07-13-2007, 05:56 PM
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Tahoma, Arial" id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Cool Lioness</i>
Mr. Schueab, Well i wont say that it was a PRE-PLANNED drama. I have a hunch that both Ghazi brothers had conflicts. Ghazi Rasheed seems to be innocent and soft hearted person where as the elder brother seems to be quite shrewd. How cum he being the Khatib of Mosque, initiating the whole problem, came out alive with his wife and kids. and how cum the Naib Khatib, MOulana Rasheed had to take over his brother's responsibilities and got killed at the end?. I am afraid that if the govt was involved in this whole incident then Moulana Aziz was a part of this game too. He knew what's going to happen.
Govt said again and again that she wanted to save the maximum number of lives. They said that there are a lot of innocent people inside , that includes kids, girls, ladies and some parents too. But the time when Moulana Rasheed was ready to talk, Mr Musharaf gave him an agreement with a time limit of 30 mins only, to say either Yes or No to his proposed conditions/agreement. Why so? Was he afraid to see that matter is going towards a peaceful solution? Why he did not tried to solve the problem with negotiation only? Why he did not give them atleast one more day to think on his proposed agreement????
YOu answer me by yourself, that if you were the person to decide that what could be the best solution to achieve this target, to safe maximum lives, what you would have done? If you ask me, i am sure that i would have accepted Moulana's demands. I would have agreed to give him safe passage and let him leave the islamabad, leave the charge of Madrisaas, drop all the weapons they had and let them go. Later on I being the Govt., could have used my CID force to follow them. But atleast i would have never decided to kill 1000 rather more people of my very own country. NO WAY......
figure of 1000 may be doesnt carry much value when you say it from mouth. but just imagine if 1000 bodies are lying in front of you, all soaked with humman blood. And that bodies include small kids too, atleast my heart will brust out from pain.
I feel that whatever you call this whole thing, drama or real inicident or whatever, but the innocent got killed and the culprits are still safe or actually in safe hands.
As far as America role is concerned, i am sure that while deciding about final operation, Musharaf only thought about smiling face of Bush and not crying eyes of his own country men. YOu say that Moulana was keeping the innocent kids as hostages to save his life. Tell me that hostage was better for those parents weeping outside, or this is now best for them that their own President ordered his troops to kill their kids in front of their eyes?????????? Do you think that Moulana would have ever killed any of those kids??????
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Dear Ms. Coolionness
First of all I would like to clarify some stats. 1,000 people were not killed in the incident. The death toll at the end of the whole episode is 109. This figure includes milliary people which are about 9 or 10, a couple of people or more from media, of course Ghazi himself and his millitant companions. This figure I think manly includes students which were at the outset declared as MUJAHIDINS and ended as hostages. And if someone thinks that 109 is not a very big figure, then he or she is seriously mistaken, 109 lives mean something.
Firstly please justify the case that the students who were initially the part of Ghazi's forces were at the end used by him as hostages to blackmail the govt to let him away.
Secondly, if Ghazi really wanted things to be settled safely without much life losses, were six months not enough for him to go for some peaceful solution. During this whole lal masjid episode both the ghazis repeatedly challenged the govt. I think such a large time frame provided to them is enough for anyone to assess that whether ghazis wanted a peaceful solution or not. At one time the govt is being blammed that why they waited of some less than six months for the operation and at the same time it is also being blammed that some more time should have been given to ghazi. Once again it defys all my logics.
What I assessed from your posts, you are not very much clear about what happened. Apparantly it seems that you think that Abdul Aziz was a part of this govt planned drama and Abdul Rasheed didnt know the game that was being planned. No one may ever know what were the real facts, however, I never think that this could be the case. And if think is for sure had Abdul Aziz been killed you alongwith a big majority had called him a shaheed.
You said that had you been in govt. you would have let Ghazi free, that is the reason that you are not the preident because that requires some mental maturity which in your case I hope will come with time.
I am never a supporter of govt. During the incident my observation regarding the thinking of Pakistani awam is that initially before the operation some were in the favour of Ghazis, as the considered this way of AMAR BIL MARUF fine. Then the operation started and many of those who initially supported ghazis were found saying that this is no way to impose Islam. Especially after the shamefull arrest of Abdul Aziz none of his supporters had anything to justify the case. And then as the things went on all the blames were shifted on govt. I too do blame the govt, however, it never means that the ghazis were justified in their mallicious act. And then Abdul Rasheed's death made him the hero as it is our tradition. PPPs fame increased many time due to the death sentence of Bhutto, Gen Zia who a pretty bad repute among masses was forgiven by the masses due to his tragic plane crash. Similarly Saddam's supported were once again given a chance to call him a hero upon his death. So we people are very courteous in this case.
