06-30-2005, 07:18 AM
Here is what I Think, and ofcourse I beg to differ
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Tahoma, Arial" id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by ehson</i>
Govt. of Pakistan does not offer the 'liberty of speaking'. I've mentioned that the editor of S A Tribune was tourchered for writting about the curroption stories of the current regime.
And I seriously didnt know about the Singapore and Malay policies. I'd taken aback by this information. But still these countries have done better than ours in lesser time than us, havent they?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Agreed, I know Govt.'s in Pakistan do all sorts of high handedness to quell opposition, but mind you none of that is legal, and Govt's in this country have been brought down because of their high handedness, come to think of it one Prime Minister was actually hanged on the pretext of being responsible for the Murder of a member of the Opposition. Ofcourse, none of it should be acceptable to us either ways.
When it comes to Malaysia and Singapore,.. you see their bright side,. you see the development and not the curb on personal liberty. Good I guess its rubbing into you, one day you will see the bright side to Pakistan as well,
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Tahoma, Arial" id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Again brother, I'm least concerned about the Indians, all that matters for me is how well my nation is doing and for some reason (probably becuase of the false stats published by the 'non indian' bodies) I can see that they are better of than us.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Come on you can do better than this,.. ''I can see that they are better than us ?" how dear brother, care to explain. They have an equal percentage of people living below the Poverty line, they have problems (as a country) the size of whole countries ! Say what you may you are just spell bound by their sheer size of propoganda, I can understand their media is oozing out of our ears and it does the most damage when people are young !
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Tahoma, Arial" id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Again I guess you'v got the wrong idea. I want to remove the weaknesses in my country. And (at least the KPI tell me) India is better of than Pakistan and the moment. Indian Govt. might have paid the whole world to rank them high, but they ranked higher than Pakistan. Now, I want to see my country better than thier's. If they are doing s'thing wrong, I'm least bothered. If they are doing s'thing better and Pakistan I certainly feel the pinch, because we in no manner have less resources than them, why than they should take the lead?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Well, yes Pakistanis are in many ways better than Indians. The geographical entities of India and Pakistan differ greatly though. India does have huge amounts of coal (industry grade), petroleoum and a host of other minerals which we do not have or so in small quantities. Plus, Plus they had a hundred head start in industrialisation alone !. Sadly that part is lost on most Pakistanis. What people fail to understand that they were the churning wheels of the British Empire (producing huge amount of semi finsihed material for the Her Majesty's industry). The Present day Pakistan and Bangladesh were more nothing more than British India's raw material grounds (wheat, cotton, rice and jute).
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Tahoma, Arial" id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">A friend of mine was suppose to be hired for Dhr 7K. But since one of the person in the interview pannel was an Indian he gave a cheaper alternative to the same firm. I seriously do not know it that is becuase of the status they enjoy or becuase of the fact that they want to do s'thing for thier fellow indians, but what I know is that it hurts people of my nation and that is all that concerns me.
Two I've known many cases where a Pakistani supervisor had avoided to hire a Pakitani subordinate, they have thier reason. But I've not heared much about an Indian not hiring his fellow indian. And one of my Uncle used to tell say you go to a restaurant in dxb one day and you'd find that they have hired a new indian waiter you pay a visit to the same place after 2 months you'd realise that everyone from top to bottom working there is an indian. How come Pakistani's dont bring in thier fellow brothers to earn some livelyhood, but the indians do.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Well cheap labour is cheap after all, I guess you have just seconded my point on the sorry state of affairs in the Indian Job Market, so I rest my case there.
Agree with you on one Indian in the firm down, and all... do you think that is fair at all ? I mean being proud of your country is one thing, helping out your country men is another thing but balatant discrimination against a more abler candidate just because he is not of your country is nothing to be proud about, lest follow it.
Agreed, you will find Pakistanis not hiring Pakistanis, because like you most of them are ashamed and run the dogma ''A Pakistani will just be a two timer conner, so I am better off hiring an Indian Maloo''. You know we are the only people in the world who some how (over my understanding though) make fun of ourselves and demean ourselves by calling all that is worst among us. Like wise, too many people think they are ashamed to be a Pakistani, need I say more.
