Is ICMAP bigger than CIMA?

[kamranACA]

GreatKhans

First of all let me tell you that beyond the forum based general perception which we drive from the posts of our fellows and upon the foundation of which I have drawn a nice picture of yours in my mind, I also owe you the debt of regard and friendly gesture because you once accepted my request which was presumably not worthy of acceptance due to so many obvious reasons.

I know my last post could have been written on "lower notes" but I also believe that such tone was set by the post of Awais which raised weird questions that were too illiterate, uninformed, indecent, hilarious, and personalized which called for the need of such a reply. Believe you me I assured myself as to the justification of writing this post as a reply before finally submitting it on the forum. If you wish to know the justification, I will come back to you with explanation on each of the paragraphs in my post.

I don't know Awais personally, and have no intimacy as well as allergy with him. I only replied the questions raised in his post (since these were not recommendatory points for others or an institute) on the merit that was required and it happened due to his own style embedded in his drafting. However, unless and until he is not a qualified CMA he is not taken to be as CMA and is not in any particular focus.

I have all the regard for ICMAP's contribution in the country and its professionals (CMAs) who are working locally or abroad since they all are professionals and strengthen our name due to their profound services. Here on this forum, we criticize so many policies of ICAP, ICMAP as well as various other institutes constructively, merely to clarify our understanding and place on record the significant things so that if some one visits the forum or wishes to get clues from the discussion can be benefited. This, we believe, will in return benefit all of us as well. This of course is not aimed at to disgrace any one, since we are quite tiny against the apex bodies that are supported by the people of wisdom and exposure. However, discussing decent suggestions does not undermine anything or disgrace any one.

On another front, if some one asks a question to start or build the foundation of his career, and as a result some other fellow shares his views as to which qualification is leading due to market drive and carries promising future, this should also not be taken negatively since it is the question of some one’s future. Facts cannot be changed, so no one should feel endangered. Yes, if some one has different view point as to the market conditions he must setout his opinion for the common well being. This is an ongoing process and the forum owners have confirmed this understanding so many times.

In one of my earlier posts, I told you that if some where I have gone indecent it is/was my fault and is by no means a thing on which I should feel proud. However, there is a very grave situation on the other hand which our brothers should also keep in view.

Since you are probably also representing CMAs, I wish to convey some of examples to you. These are found on all threads wherever some thing weird is replied. I wish you and all others to read it and if I am wrong, let me know as well. A few things are


1. Even the qualified and sensible CMAs use to shift their all failures or pitfalls or deficiencies on the shoulders of CAs or ICAP. I don’t know why they do it regardless that it is very indecent, weird, unjustified, and merely an allegation. The people who believe in their capabilities, strengths, and faith do not raise such strange and indecent allegations. CMAs are in public sector much more than CAs. You can analyze the figures. Still, some fellows feel that CAs have never let them take a lead. How could it have happened over the ages my brother even if some one has any instance at a given point of time? Did CAs do it every where e.g. SECP, SBP, Stock Exchanges, FBR, Public Sector, Private Sector, Banks, Industries, NBFCs so forth and so on? I in my earlier posts mentioned of some panels of auditors. Was every where sitting a CA who abstained all from bringing forward CMAs? Is it not hilarious if some one raises these allegations? If every where such a CA was sitting then where did our CMAs go?

I wonder that none of the CMA member or student ever comes forward to say that this is a matter of disgrace for their own-selves so if any one is saying such stuff should not do it.

Contrary to it, if some one else clarifies the situation, all CMA brothers (of whom I have due regard) come forward and convey their concerns on the replies given.


2. People like this buddy Awais get personalized and don’t mind mentioning CA firms and their clients’ names on the forum and don’t feel any issue in publicly defaming big-4s or others for no reason. It’s simply defamation and nothing else since such people are not clear on the subject. You will never see any CA on this forum mentioning any ACMA’s name for such purposes. You will appreciate that it’s not impossible since individuals can always have pitfalls and acts of individuals cannot defame a profession or an institute. {You Mashallah yourself appear to be a very good researcher on such issues and you know it’s not difficult, be it about any one}.

