09-20-2007, 03:07 AM
By getting through your post one thing comes to my mind is that difference of opinions by virtue of different positions will remain. You sound like very effectively conveying the managementâs point of view.
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Tahoma, Arial" id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by kamranACA</i>
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Students should be focussed on their goals instead of having worries about what can happen. You know if we just concentrate on what can happen, then we will do nothing in our life. Hope is vital for moving ahead. Beleive you me in no case any firm kicks its innocent student. Firms are selling man hours, they are suppliers of professionals' time and their cost mainly represent the time of students and professionals they devote to an assignment. Accordingly they earn against the sale of time. Time which represents the man hours.
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Definitely the things I mentioned does not mean to distract one of his goals or living with the fear of what can happen. I just tried to highlight some injustice that can take place or does take place is CA firms.
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Tahoma, Arial" id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by kamranACA</i>
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Here you must note a point. What would be the ratio of the students taking NOCs and changing firms against the ratio of principals kicking out their students.
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This was new for me to know that a student takes the NOC and when the management does the same it means kicking out the students. Shun't same words be used for both occasions
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Tahoma, Arial" id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by kamranACA</i>
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I have also been hearing of Objection Certificate when I was a student. However, I never had seen any such case in last 13 years not any such case has ever been reported in any newspaper, pakistan accountant and ICAP Newsletter. Yes there had been one or two cases of contract termination by principals which were intervened by ICAP and justice was done. Though not apparently seen in CA Ordinance or Bye Laws, still if there has been any option to modify the NOC certificate's format given in BYE LAWS, even then no such case has so far been witnessed by me. If this is a reality then why a normal innocent student should always have worries of such nature. It is not understandable
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I don't know how one can justify the case of Objection Certificate. And, I think you must have your own definition of innocence that is who is considered innocent by the management. And he or she might be the one who never dares to speak anything in front of the management.
Very right you are as indulging in a debate with someone older in age is a taboo in our society and can be easily considered badtamizi.
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Tahoma, Arial" id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by kamranACA</i>
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my soul pertains to old school of thought and I always remember the relationship defined by PROPHET P.B.U.H between USTAAD and SHAAGIRD and I also cannot forget the reflections from Hazrat Ali Karamallah Wajho. Further, I feel that learning is the sole responsibility of a student. Teacher / senior / principal (or by whatever name we call it) has the responsibility of teaching and guiding either directly or indirectly or through other sources. Learning cannot adopt any other meaning with the passage of time. Similarly, guidance can also not take any other shape, whatever words we use for it. It has nothing to do with jugglery of words. It is a live reality.
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I totally disagree in this regard. This is my personal view no matter right or wrong. As per my view the relation of USTAAD and SHAGIRD does not exist in CA firms.
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Tahoma, Arial" id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by kamranACA</i>
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This is a time of learning, accepting and following for you. You cannot take a lead at this moment. This is what a student should do.
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Its never the matter of taking the lead. What is right or wrong does not change when you are among the management or a student. And I think one should not follow and accept what is not right and just.
Kamran Sb I always fear while saying such things because people may easily mind and take things personal but I am sure you are not among those so I sometimes take the opportunity of being blunt while putting forward my point.
Regards
Shoaib
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Tahoma, Arial" id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by kamranACA</i>
<br />
Students should be focussed on their goals instead of having worries about what can happen. You know if we just concentrate on what can happen, then we will do nothing in our life. Hope is vital for moving ahead. Beleive you me in no case any firm kicks its innocent student. Firms are selling man hours, they are suppliers of professionals' time and their cost mainly represent the time of students and professionals they devote to an assignment. Accordingly they earn against the sale of time. Time which represents the man hours.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Definitely the things I mentioned does not mean to distract one of his goals or living with the fear of what can happen. I just tried to highlight some injustice that can take place or does take place is CA firms.
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Tahoma, Arial" id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by kamranACA</i>
<br />
Here you must note a point. What would be the ratio of the students taking NOCs and changing firms against the ratio of principals kicking out their students.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
This was new for me to know that a student takes the NOC and when the management does the same it means kicking out the students. Shun't same words be used for both occasions
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Tahoma, Arial" id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by kamranACA</i>
<br />
I have also been hearing of Objection Certificate when I was a student. However, I never had seen any such case in last 13 years not any such case has ever been reported in any newspaper, pakistan accountant and ICAP Newsletter. Yes there had been one or two cases of contract termination by principals which were intervened by ICAP and justice was done. Though not apparently seen in CA Ordinance or Bye Laws, still if there has been any option to modify the NOC certificate's format given in BYE LAWS, even then no such case has so far been witnessed by me. If this is a reality then why a normal innocent student should always have worries of such nature. It is not understandable
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I don't know how one can justify the case of Objection Certificate. And, I think you must have your own definition of innocence that is who is considered innocent by the management. And he or she might be the one who never dares to speak anything in front of the management.
Very right you are as indulging in a debate with someone older in age is a taboo in our society and can be easily considered badtamizi.
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Tahoma, Arial" id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by kamranACA</i>
<br />
my soul pertains to old school of thought and I always remember the relationship defined by PROPHET P.B.U.H between USTAAD and SHAAGIRD and I also cannot forget the reflections from Hazrat Ali Karamallah Wajho. Further, I feel that learning is the sole responsibility of a student. Teacher / senior / principal (or by whatever name we call it) has the responsibility of teaching and guiding either directly or indirectly or through other sources. Learning cannot adopt any other meaning with the passage of time. Similarly, guidance can also not take any other shape, whatever words we use for it. It has nothing to do with jugglery of words. It is a live reality.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I totally disagree in this regard. This is my personal view no matter right or wrong. As per my view the relation of USTAAD and SHAGIRD does not exist in CA firms.
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Tahoma, Arial" id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by kamranACA</i>
<br />
This is a time of learning, accepting and following for you. You cannot take a lead at this moment. This is what a student should do.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Its never the matter of taking the lead. What is right or wrong does not change when you are among the management or a student. And I think one should not follow and accept what is not right and just.
Kamran Sb I always fear while saying such things because people may easily mind and take things personal but I am sure you are not among those so I sometimes take the opportunity of being blunt while putting forward my point.
Regards
Shoaib