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Tahoma, Arial" id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">
I dont dislike this country becuase we are inferior or becuase we are supperior from any other nation. You see as I've written many times earlier the point is we are not living like we should. Or atlease what I expect from my hometown. I want it to be like the days of Caliphate. Perhaps my expecations are too high, but that is what I want from my country and it is not impossible to achieve.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
My Friend Caliphate is an Utopia,. but lets not get into that anymore... Lets work for some thing closer to reality a Just Pakistan, a better Pakistan !
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Tahoma, Arial" id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"> ), you see its not that simple. As long as sisters in my country are raped, pepole are murdered, people kill themselves becuase of the fear of dying hungry and not being able to take care of thier family, untill the policeman stop selling themselves for as low as Rs 20, when the bearucrates stop filling thier pockets for not doing a greater good, untill the education becomes part of my every individual of this nation. I cant be proud, I'm sorry but if you are sitting on my side of the table you'd realise that you've been asked for too much.
I seriously do not understand why you people do not realise toward which direction we are moving. I know an animal who used to bring in a 14 year old to his flat have a good time with her and give her Rs 15. That 14 year old used to sell the fllowers on one of the signals in Lahore. But her desperation and hunger led her to sell her self for cheaper than flowers. My friend this is the nation you belong to. Had any of my family member being involved in the above case, I'd not have been proud of being a member of that family, infact it would have killed my inside, ever moment till I died.
And you take the case of being honored of being a member of a perticualr family as it is a must. Let me tell you my case, had my father brought a single penny of 'haram' money in the house and if he does that in future, I'd leave this family immidiatly and would not be proud of it. The only thing to bring me back would be returning the penny to whome it belongs to. That is what I want to do with my nation. If you on the other hand think that people who do all sorts of curroption have nothing to be ashamed off and if you think that thier younger generation should be pround of their ancestory then i'm sure they'd no longer consider robbing other as a matter of concern as they'd be proud of what they forefathers used to do. How shall we expect the change than?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Yes we have those things to be ashamed of, we need to work for a Just Pakistan ! but there is no reason to be ashamed !
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Tahoma, Arial" id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">My friend without the people of this nation, Pakistan is just a peice of land. If you want me to be proud of this peice of land and not taking the people of this nation into consideration than I sure am proud of it. You see this land is one the most fertile region, offers me four sessions, has a lot of natural wealth and what not and what not.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Good, agree on that.
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Tahoma, Arial" id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"> I think we need to understand that when we talk about Pakistan it mean the land itself and all the people who belong to this land. Otherwise, I dont see any point of getting into argument. I never said anything to the peice of land that is named as Pakistan, have I?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Yes we do, unfortunately you do not appreciate the wealth that the people are, don't let a few rotten apples con you into thinking the whole bunch is rotten.
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Tahoma, Arial" id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">You've a quite an interesting viewpoint. People and Land are two different things? I seem to fail in understand that. I'm sorry.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
State and Government are two different things. A Government runs the State ! you may not agree with the Govt. of Gen Musharaf or MMA running NWFP but will you go against the state by say, selling secrets to the enemy (so that the government of A or B goes down). Do you get my point there ?
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Tahoma, Arial" id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Using Africans instead of 'black' would have been a better idea.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Yeah Afro may be politically incorrect, but many Afros refer to themselves as Black, so did I. However, if I have offended any one I do appologise.
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Tahoma, Arial" id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">I've read the Auto Biography you are reffering me to. I guess you've missed out two very important points of his book
One Not at a single place has he writtne that he is pround to be a South African.
Two He was not satisfied with the way thing were being done in his country and he tried everything he could the change it. Had he said to himself 'I'm pround of what I'm' do you think things would have changed?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
On ONE Nelson Mandela and his people were prosecuted, enslaved and then left to rote on their own lands by a foreign colonial people. I hope no nation ever has to go through that ever again.
On two yes, he was proud to be an African ! he was not ashamed of what he was/is.
I guess we just see it differently
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Tahoma, Arial" id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Pracs</i>
<br />Proud to be a Pakistani !
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Matter of perception.