Mr. Schueab, Well i wont say that it was a PRE-PLANNED drama. I have a hunch that both Ghazi brothers had conflicts. Ghazi Rasheed seems to be innocent and soft hearted person where as the elder brother seems to be quite shrewd. How cum he being the Khatib of Mosque, initiating the whole problem, came out alive with his wife and kids. and how cum the Naib Khatib, MOulana Rasheed had to take over his brother's responsibilities and got killed at the end?. I am afraid that if the govt was involved in this whole incident then Moulana Aziz was a part of this game too. He knew what's going to happen.
Govt said again and again that she wanted to save the maximum number of lives. They said that there are a lot of innocent people inside , that includes kids, girls, ladies and some parents too. But the time when Moulana Rasheed was ready to talk, Mr Musharaf gave him an agreement with a time limit of 30 mins only, to say either Yes or No to his proposed conditions/agreement. Why so? Was he afraid to see that matter is going towards a peaceful solution? Why he did not tried to solve the problem with negotiation only? Why he did not give them atleast one more day to think on his proposed agreement????
YOu answer me by yourself, that if you were the person to decide that what could be the best solution to achieve this target, to safe maximum lives, what you would have done? If you ask me, i am sure that i would have accepted Moulana's demands. I would have agreed to give him safe passage and let him leave the islamabad, leave the charge of Madrisaas, drop all the weapons they had and let them go. Later on I being the Govt., could have used my CID force to follow them. But atleast i would have never decided to kill 1000 rather more people of my very own country. NO WAY......
figure of 1000 may be doesnt carry much value when you say it from mouth. but just imagine if 1000 bodies are lying in front of you, all soaked with humman blood. And that bodies include small kids too, atleast my heart will brust out from pain.
I feel that whatever you call this whole thing, drama or real inicident or whatever, but the innocent got killed and the culprits are still safe or actually in safe hands.
As far as America role is concerned, i am sure that while deciding about final operation, Musharaf only thought about smiling face of Bush and not crying eyes of his own country men. YOu say that Moulana was keeping the innocent kids as hostages to save his life. Tell me that hostage was better for those parents weeping outside, or this is now best for them that their own President ordered his troops to kill their kids in front of their eyes?????????? Do you think that Moulana would have ever killed any of those kids??????
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Dear Ms. Coolionness
First of all I would like to clarify some stats. 1,000 people were not killed in the incident. The death toll at the end of the whole episode is 109. This figure includes milliary people which are about 9 or 10, a couple of people or more from media, of course Ghazi himself and his millitant companions. This figure I think manly includes students which were at the outset declared as MUJAHIDINS and ended as hostages. And if someone thinks that 109 is not a very big figure, then he or she is seriously mistaken, 109 lives mean something.
Firstly please justify the case that the students who were initially the part of Ghazi's forces were at the end used by him as hostages to blackmail the govt to let him away.
Secondly, if Ghazi really wanted things to be settled safely without much life losses, were six months not enough for him to go for some peaceful solution. During this whole lal masjid episode both the ghazis repeatedly challenged the govt. I think such a large time frame provided to them is enough for anyone to assess that whether ghazis wanted a peaceful solution or not. At one time the govt is being blammed that why they waited of some less than six months for the operation and at the same time it is also being blammed that some more time should have been given to ghazi. Once again it defys all my logics.
What I assessed from your posts, you are not very much clear about what happened. Apparantly it seems that you think that Abdul Aziz was a part of this govt planned drama and Abdul Rasheed didnt know the game that was being planned. No one may ever know what were the real facts, however, I never think that this could be the case. And if think is for sure had Abdul Aziz been killed you alongwith a big majority had called him a shaheed.
You said that had you been in govt. you would have let Ghazi free, that is the reason that you are not the preident because that requires some mental maturity which in your case I hope will come with time.
I am never a supporter of govt. During the incident my observation regarding the thinking of Pakistani awam is that initially before the operation some were in the favour of Ghazis, as the considered this way of AMAR BIL MARUF fine. Then the operation started and many of those who initially supported ghazis were found saying that this is no way to impose Islam. Especially after the shamefull arrest of Abdul Aziz none of his supporters had anything to justify the case. And then as the things went on all the blames were shifted on govt. I too do blame the govt, however, it never means that the ghazis were justified in their mallicious act. And then Abdul Rasheed's death made him the hero as it is our tradition. PPPs fame increased many time due to the death sentence of Bhutto, Gen Zia who a pretty bad repute among masses was forgiven by the masses due to his tragic plane crash. Similarly Saddam's supported were once again given a chance to call him a hero upon his death. So we people are very courteous in this case.