Here none of our CMA fellows raises any objection on this all personalized non-sense and when some one tries to clarify the matter and tells an uninformed person that what actually should be done and where his allegation is baseless and defamatory, fellows at once appear and ask why such answer is given and why it is not on lower notes.


3. Some ill-mannered people make baseless points specifically mentioning ICAP’s name just because they are unaware of something. For example here Awais highlighted a clause of Code of Ethics of ICAP (just to support his indecent and incorrect attempt of humiliating this apex institute). He does not know that IFAC bodies as a must have to comply with IFAC’s prescribed ethical requirements. If he was not able to understand it, he should have at least learnt what clause (xxxviii) of Code of Corporate Governance prescribes for auditors in Pakistan. Let me copy this clause here for your reference

“No listed company shall appoint as external auditors a firm of auditors which firm or a partner of which firm is non-compliant with the International Federation of Accountants' (IFAC) Guidelines on Code of Ethics, as adopted by the Institute of Chartered Accountants of Pakistan.”

He does not know that clause 260 of the Code of ICAP is exactly the same as clause 260 ((260.1 to 260.3) of IFAC’s code is. And, this is what law of Pakistan i.e. code of corporate governance strictly requires to be complied with. I hope ICMAP being member of IFAC has also adopted same code of ethics of IFAC; and if this is the case what this buddy was pointing out? Does he advocate doing some thing against the law of Pakistan? When a reply is given such fellows reply “they are yet students and are not expected to have fullest knowledge, and that, in Pakistan bala bala should be better than western countries”. Was there some nudity seen in such clause of code that they were mentioning of western countries? Is it not strange? Still they say why they are tried to be called illiterate. Should ICAP go against Pakistani law? Bhai knowledge nahi hai tu pooch lo aur knowledge kay bina chonch band rakho ya kisi decent tareeqay say poochho.

However, when such people are told that they are unaware or uninformed or illiterate on a subject, my brothers intervene and say I should have not replied baseless allegation. This is not about Awais, rather applies on a number of examples on this forum. I accept your view point that words of the reply should be on lower notes but why my brothers like you don’t comment on the wording and style of the indecent question itself?


4. Certain buddies are so confidently uninformed that they feel that financials are the responsibility of auditors, shortcomings in financials should be removed by auditors, and management has no role in it and if auditor asks to keep quiet even on a righteous issue management is supposed to do so as it is auditors’ responsibility to prepare financials. “ajeeb daastan hai yeh” {This is the first thing that is taught in auditing. Yet they feel to get audit rights. I have no objections on it by the way}. They feel all Pakistan is non-complying IAS-12 and IAS-19 and this fact is known only to them. Allah ke panah. I don’t want to undermine any one but for the sake of reply I firmly believe that it is lack of knowledge at their very much personalized level.

When such confident uninformed buddies are replied (even on a meritorious and righteous ground), my fellows and brothers ask why it has been done. Why they don’t raise any concern on the validity of the question at first? Believe you me, I bet no one in past has done so and no one in future will do it.


5. Some uninformed people say that ICAP members and students don’t criticize ICAP’s policies and don’t suggest improvements or discuss weak areas at the forum. This of course is nothing but a closed eye comment because they just fail to figure out what is being discussed at other threads and sub-forums.

When they are told to open the eyes and don’t get confused, my brothers stop me that why such reply has been given.



So, dear GreatKhans,

I request you and other fellows who have a regard in my heart that although I owe you the debt of love, kindness and affection for the reason of your kind behaviour and I cannot deny your request on such an issue, still please step-in as well when indecency prevails as a result of illiterate defamatory posts submitted by such ill-mannered people.

GreatKhans,

If you feel like having a modification in my previous or this post, do suggest and I will honour your requirement.


Regards,



KAMRAN.