11-22-2007, 04:12 PM
Dear Astute,
I again wonder why you deduced meaning of that particular line this way. I said
"I wonder after reading your mail that why only I have been criticised for being emotional on the issue of cricket )."
So this is a wonder which arouse after reading Shoaib's first and even second post. He has behaved with grave concerns and logics to prove that matches are typically not pre-planned (although he almost failed to do it and his own statements are contradicting each other severely, i think if he look back on his second post he can find such contradiction at his own) and fixed in world over perspective and that Pakistani team is a live example of character and professional integrity.
So my words were pointing out his own emotional attitude which he is still carrying on but at the same time criticising the others for doing it at the other end. In fact he got great similarity with you in behaving emotionally for the country and game. It's not really bad.
I think you have to re-consider my "ambiguous" statement once again. Do you note that the thing which we cant understand, we dont declare it our own problem, rather we declare it ambiguous. Thats cool!!!
So dear Shoaib,
Why you are calling me to such purposeless debate? You know I am not from the ones who call the others for my help at the end or who try to find out reasons to quit. you know it. Further, whenever some one is speaking for or against a topic it is only a logic which works. Now if such logic is not a logic in ur viewpoint or has less wightage or is less convincing, you cant say it otherwise. It wud again remain a logic, though not appealing some one. This is what I already told you at some other thread. The words to contrary are normally expression of avenge and nothing else. Any one of us could be subject to it.
I just dont feel this topic worth debating to such extent becoz I firmly believe that majority of matches in different games are either pre-planned or fixed. Infact you also accepted it in ur post. If some one had been corrupt at one stage (which you also agree) how can you firmly say that he would not be a corrupt one at other stage. Its strange from you if you predict this way. By the way do you remember what definition for a FAITHFUL PERSON (MOMAN) has been given in Hadees? Now plz dont say that faith has nothing to do in such matters.
My brother, nothing "important" in international arena is un-fixed or un-planned not only in cricket but in every sphere of life. Yes trade offs are certainly there in so many cases and harder and powerful is typically on higher side in majority of the circumstances. I said majority, not completely. I wonder you only remember 7 wins over india but you forget similar long list of defeats (at Pakistan) substantially in the same period against india. If you will compare wins of Pak in india at india against loss of Pak against india at Pakistan, you may reasonablly find out some glimpse of pre-planning. Further, the mix of series had been planned in the way that masses should not feel affected. A series at Pak lost by Pak then a series at India lost by India and so on...... If you dont find such glimpse, again it is not a very big issue for me. Becoz at the moment other issues are much bigger than cricket which we can discuss.
Burning of homes is not an issue for those who at their own would not mind to burn such a house after having fixed or pre-planned wins. Do you think our players had have such a life which such losses and wins etc have given them. They earn both ways, on winning as well as on losing becoz as far as fixing is concerned it is not only confined to wins only. This is despite the huge salaries which they are taking which are normally more than any highly qualified professional. Under hand payments are never surfaced. You can judge any players history with his current situation. Just the danger of burning of a home is normally not a big issue if compare it to benefits obtained from the double game. Moreover, in pre-planned wins or defeats, governments do not let any body do things like this. You know in history no player of india or Pak has been killed by those who fired out the homes etc.
FURTHER, DO YOU REALLY BELIEVE THAT PEOPLE AVOID DOING CORRUPTION FOR THE FEAR OF ANY WORLDLY OR SPIRTUAL THING??? If you feel so, then express it and I will tell you the incidents where people do various things knowing that its penalty is death. You must be aware of beheading of smugglers at Saudi Arabia. Does it work to stop such activities?? There are number of such other examples. Lust is lust and fear cannot stop it my brother. Just concentrate on it. You will understand.
At the end I may invite your intention towards your demand for proofs. If I dont have any proof or evidence for what I am trying to prove, do you have such similar evidence or proof in support of what you are trying to prove????????? Kia Bolti Tu??? If only logics have to work, then plz see initial paragraphs where I told you that logics are always logics and any side can not call it otherwise.
Once again I would like to re-call that this topic is not worth debating any more. So should we not discuss some other good topic??
