Is ICMAP bigger than CIMA?

[kamranACA]

{This post is in reply of latest post of Awais; and not of Tariq}


Folks,

People can forget something at a given moment but if they are reminded, they should accept what the fact is; and if they do so, it is not a stubborn or illiterate act.

“Illiteracy” here denotes lack of knowledge, having a proud on such lack of knowledge and defaming others for a grave misconception and proud base of deficient knowledge. Such illiteracy comes when one makes out a base-less case for defaming some one else and where the one stick to his view point considering it the right stuff.

The example referred in quotation does not show any indecency based upon lack of knowledge, a proud on such lacking etc,; and it was also proved right on that thread. Even on that thread this confused mind was talking about "badla" etc that is totally non-professional and on which none of CMA came to object that “Ohh Mr. this is a discussion forum and if you were unaware of one leg of the case and have been told, it was nothing like badla.” I however even at that thread told him that it would not serve the purpose of the forum if it is taken as “badla”. It appears, he is tide in the thought of “badla”. When some one fells in such situation, then he produces the things which we saw in his previous posts and in the recent post.


So dear Awais,

Please come out of the vicious circle of "mix vegetables", "quality restaurants", "VIP treatment", "vehicles" bala bala since you don't know the basics of this field. You yourself have proved it by continuing on your incorrect stance. Auditors are appointed by shareholders and not by management; their remuneration and facilities are determined by shareholders and not by management or bottom line managers. If you need to do something, go back to shareholders (through your seniors) and get things placed on record. Don't just feel jealous for the VIP treatment given to others just because you don’t understand what the matter in fact is. Yes, also try to understand that law no where relaxes private limited companies from the condition of “recording” and “maintaining” record minutes of the meetings. Make your records clear and strengthened and then point out the ill-mannered individuals (if any) to the Audit Engagement partner of your firm of auditors. Don’t just baselessly make arguments.

In fact audit is a very elegant profession and auditors are taken to be the representatives of stakeholders by the management and also as guests. Further, people at large recognize the fact that the audit staff is in student life. Oftenly senior management of clients treats them as respected guests which I know at so many entities create issues for so many Manager Accounts. But they just forget that they are no body in the matter of auditors, their remuneration and facilities. It is the issue of shareholders, and/or top executive management on behalf of shareholders.

This is the “hospitality” in most of the cases (where “mix vegetables” is not an issue) which even we auditors show to the clients’ personnel when they visit us. I hardly know a single day in my office when such quality meals, quality tea, coffee, soft drinks or juices are not served to the guests (mostly our clients) depending upon suitability of time. Here is the explanation that what “hospitality” means. I am telling it not merely for you (as you have assumed); rather this is for others who also visit this thread. Code of ethics says, “the existence and significance of any threat will depend upon on the nature, value, and intent of the offer.” The things which don’t carry threats and are inconsequential or of normal course of business in nature do not create any threat are considered normal and are allowed based upon the assessment. If in a town every where auditors are given such a valued treatment on similar basis, then at your entity such rule does not necessarily change unless you have written agreed terms with auditors to which you can enforce. Certainly such terms are decided by shareholders and not by managers.

You are habitually mentioning names of organizations like Hydro Carbon, Big-4, Malik and Company etc and you don’t at all feel these are personalized acts for obvious reasons. You failed to understand the issue at e.g. Hydro Carbon Institute which some of your friend told you. You, being inspired of his idea, have clicked a point (which I suggest you not to do so since it does not suit you) and are writing posts mentioning name of Hydro Carbon Institute that bala bala was done for getting better reports. I have a friend at Hydro Carbon and I just confirmed what has actually gone through. Do you know their “draft” reports have been disclaimed invariably at all locations by their auditors? Do you in fact know what is “disclaimer of opinion”???? I told you that you are ignorant of facts and you are continuously feeling proud of it. Management of Hydro Carbon (at one or two locations only) is of course preparing all deficient record and information and finding all deficient documentation to get a bit better situation in “Final” reports to be issued by auditors. This is what a very senior official of Hydro Carbon told me in the today’s afternoon.

…..…..{So, exactly this example proves that what is “Hospitality” and why it is not supposed to create “threats” for audit. This line is separately written for Dard who asked me a question}………….

About Malik and Company, you have yourself told that action has been taken against them. Yes, we agree every non-professional behavior in audit profession should be reprimanded. Since it has been done, your point is invalid. About Big-4 you could not offer any proof or evidence. I know if we will check each of your case studies, we will find you wrong in most of areas.

I would again write here a piece of advice that if your shareholders or higher management, on their behalf, feel that any audit staff member is crossing decent limits of rights, obligations and Hospitality, they should clarify the matter with the audit firm. This is the reason companies are required to maintain transparent record of every transaction, covenant and event having financial consequence and no such exemption is given to private limited companies. However, since this matter is beyond your vision and control you cannot do anything and if management or shareholders have no issue with it then don’t try to poke your nose in this matter. This might be well within the limits of Hospitality but out of the frame of your thought. If you will not understand it, I fear time may crush very personalized sentiments in the fight of giants.

I hope you cannot understand it.

Regards,


KAMRAN.