[/quote]
Proud to be a Pakistani, nothing in perception, just Proud to be a Pakistani
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Tahoma, Arial" id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by ehson</i>
Govt. of Pakistan does not offer the 'liberty of speaking'. I've mentioned that the editor of S A Tribune was tourchered for writting about the curroption stories of the current regime.
And I seriously didnt know about the Singapore and Malay policies. I'd taken aback by this information. But still these countries have done better than ours in lesser time than us, havent they?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Agreed, I know Govt.'s in Pakistan do all sorts of high handedness to quell opposition, but mind you none of that is legal, and Govt's in this country have been brought down because of their high handedness, come to think of it one Prime Minister was actually hanged on the pretext of being responsible for the Murder of a member of the Opposition. Ofcourse, none of it should be acceptable to us either ways.
When it comes to Malaysia and Singapore,.. you see their bright side,. you see the development and not the curb on personal liberty. Good I guess its rubbing into you, one day you will see the bright side to Pakistan as well,
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Tahoma, Arial" id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Again brother, I'm least concerned about the Indians, all that matters for me is how well my nation is doing and for some reason (probably becuase of the false stats published by the 'non indian' bodies) I can see that they are better of than us.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Come on you can do better than this,.. ''I can see that they are better than us ?" how dear brother, care to explain. They have an equal percentage of people living below the Poverty line, they have problems (as a country) the size of whole countries ! Say what you may you are just spell bound by their sheer size of propoganda, I can understand their media is oozing out of our ears and it does the most damage when people are young !
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Tahoma, Arial" id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Again I guess you'v got the wrong idea. I want to remove the weaknesses in my country. And (at least the KPI tell me) India is better of than Pakistan and the moment. Indian Govt. might have paid the whole world to rank them high, but they ranked higher than Pakistan. Now, I want to see my country better than thier's. If they are doing s'thing wrong, I'm least bothered. If they are doing s'thing better and Pakistan I certainly feel the pinch, because we in no manner have less resources than them, why than they should take the lead?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Well, yes Pakistanis are in many ways better than Indians. The geographical entities of India and Pakistan differ greatly though. India does have huge amounts of coal (industry grade), petroleoum and a host of other minerals which we do not have or so in small quantities. Plus, Plus they had a hundred head start in industrialisation alone !. Sadly that part is lost on most Pakistanis. What people fail to understand that they were the churning wheels of the British Empire (producing huge amount of semi finsihed material for the Her Majesty's industry). The Present day Pakistan and Bangladesh were more nothing more than British India's raw material grounds (wheat, cotton, rice and jute).
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Tahoma, Arial" id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">A friend of mine was suppose to be hired for Dhr 7K. But since one of the person in the interview pannel was an Indian he gave a cheaper alternative to the same firm. I seriously do not know it that is becuase of the status they enjoy or becuase of the fact that they want to do s'thing for thier fellow indians, but what I know is that it hurts people of my nation and that is all that concerns me.
Two I've known many cases where a Pakistani supervisor had avoided to hire a Pakitani subordinate, they have thier reason. But I've not heared much about an Indian not hiring his fellow indian. And one of my Uncle used to tell say you go to a restaurant in dxb one day and you'd find that they have hired a new indian waiter you pay a visit to the same place after 2 months you'd realise that everyone from top to bottom working there is an indian. How come Pakistani's dont bring in thier fellow brothers to earn some livelyhood, but the indians do.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Well cheap labour is cheap after all, I guess you have just seconded my point on the sorry state of affairs in the Indian Job Market, so I rest my case there.
Agree with you on one Indian in the firm down, and all... do you think that is fair at all ? I mean being proud of your country is one thing, helping out your country men is another thing but balatant discrimination against a more abler candidate just because he is not of your country is nothing to be proud about, lest follow it.
Agreed, you will find Pakistanis not hiring Pakistanis, because like you most of them are ashamed and run the dogma ''A Pakistani will just be a two timer conner, so I am better off hiring an Indian Maloo''. You know we are the only people in the world who some how (over my understanding though) make fun of ourselves and demean ourselves by calling all that is worst among us. Like wise, too many people think they are ashamed to be a Pakistani, need I say more.