Regards,
Kamran.
I again wonder why you deduced meaning of that particular line this way. I said
"I wonder after reading your mail that why only I have been criticised for being emotional on the issue of cricket )."
So this is a wonder which arouse after reading Shoaib's first and even second post. He has behaved with grave concerns and logics to prove that matches are typically not pre-planned (although he almost failed to do it and his own statements are contradicting each other severely, i think if he look back on his second post he can find such contradiction at his own) and fixed in world over perspective and that Pakistani team is a live example of character and professional integrity.
So my words were pointing out his own emotional attitude which he is still carrying on but at the same time criticising the others for doing it at the other end. In fact he got great similarity with you in behaving emotionally for the country and game. It's not really bad.
I think you have to re-consider my "ambiguous" statement once again. Do you note that the thing which we cant understand, we dont declare it our own problem, rather we declare it ambiguous. Thats cool!!!
So dear Shoaib,
Why you are calling me to such purposeless debate? You know I am not from the ones who call the others for my help at the end or who try to find out reasons to quit. you know it. Further, whenever some one is speaking for or against a topic it is only a logic which works. Now if such logic is not a logic in ur viewpoint or has less wightage or is less convincing, you cant say it otherwise. It wud again remain a logic, though not appealing some one. This is what I already told you at some other thread. The words to contrary are normally expression of avenge and nothing else. Any one of us could be subject to it.
I just dont feel this topic worth debating to such extent becoz I firmly believe that majority of matches in different games are either pre-planned or fixed. Infact you also accepted it in ur post. If some one had been corrupt at one stage (which you also agree) how can you firmly say that he would not be a corrupt one at other stage. Its strange from you if you predict this way. By the way do you remember what definition for a FAITHFUL PERSON (MOMAN) has been given in Hadees? Now plz dont say that faith has nothing to do in such matters.
My brother, nothing "important" in international arena is un-fixed or un-planned not only in cricket but in every sphere of life. Yes trade offs are certainly there in so many cases and harder and powerful is typically on higher side in majority of the circumstances. I said majority, not completely. I wonder you only remember 7 wins over india but you forget similar long list of defeats (at Pakistan) substantially in the same period against india. If you will compare wins of Pak in india at india against loss of Pak against india at Pakistan, you may reasonablly find out some glimpse of pre-planning. Further, the mix of series had been planned in the way that masses should not feel affected. A series at Pak lost by Pak then a series at India lost by India and so on...... If you dont find such glimpse, again it is not a very big issue for me. Becoz at the moment other issues are much bigger than cricket which we can discuss.
Burning of homes is not an issue for those who at their own would not mind to burn such a house after having fixed or pre-planned wins. Do you think our players had have such a life which such losses and wins etc have given them. They earn both ways, on winning as well as on losing becoz as far as fixing is concerned it is not only confined to wins only. This is despite the huge salaries which they are taking which are normally more than any highly qualified professional. Under hand payments are never surfaced. You can judge any players history with his current situation. Just the danger of burning of a home is normally not a big issue if compare it to benefits obtained from the double game. Moreover, in pre-planned wins or defeats, governments do not let any body do things like this. You know in history no player of india or Pak has been killed by those who fired out the homes etc.
FURTHER, DO YOU REALLY BELIEVE THAT PEOPLE AVOID DOING CORRUPTION FOR THE FEAR OF ANY WORLDLY OR SPIRTUAL THING??? If you feel so, then express it and I will tell you the incidents where people do various things knowing that its penalty is death. You must be aware of beheading of smugglers at Saudi Arabia. Does it work to stop such activities?? There are number of such other examples. Lust is lust and fear cannot stop it my brother. Just concentrate on it. You will understand.
At the end I may invite your intention towards your demand for proofs. If I dont have any proof or evidence for what I am trying to prove, do you have such similar evidence or proof in support of what you are trying to prove????????? Kia Bolti Tu??? If only logics have to work, then plz see initial paragraphs where I told you that logics are always logics and any side can not call it otherwise.
Once again I would like to re-call that this topic is not worth debating any more. So should we not discuss some other good topic??
Regards,
Kamran.
