10-21-2009, 03:45 PM
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, san" id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by kamranACA</i>
<br />Dear Sohail,
I have not based any comparison on frivolous and prejudiced grounds like who is bigger, what is curriculum, which one is qualified in shorter time etc. Rather, since the very outset of my participation in forum discussions, I always said that such analysis has to be based upon open market based evidence. Further, throughout all my attendance at this forum, I always clarified that my prime focus during any discussion is on people living and settling within Pakistan. I don't discuss situation at foreign countries since the real majority has to work locally.
You have seen localized and globalize markets and you must know by virtue of your experience that the above statement has to retain its validity regardless of whatever arguments we make.
Here people overwhelmingly discuss and feel proud in making points for the audit rights of private limited companies having paid up capital of pennies. Can you imagine what a joke it is when it comes to compete the big brother? Instead of focusing on the simple un-biased knowledge provoking query, which they must be knowing because of their connectivity, the drift of thought goes on to make comparisons with what they can never compete regardless of whatever they pray or do.
I mean, is not it strange when regardless of inferiority complexes (which no one of other pin points while raising any valid question) they feel and believe that their members sitting in regulating authorities can turn the tables. If they are so desperate then why the tables could not be turned since early 60s?
I again say the audit right of entities having pennies makes no difference and I don't ever say that they don't have such rights. However, is not it suspicious that why the circulars / notifications issued in 1999 (if any) could not make a part of Companies (amendment) Ordinance, 2002 which consolidated all relevant changes? I mean they must be having such notification to make statements, and they must be having so-called very powerful regulators but why they could never regularize such amendments to make it a part of law. Is not it a failure at the part of such so-called powerful regulators?
I agree that we should and we must keep regard of every professional body and its members but we should also avoid getting into controversies. When some professionals will be called "GADHEY" certainly the craps uttering out such mess would be called "GADHEY KAY BACHAY" more specifically when their own past president openly accepted that they are younger brothers i.e. "CHHOTAY GADHEY" or in other words "GADHEY KAY BACHAY".
I am sorry for writing these words but these are only meant to make the members (having positive mindset) realize that what the factual situation is AND what should be the way out to discuss the matters on forums.
As a last point, let me tell you that I have always seen CIMAs doing CA from ICAP or ICAEW for complimenting their qualification (although they in fact have a bit different specialization). I can quote a number of real life examples where it has been done. One member of this forum is also doing same thing. Here a comment was given that the majority of CIMAs opts for membership of ICMAP. Although it is neither a big issue nor it is so vital to be discussed, but can any body quote only five such examples with their membership numbers? This is again a simple query and must not be taken negatively, as our ICMAP brothers normally do.
Thanks for bearing with me.
Regards,
KAMRAN.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Kamran/Tariq/Retarded
I never said that the members of ICMAP in regulatory bodies are so powerful that they can turn the table rather one of my post on October, 17 I posted the following material
<i><font color="red">I often said to one of my friend, who was working with SECP but now has given resign, that CMA's working in SECP are so powerful that they can issue a circular to give full fledge audit rights to practicing CMA's, anyhow its a joke I know very well about provisions of section 254 of CO,1984</font id="red"></i>
See I never said the words which Mr. Kamran wants to put in my mouth. Now you are accepting the audit rights of CMA (Pak). But some days ago you were denying these rights. You complained that I am not giving the answers of your Simple questions but I have been trying to answer your questions for one week. But I asked two question in my post of October,17. But you still not replied them. You often said that you are unbiased but if you are unbiased why you participated on this thread when a discussion about ICMAP was still in process on the other thread. You are a senior person and I know you are a qualified CA and partner in a CA firm so being a senior member it was your responsibility that not post your comment on this thread. Since it was the discussion of CMA's (Pak & UK). That is only you on this thread who is not a CMA.
You say that you are not in favour of comparison of local and foreign qualifications . I am fully agreed with you but why are you comparing CIMA with ICMAP.
In one of your yesterday post you talked about the officials of grade 17 and 18 I am still unable to understand why you did it. But as far as SECP is concerned in SECP Special Pay Scale System persists and average salaries are almost double as compare to those of ministries of Federal Govt. thatâs why professional accountant often prefer joining SECP.
I think you are well aware with the job market of Pakistan just take the newspaper of 1 month you will never find any top position in accounts where CIMA is required qualification. Then why are you preferring CIMA on ICMAP.
You say
"As a last point, let me tell you that I have always seen CIMAs doing CA from ICAP or ICAEW for complimenting their qualification (although they in fact have a bit different specialization"
By quoting these words in fact you have endorsed my point of view.
As far as your challenge in concerned I can give dozens of examples of CIMA members who do ICMA after completing CIMA. But in one of my post I have said that it is not a court room. Who will examine my and your proofs? There is no unbiased person on this forum. Although you are a CA and play a role of refry at least on this thread but you have said in one of thread, that initiated by me entitled "Professional/Academic Qualifications of Membersâ, that you have some kind of blood relation with Astute Accountant and he is perusing CIMA.
Remember I always use yardstick of corporate job market for analysis and never use the public sector job market as yardstick.
In last I request to all members please stop these kinds of destructive discussions and positively participate on the forum. Yesterday I wanted to post my comments on this thread but due to sue side attack on Islamic International University Islamabad I was too much disturb because many of my relatives and friends are teachers and students of the university. In this worst situation of country it do not suit professionals to do personal attack on each other and pass negative remarks towards the institutes of the country.
We are all Pakistani and we should be proud on it. ICAP and ICMAP are both the own institute of this country and both the institutes and their students/members are working for the prosperity and economic development of the country.
