09-20-2007, 04:37 PM
Dear Shoaib,
I always liked your style of arguing that's why I once advised you to remain in profession after completing the articles. Further, argument and view point does not make the things to be taken personally. It's a professional debate you know. Therefore, I dont feel any one's viewpoint personally.
As far as your above post is concerned, it has been clarified that on one facet we need not to discuss any more and that is the due respect for principals/seniors by the students in the CA firms. Still, I would just like to give my viewpoint for those who read this message.
I told you that regarding this area, I pertain to old school of thought. I never said that seniors should not respect the students. Rather, my view point is that the respect of seniors is much more due on students than the expected reciprocal respect they await from the seniors. And yes, they should be "the one who never dares to speak anything in front of the management" in so far this "anything" surrounds unjustified immature ideas of those brains who are at the very first step of practical life and in so many cases who cannot even think and decide about their own good and bad.
Setting targets, getting inspiration, idealising some positive and successfull personalities and following what is asked for are normal features of a student's life. No one is typically that much Jesus in his capabilities in the childhood / boyhood that he denies this principle. Youngers have ever been dependent on elders and this the nature's rule. This is the universal truth which is not going to be changed merely if I argue in its favor or you argue against it.
I just advise the general readers who are students at the moment that they can achieve what they aim, largely, if they develope acceptability for what they are asked for, accept the challenges during training period becoz this will never come back, work that much hard both on practice as well as on study as much they can, never stick to normal routine clients if they are given a choice and always try to do something new, different and generally considered hard, and dont develope a hidden or expressed thought inside that they have more knowledge and expertise than their principals or managers irrespective if they might have on some areas.
Dear Shoaib,
When a student takes NOC, its his own will that is consented by the principal. This happens in extremely substantial majority of the cases where NOC is given. No student, how much he is efficient and tees maar khan, is that much important for a firm that can caus ethe principal to deny him to give the NOC. {If in some cases things had ever happened to the contrary, I dont consider the act of principal justified.} Since it is very casual and as per the will of a student thats why I call it taking NOC.
However, when I used the words Kicking out some one, these were to point out the cases, if any, where NOCs are given against the will of the student. This should not happen except in cases of extreme misconduct (to which you may call TABOO or BADTAMEEZI). If it happens without a reason, I dont claim it a justified act.
And yes, none of the above view point of mine has been developed or changed after completion of my articles. I since the very outset had have same idealogy regarding the attitude of a student and a firm.
Notwithstanding the above, you have not so far produced any example of termination of contract by the principal (where ICAP has not intervened or where it was done without student's will) or any case of Objection Crtificate, to enhance my knowledge. I am still waiting for it.
I once again say to conclude this post that
MAUJ HAI DARYA MAIN AUR BAIROON-E-DARYA KUCH NAHI
Hoping to have its impact on some of the readers, only in their own future's interest.
Otherwise, Kamran is going to lose nothing, you know.
Bets regards,
Kamran.
I always liked your style of arguing that's why I once advised you to remain in profession after completing the articles. Further, argument and view point does not make the things to be taken personally. It's a professional debate you know. Therefore, I dont feel any one's viewpoint personally.
As far as your above post is concerned, it has been clarified that on one facet we need not to discuss any more and that is the due respect for principals/seniors by the students in the CA firms. Still, I would just like to give my viewpoint for those who read this message.
I told you that regarding this area, I pertain to old school of thought. I never said that seniors should not respect the students. Rather, my view point is that the respect of seniors is much more due on students than the expected reciprocal respect they await from the seniors. And yes, they should be "the one who never dares to speak anything in front of the management" in so far this "anything" surrounds unjustified immature ideas of those brains who are at the very first step of practical life and in so many cases who cannot even think and decide about their own good and bad.
Setting targets, getting inspiration, idealising some positive and successfull personalities and following what is asked for are normal features of a student's life. No one is typically that much Jesus in his capabilities in the childhood / boyhood that he denies this principle. Youngers have ever been dependent on elders and this the nature's rule. This is the universal truth which is not going to be changed merely if I argue in its favor or you argue against it.
I just advise the general readers who are students at the moment that they can achieve what they aim, largely, if they develope acceptability for what they are asked for, accept the challenges during training period becoz this will never come back, work that much hard both on practice as well as on study as much they can, never stick to normal routine clients if they are given a choice and always try to do something new, different and generally considered hard, and dont develope a hidden or expressed thought inside that they have more knowledge and expertise than their principals or managers irrespective if they might have on some areas.
Dear Shoaib,
When a student takes NOC, its his own will that is consented by the principal. This happens in extremely substantial majority of the cases where NOC is given. No student, how much he is efficient and tees maar khan, is that much important for a firm that can caus ethe principal to deny him to give the NOC. {If in some cases things had ever happened to the contrary, I dont consider the act of principal justified.} Since it is very casual and as per the will of a student thats why I call it taking NOC.
However, when I used the words Kicking out some one, these were to point out the cases, if any, where NOCs are given against the will of the student. This should not happen except in cases of extreme misconduct (to which you may call TABOO or BADTAMEEZI). If it happens without a reason, I dont claim it a justified act.
And yes, none of the above view point of mine has been developed or changed after completion of my articles. I since the very outset had have same idealogy regarding the attitude of a student and a firm.
Notwithstanding the above, you have not so far produced any example of termination of contract by the principal (where ICAP has not intervened or where it was done without student's will) or any case of Objection Crtificate, to enhance my knowledge. I am still waiting for it.
I once again say to conclude this post that
MAUJ HAI DARYA MAIN AUR BAIROON-E-DARYA KUCH NAHI
Hoping to have its impact on some of the readers, only in their own future's interest.
Otherwise, Kamran is going to lose nothing, you know.
Bets regards,
Kamran.
