09-29-2007, 05:07 AM
Dear Shoaib /Noman,
Shoaib, you have posted a long e-mail full of grouses and complaints that are very normal feature of the age group in which you fall. Nothing contained in your post is such a thing which cannot be replied to clarify the things. The matter basically started from NOC or OC and termination of contract etc. That is the area where you cannot make any pervasive thing to prolong the debate.
All other issues like stipend, late sittings, reviews, attitude of seniors, wait for registration, articles tenure etc not only confined to CA profession. These could be seen every where. Moreover, I personally (not being from management's part) dont regard these issues as material enough to be given much importance. These are the child like complaints.
No body asks you to do CA, if you find the articles tenure un-necessarily longer one. You can do ACCA or ACMA. To get something you have to lose something. Now it could be prolonged to much more length if we dont agree on it.
No body asks you to join a firm where you have to wait long for registration. It is your choice, if not acceptable, go to other firms. At firms side it is their limitation normally as they have limited seats. You period lost for wait of contract registration cannot be included in your articles, as you did it as per your own will, by opting any particular firm. Also, you have to complete your tenure after getting registration, you can avail leaves up to what has been prescribed. It's quite simple, if we dont have to beat about the bushes un-purposefully and wish to understand it. Yes your point of working on off days or for long hours for consideration to be used as credit leave etc is of relevance. We at our firm give such credits and I also know other firms who do it.
Late sittings, out-station assignments, losing classes etc is what CA is known for. We beforehand know this all while we intend to join firms. This is what profession requires, and this is what give ultimate privilage, grace and financial benefits. What you put in, is that what you will take out. I during 75 % tenure of my articles worked on outstation assignments. I never took any classes. I am very well known in my firm (even in its other offices), since years, to be the person who works enormously late. Even students were used to feel fear to join my team while I was personally doing assignments as senior / supervisor / manager etc. Even then I qualified CA along with certain other qualifications. I got progress within my firm (though it is not a very big deal) which so many of those who were reluctant to do whatever I was doing and who always took classes and got benefits could not get. As pointed out for you, I am not trying to be a MIAAN MITHOO. I just want to explain you that the sacrifices are the basic requirement of what we have planned to do while we intend to do CA. And this is what whih pays back. This has much more paid back to so many others who did so well that every body praised them.
You know, this is always your work / firm's name which causes you to get big seats in profession and industry. Otherwise a student dont ever have such contacts and worth. You cant get in the firms who dont have much rush of work and who dont have such late sittings and enormous reviews and other things what you get in big firms. If this is true, then you should get all the answers to your queries.
As far as stipend is concerned, though I had never been much attracted to this nominal amount, still its the right of students to discuss it with regulators through forums like CASA etc. You must know that in history of ICAP there had not only been CAs to occupy council of ICAP. Other people on deputation have also been a part of this council. So, you cannot strictly allege it to be an endeavor from CAs to keep the stipend on lower side. This is policy matter and I cannot speak much about it. In my view it is graceful to call it stipend instead of salary. If it has to be a salary, then it is not respectful even if you get double of existing rates.
Dear Noman,
I dont argue against your point about allocations. Firms should make best effort to train the students in every respect. Allocations should be made accordingly.
Regards,
Kamran.
Shoaib, you have posted a long e-mail full of grouses and complaints that are very normal feature of the age group in which you fall. Nothing contained in your post is such a thing which cannot be replied to clarify the things. The matter basically started from NOC or OC and termination of contract etc. That is the area where you cannot make any pervasive thing to prolong the debate.
All other issues like stipend, late sittings, reviews, attitude of seniors, wait for registration, articles tenure etc not only confined to CA profession. These could be seen every where. Moreover, I personally (not being from management's part) dont regard these issues as material enough to be given much importance. These are the child like complaints.
No body asks you to do CA, if you find the articles tenure un-necessarily longer one. You can do ACCA or ACMA. To get something you have to lose something. Now it could be prolonged to much more length if we dont agree on it.
No body asks you to join a firm where you have to wait long for registration. It is your choice, if not acceptable, go to other firms. At firms side it is their limitation normally as they have limited seats. You period lost for wait of contract registration cannot be included in your articles, as you did it as per your own will, by opting any particular firm. Also, you have to complete your tenure after getting registration, you can avail leaves up to what has been prescribed. It's quite simple, if we dont have to beat about the bushes un-purposefully and wish to understand it. Yes your point of working on off days or for long hours for consideration to be used as credit leave etc is of relevance. We at our firm give such credits and I also know other firms who do it.
Late sittings, out-station assignments, losing classes etc is what CA is known for. We beforehand know this all while we intend to join firms. This is what profession requires, and this is what give ultimate privilage, grace and financial benefits. What you put in, is that what you will take out. I during 75 % tenure of my articles worked on outstation assignments. I never took any classes. I am very well known in my firm (even in its other offices), since years, to be the person who works enormously late. Even students were used to feel fear to join my team while I was personally doing assignments as senior / supervisor / manager etc. Even then I qualified CA along with certain other qualifications. I got progress within my firm (though it is not a very big deal) which so many of those who were reluctant to do whatever I was doing and who always took classes and got benefits could not get. As pointed out for you, I am not trying to be a MIAAN MITHOO. I just want to explain you that the sacrifices are the basic requirement of what we have planned to do while we intend to do CA. And this is what whih pays back. This has much more paid back to so many others who did so well that every body praised them.
You know, this is always your work / firm's name which causes you to get big seats in profession and industry. Otherwise a student dont ever have such contacts and worth. You cant get in the firms who dont have much rush of work and who dont have such late sittings and enormous reviews and other things what you get in big firms. If this is true, then you should get all the answers to your queries.
As far as stipend is concerned, though I had never been much attracted to this nominal amount, still its the right of students to discuss it with regulators through forums like CASA etc. You must know that in history of ICAP there had not only been CAs to occupy council of ICAP. Other people on deputation have also been a part of this council. So, you cannot strictly allege it to be an endeavor from CAs to keep the stipend on lower side. This is policy matter and I cannot speak much about it. In my view it is graceful to call it stipend instead of salary. If it has to be a salary, then it is not respectful even if you get double of existing rates.
Dear Noman,
I dont argue against your point about allocations. Firms should make best effort to train the students in every respect. Allocations should be made accordingly.
Regards,
Kamran.