Regards,
Awais Aftab
<br />Dear Sohail,
I have not based any comparison on frivolous and prejudiced grounds like who is bigger, what is curriculum, which one is qualified in shorter time etc. Rather, since the very outset of my participation in forum discussions, I always said that such analysis has to be based upon open market based evidence. Further, throughout all my attendance at this forum, I always clarified that my prime focus during any discussion is on people living and settling within Pakistan. I don't discuss situation at foreign countries since the real majority has to work locally.
You have seen localized and globalize markets and you must know by virtue of your experience that the above statement has to retain its validity regardless of whatever arguments we make.
Here people overwhelmingly discuss and feel proud in making points for the audit rights of private limited companies having paid up capital of pennies. Can you imagine what a joke it is when it comes to compete the big brother? Instead of focusing on the simple un-biased knowledge provoking query, which they must be knowing because of their connectivity, the drift of thought goes on to make comparisons with what they can never compete regardless of whatever they pray or do.
I mean, is not it strange when regardless of inferiority complexes (which no one of other pin points while raising any valid question) they feel and believe that their members sitting in regulating authorities can turn the tables. If they are so desperate then why the tables could not be turned since early 60s?
I again say the audit right of entities having pennies makes no difference and I don't ever say that they don't have such rights. However, is not it suspicious that why the circulars / notifications issued in 1999 (if any) could not make a part of Companies (amendment) Ordinance, 2002 which consolidated all relevant changes? I mean they must be having such notification to make statements, and they must be having so-called very powerful regulators but why they could never regularize such amendments to make it a part of law. Is not it a failure at the part of such so-called powerful regulators?
I agree that we should and we must keep regard of every professional body and its members but we should also avoid getting into controversies. When some professionals will be called "GADHEY" certainly the craps uttering out such mess would be called "GADHEY KAY BACHAY" more specifically when their own past president openly accepted that they are younger brothers i.e. "CHHOTAY GADHEY" or in other words "GADHEY KAY BACHAY".
I am sorry for writing these words but these are only meant to make the members (having positive mindset) realize that what the factual situation is AND what should be the way out to discuss the matters on forums.
As a last point, let me tell you that I have always seen CIMAs doing CA from ICAP or ICAEW for complimenting their qualification (although they in fact have a bit different specialization). I can quote a number of real life examples where it has been done. One member of this forum is also doing same thing. Here a comment was given that the majority of CIMAs opts for membership of ICMAP. Although it is neither a big issue nor it is so vital to be discussed, but can any body quote only five such examples with their membership numbers? This is again a simple query and must not be taken negatively, as our ICMAP brothers normally do.
Thanks for bearing with me.
Regards,
KAMRAN.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Kamran/Tariq/Retarded
I never said that the members of ICMAP in regulatory bodies are so powerful that they can turn the table rather one of my post on October, 17 I posted the following material
<i><font color="red">I often said to one of my friend, who was working with SECP but now has given resign, that CMA's working in SECP are so powerful that they can issue a circular to give full fledge audit rights to practicing CMA's, anyhow its a joke I know very well about provisions of section 254 of CO,1984</font id="red"></i>
See I never said the words which Mr. Kamran wants to put in my mouth. Now you are accepting the audit rights of CMA (Pak). But some days ago you were denying these rights. You complained that I am not giving the answers of your Simple questions but I have been trying to answer your questions for one week. But I asked two question in my post of October,17. But you still not replied them. You often said that you are unbiased but if you are unbiased why you participated on this thread when a discussion about ICMAP was still in process on the other thread. You are a senior person and I know you are a qualified CA and partner in a CA firm so being a senior member it was your responsibility that not post your comment on this thread. Since it was the discussion of CMA's (Pak & UK). That is only you on this thread who is not a CMA.
You say that you are not in favour of comparison of local and foreign qualifications . I am fully agreed with you but why are you comparing CIMA with ICMAP.
In one of your yesterday post you talked about the officials of grade 17 and 18 I am still unable to understand why you did it. But as far as SECP is concerned in SECP Special Pay Scale System persists and average salaries are almost double as compare to those of ministries of Federal Govt. thatâs why professional accountant often prefer joining SECP.
I think you are well aware with the job market of Pakistan just take the newspaper of 1 month you will never find any top position in accounts where CIMA is required qualification. Then why are you preferring CIMA on ICMAP.
You say
"As a last point, let me tell you that I have always seen CIMAs doing CA from ICAP or ICAEW for complimenting their qualification (although they in fact have a bit different specialization"
By quoting these words in fact you have endorsed my point of view.
As far as your challenge in concerned I can give dozens of examples of CIMA members who do ICMA after completing CIMA. But in one of my post I have said that it is not a court room. Who will examine my and your proofs? There is no unbiased person on this forum. Although you are a CA and play a role of refry at least on this thread but you have said in one of thread, that initiated by me entitled "Professional/Academic Qualifications of Membersâ, that you have some kind of blood relation with Astute Accountant and he is perusing CIMA.
Remember I always use yardstick of corporate job market for analysis and never use the public sector job market as yardstick.
In last I request to all members please stop these kinds of destructive discussions and positively participate on the forum. Yesterday I wanted to post my comments on this thread but due to sue side attack on Islamic International University Islamabad I was too much disturb because many of my relatives and friends are teachers and students of the university. In this worst situation of country it do not suit professionals to do personal attack on each other and pass negative remarks towards the institutes of the country.
We are all Pakistani and we should be proud on it. ICAP and ICMAP are both the own institute of this country and both the institutes and their students/members are working for the prosperity and economic development of the country.
Regards,
Awais Aftab
