08-11-2007, 06:07 PM
Dear Mazharje,
In spite of the ground realities to the contrary, I at the outset dont agree with your statement that Pakistan is a thrid class country. One can call it under-developed or un-developed but using the words "third class" is, in my eyes, in-appropriate. This would be a very lengthy discussion so I dont get into it.
Your question appears to be logical one at its outlook but if one will get into the roots of the things, he/she can understand the problems associated with allowing the ACCAs the public practice in Pakistan.
The major issue for you is that you dont belong to the profession of accountancy. Medical profession has nothing to do with varying level of rules, regulations, local laws, diversified accounting practices, variant regulations of central banks of different countries, penal codes, economical structures, monetary and fiscal policies and other such practices. It is substantially same all over the world except for the new developments and technoligical advancements in advanced countries for which the developing countries normally fall short of.
Medical profession in its entirety is same as far as school of thought is concerned. You are a doctor and can undertsnad it far better than me. However, if you compare allopathic with homeopathic, you will understand why homeo specialists are not comparable to you people. It does not mean at all that homeo would have no relevance in the field of medicine. Of course they have, but they cannot be appointed MS of a teaching hospital you know. This may help out you to understand the issue.
The above comparison of homeo and allopathic school of thoughts however does not materially resembles the nature of difference in CAs and ACCAs in Pakistan or any other country. Basically the CA profession is always chartered by a specific country's government under specific law to produce the professionals who can understand the structure of its own legality and statutes. This is the prerogative of every country to charter what it deems fit for its ownself. ACCA is not a chartered association at least in Pakistan. This has never been endorsed by any law of Pakistan. ACCA in Pakistan has recently been established as a company having no profit motive under section 42 of the companies ordinance, 1984. This is still a company in Pakistan and not a chartered Institute. Any association having any world wide setup cannot by force ask any country to do what such association deems fit. Rather, it is to be decided by the country itself. There are so many confidentialities which cannot be shared with foreign associations. (This is a general sentence and should not be specifically interpretted.) Similar things happen when an economy levies tarif protection to its own products. This has to be done to encourage own economy. This is not comparable with medical profession at all.
CA is not only meant for producing the accounts of some entity. Rather, it is a very wide ranging profession in which one gets the grasp on so many legal facets of his own economy. Laws specifically relating to corporate issues and taxation matters are normally very much complex and cannot be completely understood by some one who has not passed through the whole phase of training, education and on hand practices of such issues. As a homeo doctor cannot be trusted for open heart surgery of a heart patient (as it will certainly lead to the death of patient), the accountant who do not have an on-hand training in specific financial, economical and social environment, basic and detailed and in depth knowledge of all the pros and cons specific to the situation, cannot be trusted for providing the solutions of some corporate matters, specially in statutory audits which have direct impact on whole of the economy. This does not degarde the level of knowledge and expertise of ACCAs as it is a reality that merely doing ACCA cannot make any body an expert of what is being happening in Pakistan's economy, regulations and environment. There is extreme of diversification even if ACCAs are allowed to opt for Pakistani laws and subjects. Accountancy profession at any country is a mafia. This is again not to disgrace anything. There is so much which one cannot be understood unless he is one of the insiders.
In Pakistan CAs (members of ICAP) are allowed to engage theirselves in public practice. This is by no means a threat for ACCAs or disgrace of ACCAs. This is law of Pakistan and, logically speaking, should not be challenged merely if ACCAs feel they are also qualified in accountancy profession. There are so many reasons for Pakistan for doing so. These cannot be discussed in one session. Of course every regulation has its basis before getting into promulgation. This is not to be messed up. ACCAs are given full respect for their studies and knowledge and international affiliation, in Pakistan. They are not totally banned from practising in Pakistan. They can open their consulatncy services, accountancy services, system implementation services, ERP and IT consultancies, internal audit specilized services and much more which is included in the profession. The only thing which will remain banned will be the Statutory Audits. This may also at some point of time in future be allowed to them with some restrictions and limitations as it has also been allowed to ACMAs with similar limitations. Yes, if some one will like their services, he will come to them leaving CA firms behind and vice versa. I already said that the example of homeo and allopathic does not 100% apply on ACCAs vers. CAs when compared.
