options one i sit back becuase it is difficult to be done. second, atleast I speak about it where ever I get a chance. Which one do you thin is better?

<blockquote id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by lion_king
 secondly if we make khilafat as our ruling system.....who will initiate this step....as all the muslims r divided in sects religious(shia,sunni), political(religious,socalist), geographical(arabs,indo pak,indonesians,iranians and so on) and then even in a singal country there r a lot of tribes...........what u think of it.....<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Sects, I understand is a big problem. But I know many people who had left sects as they knew, their sects are not based on the truth. Secondly why cant we all belong to the sect of Muhammad(s). When did he ever said I'm a shiaite or a sunnite?

<blockquote id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by lion_king
 as far as i see the khilafat system can't be brought back by normal procedures it needs a revolution not only in a singal country but in all the islamic countries......have ur say
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">For revolution we need people who are convinced that this ideology is correct and only solution available. Let us start first step. Shall we?

<blockquote id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Pracs
 Very Good you Guys, Nice to see that the two of you have actually agreed. Interesting reading there too, I just had a couple of questions, that spring to mind when you speak of an Islamic Government a Caliphate.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">It is good to see that other people are participating in this as well. For a moment I thought we are alone

<blockquote id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Pracs
 Which country of the 50 plus muslim countries would you say is
relatively more of an Islamic Government ? Please bear in mind that the society is usually a good reflection of how an Islamic state and its benefits have seeped into fabric of society.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">If you ask my personal viewpoint. There is not single country in this world that can actually claim to be an Islamic state. You see being an Islamic state just becuase the majority of the population is Muslims is not a criteria to judge. We must judge these claims with the Quran and Sunnah. And have you seen a single country which is in allignment to that.

<blockquote id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Pracs
 And do you think that implementing the Caliphate would be a step by step thing. What ehson says would take more time, more time than one would have imagined.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">It is all the mater of conviction. When everyone is convinced, revolution would be triggered (as it has been happenin from the begining of the man kind) which would then reap the result. Now the porblem for the time being is that we are not convinced. And if we are, we think since it is difficult to achieve we plan not to do anything for it. So let us work in our individual capacity and pray to Allah(swt) for it.

<blockquote id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Pracs
 I for one believe that the ''Islamic Ummah'' concept is dead, I think the only actual Caliphate was during the time of the ''Khulfahae- Rashedeen'', thereon for the next thousand years were as golden only because of the initial system in place (which began to wither ofcourse). The Ottoman Caliphate (read sultanate) was a sorry sort of affairs, I can name a dozen Muslim countries today that are better Islamic Governments than the Mehmuds in Istanbul. Nor do I have any respect for the Monarchs of the Gulf and West Africa, or the socialist dictators, or military dictators, or for that matter most self actualising leaders in the Muslim world.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">You see as mentioned earlier if an individual didnt rule in the pure islamic way and claimed to be a Muslim that is not a fault of Islam. And I agree that the 'ummah' concept is almost dead. But brought it to this stage? and who can bring it back to life?

<blockquote id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Desert Sleet
 Welcome to the inconsistency of man made law, tomorrow Child abuse will be completely legal.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">I mean, you can obviously expect anything from the Democracy.

<blockquote id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Pracs
 The challenge for Muslims is to adhere to the fixed principles of Islam regardless of time or situations.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">And if you do that people would call you "fundamentalist" as if it is s'thing wrong/ill legar or pesimistic approach to the modren world.

<blockquote id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Pracs
 Democracy is often confused with the style of elections....<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">True that is

P.S. Good to see other people participating in this thread.