11-27-2007, 05:53 PM
Dear Shoaib,
There is no different or newly evolved conclusion. My remarks in the very first post of this thread were baiscally my own views and perceptions and were also bearing the diclaimer of lacking the sort of proof which you eventually required. There is something in shape of consistent performance and behaviour among Pakistani players and PCB which I feel very concrete for my views and there may be so many "facts and figures" and "calculations" (as I already defined) which support your views.
Now your problem is that you dont take remarks and views as some one's personal perception and ideas. You need to reach the aggregately consented conclusion based upon various members' remarks (which of course vary and can vary to a large extent) but you dont understand that in this world it is one of the most hard tasks to be achieved. We should, as member of this forum, in fact give our opinion to share our ideas and to this effect we can prolong the discussion not just for ourselves but also for others who may read such threads. This process includes giving comments for and against the topic. If some conclusion is reached in this process, it is good. But we should not very much focuss our point of view to reach our own conclusion. However, I will again say that aggregately consented conclusions are very rarely achieved.
Your post interalia included your following remarks
QUOTE
None of us is of the view that match fixing is not the case in international cricket. However, you are of the view that cricket and WWE both are pre-planned on similar lines. I mentioned that at least one difference is there that in cricket's case it is not disclosed to viewers, and I believe if this is the case then many of argument loose weightage. I am unable to find your remarks about it in the whole thread. I believe that fixing is there in cricket, it is also there in many other sports i.e. soccer. Further to this, my theory says that no sport which is totally preplanned can continue as a sport, if this is the situation it has to become a pre-planned stage presentation like WWE. I still wonder how after giving such illustrations one still is unable to understand the difference in WWE and cricket.
UNQUOTE
I could not understand what do you mean by saying "that in cricket's case it is not disclosed to viewers". Do you mean it is explicitly disclosed or announced to viewers in advance at WWE that which player will win the game? Do you think so? I can percieve that you dont mean it as crudely as I said. However, if you say that it could be guessed from the statements, forecasts, behaviours or subsequent disclosures made by wrestlers or other reporting etc then which one of these things is not evidenced in cricket???????? After every crucial/important match/tournament newspapers write down the doubted stories. Even at the start of the big tournaments like WC one can read in newspapers the activities of bookies at the veneues. Do you read newspapers? I think you must. If we talk about statements of players then again in cricket so many players have agreed such facts. It is again not a hidden thing in contrast to WWE. I could really not understand what point of differnce you want me to understand. Can you help please?
As far as the matter of PCB is concerned, I at the very outset said I cannot prove my statement with evidences. It's solely my view which I expressed and this may not totally be agreed by any one else. This was just to share what I feel about the situation and the point which makes me to feel it is the way we are playing and arranging games. I said, you have seen it, you are seeing it and you will be seeing it. Let's concentrate Pakistan India current series. Let's see what happens.
You talk about figures of matches played last year. Yes we played gud matches last year I agree but if you see last five years and compare this whole period with others you might get to know what I want to say. Our players' records show that they have played far lesser than other players of the world even where the careers of our players lasted for more than 15+ years. And while comparing last five years, if you find that currently the figure of matches has gone up than the previous years then again this, in my view, substantiate what I said about how PCB has now been arranging series/matches. It may not appear logical to you.
I think we should leave this topic open for readers. Conclusion is not necessary to reach in such sort of topics. Of course this is not a professional or other vital discussion.
Best regards,
KAMRAN.
There is no different or newly evolved conclusion. My remarks in the very first post of this thread were baiscally my own views and perceptions and were also bearing the diclaimer of lacking the sort of proof which you eventually required. There is something in shape of consistent performance and behaviour among Pakistani players and PCB which I feel very concrete for my views and there may be so many "facts and figures" and "calculations" (as I already defined) which support your views.
Now your problem is that you dont take remarks and views as some one's personal perception and ideas. You need to reach the aggregately consented conclusion based upon various members' remarks (which of course vary and can vary to a large extent) but you dont understand that in this world it is one of the most hard tasks to be achieved. We should, as member of this forum, in fact give our opinion to share our ideas and to this effect we can prolong the discussion not just for ourselves but also for others who may read such threads. This process includes giving comments for and against the topic. If some conclusion is reached in this process, it is good. But we should not very much focuss our point of view to reach our own conclusion. However, I will again say that aggregately consented conclusions are very rarely achieved.
Your post interalia included your following remarks
QUOTE
None of us is of the view that match fixing is not the case in international cricket. However, you are of the view that cricket and WWE both are pre-planned on similar lines. I mentioned that at least one difference is there that in cricket's case it is not disclosed to viewers, and I believe if this is the case then many of argument loose weightage. I am unable to find your remarks about it in the whole thread. I believe that fixing is there in cricket, it is also there in many other sports i.e. soccer. Further to this, my theory says that no sport which is totally preplanned can continue as a sport, if this is the situation it has to become a pre-planned stage presentation like WWE. I still wonder how after giving such illustrations one still is unable to understand the difference in WWE and cricket.
UNQUOTE
I could not understand what do you mean by saying "that in cricket's case it is not disclosed to viewers". Do you mean it is explicitly disclosed or announced to viewers in advance at WWE that which player will win the game? Do you think so? I can percieve that you dont mean it as crudely as I said. However, if you say that it could be guessed from the statements, forecasts, behaviours or subsequent disclosures made by wrestlers or other reporting etc then which one of these things is not evidenced in cricket???????? After every crucial/important match/tournament newspapers write down the doubted stories. Even at the start of the big tournaments like WC one can read in newspapers the activities of bookies at the veneues. Do you read newspapers? I think you must. If we talk about statements of players then again in cricket so many players have agreed such facts. It is again not a hidden thing in contrast to WWE. I could really not understand what point of differnce you want me to understand. Can you help please?
As far as the matter of PCB is concerned, I at the very outset said I cannot prove my statement with evidences. It's solely my view which I expressed and this may not totally be agreed by any one else. This was just to share what I feel about the situation and the point which makes me to feel it is the way we are playing and arranging games. I said, you have seen it, you are seeing it and you will be seeing it. Let's concentrate Pakistan India current series. Let's see what happens.
You talk about figures of matches played last year. Yes we played gud matches last year I agree but if you see last five years and compare this whole period with others you might get to know what I want to say. Our players' records show that they have played far lesser than other players of the world even where the careers of our players lasted for more than 15+ years. And while comparing last five years, if you find that currently the figure of matches has gone up than the previous years then again this, in my view, substantiate what I said about how PCB has now been arranging series/matches. It may not appear logical to you.
I think we should leave this topic open for readers. Conclusion is not necessary to reach in such sort of topics. Of course this is not a professional or other vital discussion.
Best regards,
KAMRAN.