There is something to understand and infact ACCAs are disallowed to be in public practice statutory audit) directly. But indirectly they are not banned. They can get into public practice by qualifying the CA final exams after getting exemption from its Intermediate modules. The Institute of Chartered Accountants of Pakistan (ICAP) provides exemption to ACCAs from four modules of its intermediate examinations. ACCAs can qualify finals and can also get into practice as ICAP members. Such exemption is a big privilage and cannot be ignored.
You know this is not only ACCA who is disallowed to be in public practice in Pakistan. CAs from England and Wales and CPAs from USA can even not engage theirselves in public practice unless they complete necessary qualification and other requirements to become a CA from ICAP. Of course requirements to be fullfilled are variant for each foreign qualification.
MBBS from Pakistan can get into FCPS exams after completing MBBS and house job. But even then MBBS from Pakistan has to fullfil variant level of requirements to do FRCS in UK or some specilization (e.g., Diplomate of American Board of Surgery) from USA. These may include passing through TOEFL, PLAB or getting some master degree from Pakistan in medicine etc. I am not sure about what are current requirements but when my brother went for FRCS to UK in 1992-93, he had done some thing like that. Therefore it is not a matter of criticism and tension. If there is some requirement to do some thing, this should be fullfilled irrespective of how much any country is advanced or poor. Every country's law is respectable and should not be disgraced.
Hope the things would be little bit clarified to you. This had been a lengthy response from me. How much you normally charge for allocating such amount of time to any patient? Just kidding.
{This post is only in response to the query posted by Mr. Mzharje and is not aimed at to disregard any body's capabilities.}
Best regards,
Kamran.
In spite of the ground realities to the contrary, I at the outset dont agree with your statement that Pakistan is a thrid class country. One can call it under-developed or un-developed but using the words "third class" is, in my eyes, in-appropriate. This would be a very lengthy discussion so I dont get into it.
Your question appears to be logical one at its outlook but if one will get into the roots of the things, he/she can understand the problems associated with allowing the ACCAs the public practice in Pakistan.
The major issue for you is that you dont belong to the profession of accountancy. Medical profession has nothing to do with varying level of rules, regulations, local laws, diversified accounting practices, variant regulations of central banks of different countries, penal codes, economical structures, monetary and fiscal policies and other such practices. It is substantially same all over the world except for the new developments and technoligical advancements in advanced countries for which the developing countries normally fall short of.
Medical profession in its entirety is same as far as school of thought is concerned. You are a doctor and can undertsnad it far better than me. However, if you compare allopathic with homeopathic, you will understand why homeo specialists are not comparable to you people. It does not mean at all that homeo would have no relevance in the field of medicine. Of course they have, but they cannot be appointed MS of a teaching hospital you know. This may help out you to understand the issue.
The above comparison of homeo and allopathic school of thoughts however does not materially resembles the nature of difference in CAs and ACCAs in Pakistan or any other country. Basically the CA profession is always chartered by a specific country's government under specific law to produce the professionals who can understand the structure of its own legality and statutes. This is the prerogative of every country to charter what it deems fit for its ownself. ACCA is not a chartered association at least in Pakistan. This has never been endorsed by any law of Pakistan. ACCA in Pakistan has recently been established as a company having no profit motive under section 42 of the companies ordinance, 1984. This is still a company in Pakistan and not a chartered Institute. Any association having any world wide setup cannot by force ask any country to do what such association deems fit. Rather, it is to be decided by the country itself. There are so many confidentialities which cannot be shared with foreign associations. (This is a general sentence and should not be specifically interpretted.) Similar things happen when an economy levies tarif protection to its own products. This has to be done to encourage own economy. This is not comparable with medical profession at all.