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Tahoma, Arial" id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">
I dont dislike this country becuase we are inferior or becuase we are supperior from any other nation. You see as I've written many times earlier the point is we are not living like we should. Or atlease what I expect from my hometown. I want it to be like the days of Caliphate. Perhaps my expecations are too high, but that is what I want from my country and it is not impossible to achieve.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
My Friend Caliphate is an Utopia,. but lets not get into that anymore... Lets work for some thing closer to reality a Just Pakistan, a better Pakistan !
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Tahoma, Arial" id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"> ), you see its not that simple. As long as sisters in my country are raped, pepole are murdered, people kill themselves becuase of the fear of dying hungry and not being able to take care of thier family, untill the policeman stop selling themselves for as low as Rs 20, when the bearucrates stop filling thier pockets for not doing a greater good, untill the education becomes part of my every individual of this nation. I cant be proud, I'm sorry but if you are sitting on my side of the table you'd realise that you've been asked for too much.
I seriously do not understand why you people do not realise toward which direction we are moving. I know an animal who used to bring in a 14 year old to his flat have a good time with her and give her Rs 15. That 14 year old used to sell the fllowers on one of the signals in Lahore. But her desperation and hunger led her to sell her self for cheaper than flowers. My friend this is the nation you belong to. Had any of my family member being involved in the above case, I'd not have been proud of being a member of that family, infact it would have killed my inside, ever moment till I died.
And you take the case of being honored of being a member of a perticualr family as it is a must. Let me tell you my case, had my father brought a single penny of 'haram' money in the house and if he does that in future, I'd leave this family immidiatly and would not be proud of it. The only thing to bring me back would be returning the penny to whome it belongs to. That is what I want to do with my nation. If you on the other hand think that people who do all sorts of curroption have nothing to be ashamed off and if you think that thier younger generation should be pround of their ancestory then i'm sure they'd no longer consider robbing other as a matter of concern as they'd be proud of what they forefathers used to do. How shall we expect the change than?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Yes we have those things to be ashamed of, we need to work for a Just Pakistan ! but there is no reason to be ashamed !
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Tahoma, Arial" id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">My friend without the people of this nation, Pakistan is just a peice of land. If you want me to be proud of this peice of land and not taking the people of this nation into consideration than I sure am proud of it. You see this land is one the most fertile region, offers me four sessions, has a lot of natural wealth and what not and what not.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Good, agree on that.
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Tahoma, Arial" id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"> I think we need to understand that when we talk about Pakistan it mean the land itself and all the people who belong to this land. Otherwise, I dont see any point of getting into argument. I never said anything to the peice of land that is named as Pakistan, have I?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Yes we do, unfortunately you do not appreciate the wealth that the people are, don't let a few rotten apples con you into thinking the whole bunch is rotten.
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Tahoma, Arial" id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">You've a quite an interesting viewpoint. People and Land are two different things? I seem to fail in understand that. I'm sorry.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
State and Government are two different things. A Government runs the State ! you may not agree with the Govt. of Gen Musharaf or MMA running NWFP but will you go against the state by say, selling secrets to the enemy (so that the government of A or B goes down). Do you get my point there ?
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Tahoma, Arial" id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Using Africans instead of 'black' would have been a better idea.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Yeah Afro may be politically incorrect, but many Afros refer to themselves as Black, so did I. However, if I have offended any one I do appologise.
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Tahoma, Arial" id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">I've read the Auto Biography you are reffering me to. I guess you've missed out two very important points of his book
One Not at a single place has he writtne that he is pround to be a South African.
Two He was not satisfied with the way thing were being done in his country and he tried everything he could the change it. Had he said to himself 'I'm pround of what I'm' do you think things would have changed?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
On ONE Nelson Mandela and his people were prosecuted, enslaved and then left to rote on their own lands by a foreign colonial people. I hope no nation ever has to go through that ever again.
On two yes, he was proud to be an African ! he was not ashamed of what he was/is.
I guess we just see it differently
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Tahoma, Arial" id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Pracs</i>
<br />Proud to be a Pakistani !
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Matter of perception.
[/quote]
Proud to be a Pakistani, nothing in perception, just Proud to be a Pakistani
