09-22-2007, 01:58 AM
Dear Kamran,
You started with a little praise of my stlyle of argument, so very effectively you draw my frame of mind in your favor at the outset of the post by putting me in the seventh heaven. (I never am trying to that this was a diplomatic effort to persuade). However, after that you put forward your point in the best possible way. Having a point of view, may be right or wrong, is something else, but the art of very effectively translating your thoughts into words that leaves the reader with a very little margin to disagree is a quality of a few. Another thing which I will like to clarify is this is not for the sake of a mere argument, and you need not to be explained the difference between an argument for the sake of argument and healthy discussion.
Coming to the point, even if I do have some differences, I would say this is the best advice for students starting or doing articleship, or in other walk of life are in a similar position.
I have to agree that I may not have similar abilities (as yours) of giving words to my thoughts in such a pursuasive manner. Furthermore, I am not at par with you while discussing such things due to the difference in our experience, qualification and maturity. However, at the same time this difference should not stop me from expressing my view point.
I started with saying that you don't leave others with a big margin to disagree, and in respect of this very thread it seems that you are advising to BE GOOD, and I am arguing for the contrary. Also, if such discussion are meant for new comers in the field my arguments completely loose weight in front of yours. One things has been clarified that we belong to two different extremes in this case and complete reconcilitation of views may never be possible. However, there may be something which the other can be made to accept by means of logical argument.
Enough of TAMHEED and circumlocation is there, and I might sound digressing from the main idea. So, I jump to the main idea
Your opinion SUBMIT TO NORMS
I say CHALLENGE THE NORMS. (Of course, not merely challenging due to the sake of challenging, there got to be some reasons.)
Your opinion BE HUMBLE
I say BE BOLD; I never mean that one should unabashedly keep on repeating one's immature and illogical reasoning. (I may sound doing the same here)
Your opinion SENIORS SHOULD BE TREATED WITH UTMOST RESPECT.
My opinion THEY ARE JUST COLLEGUES. I mean it should not always be the case that it got to be always the junior who pick up the file and give it to senior no matter that picking up the file himself required half the effort by the senior. Stewpid prestige that comes into play should never be the case.
You definiton of RESPECT seems conventional
I count on defining respect as something that is totally independent of one's age and position. Kids are to be respected as are the people of old age. It is something that lies in the heart and not merely displayed by one's behaviour. I can swear that I have more respect for a lot of people than others, however, many other very effectively potrays themselves as much more respecting.
You say that students are immature, illogical so they should follow the things as they are.
Established rules are definitely to be followed as they are evolved after much of experience and a new comer having no experience can never be allowed to challenge them. However, students having lived more than one third of thier lives, having got the pre-requiste knowledge and after gaining some experience can bring thier creativity into play. There are much cases when one working at a lower position can handle the task better than his senior. Presence of mentally incompetent person at managerial level is quite a common phenomena in our society.
It is not the case that I totally disagree with your opinion, there is much may be most of what you said that I have to agree. Developing acceptibility for the assigned tasks, although not easily done as said, may be the key to success and the best of advices for a student. A studnet may be easily disillusioned by the fact that he is better than his seniors. And a slightest over assessment of oneself by one may make him appear totally absurd in front of others.
Coming to the second part of your post, Kamran, it would have been much easier for me if we can explain our viewpoint with some real life examples. To avoid my post getting extra lengthy and boring I will come to some of the points afterwards.
Regards
Shoaib
You started with a little praise of my stlyle of argument, so very effectively you draw my frame of mind in your favor at the outset of the post by putting me in the seventh heaven. (I never am trying to that this was a diplomatic effort to persuade). However, after that you put forward your point in the best possible way. Having a point of view, may be right or wrong, is something else, but the art of very effectively translating your thoughts into words that leaves the reader with a very little margin to disagree is a quality of a few. Another thing which I will like to clarify is this is not for the sake of a mere argument, and you need not to be explained the difference between an argument for the sake of argument and healthy discussion.
Coming to the point, even if I do have some differences, I would say this is the best advice for students starting or doing articleship, or in other walk of life are in a similar position.
I have to agree that I may not have similar abilities (as yours) of giving words to my thoughts in such a pursuasive manner. Furthermore, I am not at par with you while discussing such things due to the difference in our experience, qualification and maturity. However, at the same time this difference should not stop me from expressing my view point.
I started with saying that you don't leave others with a big margin to disagree, and in respect of this very thread it seems that you are advising to BE GOOD, and I am arguing for the contrary. Also, if such discussion are meant for new comers in the field my arguments completely loose weight in front of yours. One things has been clarified that we belong to two different extremes in this case and complete reconcilitation of views may never be possible. However, there may be something which the other can be made to accept by means of logical argument.
Enough of TAMHEED and circumlocation is there, and I might sound digressing from the main idea. So, I jump to the main idea
Your opinion SUBMIT TO NORMS
I say CHALLENGE THE NORMS. (Of course, not merely challenging due to the sake of challenging, there got to be some reasons.)
Your opinion BE HUMBLE
I say BE BOLD; I never mean that one should unabashedly keep on repeating one's immature and illogical reasoning. (I may sound doing the same here)
Your opinion SENIORS SHOULD BE TREATED WITH UTMOST RESPECT.
My opinion THEY ARE JUST COLLEGUES. I mean it should not always be the case that it got to be always the junior who pick up the file and give it to senior no matter that picking up the file himself required half the effort by the senior. Stewpid prestige that comes into play should never be the case.
You definiton of RESPECT seems conventional
I count on defining respect as something that is totally independent of one's age and position. Kids are to be respected as are the people of old age. It is something that lies in the heart and not merely displayed by one's behaviour. I can swear that I have more respect for a lot of people than others, however, many other very effectively potrays themselves as much more respecting.
You say that students are immature, illogical so they should follow the things as they are.
Established rules are definitely to be followed as they are evolved after much of experience and a new comer having no experience can never be allowed to challenge them. However, students having lived more than one third of thier lives, having got the pre-requiste knowledge and after gaining some experience can bring thier creativity into play. There are much cases when one working at a lower position can handle the task better than his senior. Presence of mentally incompetent person at managerial level is quite a common phenomena in our society.
It is not the case that I totally disagree with your opinion, there is much may be most of what you said that I have to agree. Developing acceptibility for the assigned tasks, although not easily done as said, may be the key to success and the best of advices for a student. A studnet may be easily disillusioned by the fact that he is better than his seniors. And a slightest over assessment of oneself by one may make him appear totally absurd in front of others.
Coming to the second part of your post, Kamran, it would have been much easier for me if we can explain our viewpoint with some real life examples. To avoid my post getting extra lengthy and boring I will come to some of the points afterwards.
Regards
Shoaib