CA is not only meant for producing the accounts of some entity. Rather, it is a very wide ranging profession in which one gets the grasp on so many legal facets of his own economy. Laws specifically relating to corporate issues and taxation matters are normally very much complex and cannot be completely understood by some one who has not passed through the whole phase of training, education and on hand practices of such issues. As a homeo doctor cannot be trusted for open heart surgery of a heart patient (as it will certainly lead to the death of patient), the accountant who do not have an on-hand training in specific financial, economical and social environment, basic and detailed and in depth knowledge of all the pros and cons specific to the situation, cannot be trusted for providing the solutions of some corporate matters, specially in statutory audits which have direct impact on whole of the economy. This does not degarde the level of knowledge and expertise of ACCAs as it is a reality that merely doing ACCA cannot make any body an expert of what is being happening in Pakistan's economy, regulations and environment. There is extreme of diversification even if ACCAs are allowed to opt for Pakistani laws and subjects. Accountancy profession at any country is a mafia. This is again not to disgrace anything. There is so much which one cannot be understood unless he is one of the insiders.
In Pakistan CAs (members of ICAP) are allowed to engage theirselves in public practice. This is by no means a threat for ACCAs or disgrace of ACCAs. This is law of Pakistan and, logically speaking, should not be challenged merely if ACCAs feel they are also qualified in accountancy profession. There are so many reasons for Pakistan for doing so. These cannot be discussed in one session. Of course every regulation has its basis before getting into promulgation. This is not to be messed up. ACCAs are given full respect for their studies and knowledge and international affiliation, in Pakistan. They are not totally banned from practising in Pakistan. They can open their consulatncy services, accountancy services, system implementation services, ERP and IT consultancies, internal audit specilized services and much more which is included in the profession. The only thing which will remain banned will be the Statutory Audits. This may also at some point of time in future be allowed to them with some restrictions and limitations as it has also been allowed to ACMAs with similar limitations. Yes, if some one will like their services, he will come to them leaving CA firms behind and vice versa. I already said that the example of homeo and allopathic does not 100% apply on ACCAs vers. CAs when compared.
There is something to understand and infact ACCAs are disallowed to be in public practice statutory audit) directly. But indirectly they are not banned. They can get into public practice by qualifying the CA final exams after getting exemption from its Intermediate modules. The Institute of Chartered Accountants of Pakistan (ICAP) provides exemption to ACCAs from four modules of its intermediate examinations. ACCAs can qualify finals and can also get into practice as ICAP members. Such exemption is a big privilage and cannot be ignored.
You know this is not only ACCA who is disallowed to be in public practice in Pakistan. CAs from England and Wales and CPAs from USA can even not engage theirselves in public practice unless they complete necessary qualification and other requirements to become a CA from ICAP. Of course requirements to be fullfilled are variant for each foreign qualification.
MBBS from Pakistan can get into FCPS exams after completing MBBS and house job. But even then MBBS from Pakistan has to fullfil variant level of requirements to do FRCS in UK or some specilization (e.g., Diplomate of American Board of Surgery) from USA. These may include passing through TOEFL, PLAB or getting some master degree from Pakistan in medicine etc. I am not sure about what are current requirements but when my brother went for FRCS to UK in 1992-93, he had done some thing like that. Therefore it is not a matter of criticism and tension. If there is some requirement to do some thing, this should be fullfilled irrespective of how much any country is advanced or poor. Every country's law is respectable and should not be disgraced.
Hope the things would be little bit clarified to you. This had been a lengthy response from me. How much you normally charge for allocating such amount of time to any patient? Just kidding.
{This post is only in response to the query posted by Mr. Mzharje and is not aimed at to disregard any body's capabilities.}
Best regards,
Kamran.
