02-14-2010, 06:45 AM
Hi Kamran ,
I wouldnât ask you to amend, alter, rescind or delete any part of your post because I donât believe in distorting the history. It should remain on the forum as it is. However, I would like to share my experience in a very generic sense so that no one could feel offending.
I remember that in 1988, I was working on a World Bank project in rural Sind, where a financial consultant visited and being head of finance, I had close relationship with him. When he was leaving for UK, I asked him, âWhat did you learn anything from us? â He smiled and said âYes, shifting of responsibility.â
It has become our national instinct that we are not open to listen and learn. We have lost tolerance as nation and our behaviour is nondemocratic. Each member (I have no exception) of our society thinks that I am the best human being, the best Muslim, the most experienced and knowledgeable person, my educational institution is the best in the world etc. As a result some very petty issue which could have been avoided very easily, become very big problems. This is called âSelf Centered Disorderâ and everyone is suffering from it at a certain level. If we read various post of this forum, no matter what the topic is, it turns to ICAP VS ICMA/ACCA/CIMA/ICAEW etc debate, because of this attitude.
As far as âEthicsâ issue is concerned. I might not have as much knowledge as other forum members have, but the only thing that I know is that IFAC is like general assembly of the UNO, where every member institute has representation. Our role on that forum is just like our role in UNO. So it should not be a matter of prestige. On the other hand corruption has penetrated in our society so deeply that we all are part of that willingly or unwillingly. CAs/CMAs have no exception. Remember that laws come before the ethical standards. We have a tendency that we feel pride in breaking the laws. So in this scenario we should not take standards of ethics and morality on test.
No doubt that ICAP is playing an important role in the development of the profession in Pakistan, as it should. But we should also understand that it is a regulatory body too. I think some people expect the regulators to step in, as we expect police to catch and judiciary to take punitive actions against violators. It is human psychology that the laws are not obeyed but enforced. But the question is that do we go to regulators when we notice any violation?
I have no objection on the technical side of your post but my reservation was only on the tone of the post. I thinks that we should give some discount to our juniors who are in learning phase.
Awais,
I always advise you that do not jump to conclusions, and give verdicts on a particular issue. You should drive a few miles extra; refer to authoritative literature and material, such as Acts, Ordinances, Standards, explanations, proclamation, Interpretations and technical bulletins about the issue and then form a valid opinion with a due diligence defence. You should ask questions as how ICAP ensures that every members of the institute has gone through the Ethical standards? does institute conducts any ethics exam? Does institute requires its members to take an oath to abide by the ethical standards as happens in many countries of the world? How audit of the auditors is conducted? How institute ensure that adequate quality control standards are in place and operational in the firms? ICAP representative like Kamran are there to help in this regard.
Never take the names of persons and firm on public forums and report incidents of misconduct unless you have documentary evidence for the violations of a standard or law. Nor threaten anyone in public. Sometimes we say something and we are not aware of the repercussion effects later in our life.
Again, in my opinion, your prime focus should be your CMA certification and everything comes later. I have been advising you as elder brother because I have experience many fold more than you, so as education, position and age. I do appreciate your emotions, commitment, conviction and passion for the development of the profession, but it requires consolidated efforts.
I hope you all would not feel my comments offending and continue your positive contributions on the forum.
Regards,
GREAT KHANS
I wouldnât ask you to amend, alter, rescind or delete any part of your post because I donât believe in distorting the history. It should remain on the forum as it is. However, I would like to share my experience in a very generic sense so that no one could feel offending.
I remember that in 1988, I was working on a World Bank project in rural Sind, where a financial consultant visited and being head of finance, I had close relationship with him. When he was leaving for UK, I asked him, âWhat did you learn anything from us? â He smiled and said âYes, shifting of responsibility.â
It has become our national instinct that we are not open to listen and learn. We have lost tolerance as nation and our behaviour is nondemocratic. Each member (I have no exception) of our society thinks that I am the best human being, the best Muslim, the most experienced and knowledgeable person, my educational institution is the best in the world etc. As a result some very petty issue which could have been avoided very easily, become very big problems. This is called âSelf Centered Disorderâ and everyone is suffering from it at a certain level. If we read various post of this forum, no matter what the topic is, it turns to ICAP VS ICMA/ACCA/CIMA/ICAEW etc debate, because of this attitude.
As far as âEthicsâ issue is concerned. I might not have as much knowledge as other forum members have, but the only thing that I know is that IFAC is like general assembly of the UNO, where every member institute has representation. Our role on that forum is just like our role in UNO. So it should not be a matter of prestige. On the other hand corruption has penetrated in our society so deeply that we all are part of that willingly or unwillingly. CAs/CMAs have no exception. Remember that laws come before the ethical standards. We have a tendency that we feel pride in breaking the laws. So in this scenario we should not take standards of ethics and morality on test.
No doubt that ICAP is playing an important role in the development of the profession in Pakistan, as it should. But we should also understand that it is a regulatory body too. I think some people expect the regulators to step in, as we expect police to catch and judiciary to take punitive actions against violators. It is human psychology that the laws are not obeyed but enforced. But the question is that do we go to regulators when we notice any violation?
I have no objection on the technical side of your post but my reservation was only on the tone of the post. I thinks that we should give some discount to our juniors who are in learning phase.
Awais,
I always advise you that do not jump to conclusions, and give verdicts on a particular issue. You should drive a few miles extra; refer to authoritative literature and material, such as Acts, Ordinances, Standards, explanations, proclamation, Interpretations and technical bulletins about the issue and then form a valid opinion with a due diligence defence. You should ask questions as how ICAP ensures that every members of the institute has gone through the Ethical standards? does institute conducts any ethics exam? Does institute requires its members to take an oath to abide by the ethical standards as happens in many countries of the world? How audit of the auditors is conducted? How institute ensure that adequate quality control standards are in place and operational in the firms? ICAP representative like Kamran are there to help in this regard.
Never take the names of persons and firm on public forums and report incidents of misconduct unless you have documentary evidence for the violations of a standard or law. Nor threaten anyone in public. Sometimes we say something and we are not aware of the repercussion effects later in our life.
Again, in my opinion, your prime focus should be your CMA certification and everything comes later. I have been advising you as elder brother because I have experience many fold more than you, so as education, position and age. I do appreciate your emotions, commitment, conviction and passion for the development of the profession, but it requires consolidated efforts.
I hope you all would not feel my comments offending and continue your positive contributions on the forum.
Regards,
GREAT KHANS
