ACCA Affiliate stipend slashed? in Big4

[rabia-k]

mr rafay i am not going for ICAEW at present.even if in case i go for ICAEW i will be doing it here in UAE, as here its open for CIMA/CIPFA/ ACCA students/ affiliates at all levels etc etc. . i dont see it as repeating myself if i do ICAEW. its only going to be a "TOP UP", just as it is for ICAP members in pakistan.

Mr. Kamran do you know or have seen women working as auditors?? a close family friend of mine( a senior auditor himself in a mid tier firm) says that the audit field is not for women!! this statement really keeps worrying me as i have already made up mind to work in audit.

[rafay321]

Working in audit means late sittings. Its a common view in Pak that girls can;t stay out late so this is where the problem comes in. I have seen many many girls my seniors infact completing audit training successfully. If you have plans to work in audit in UAE then obviously there wont be any issue not eben in Pak. Its a false myth.

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[rabia-k]

i cant advise you about the market situation as i am not a working professioal. you have family here, your brother can advise you better of the current situation. however none of my acquaintances, working in BIG4 and mid tier firm ,have lost their jobs. this may be because they are already members of professional bodies ACCA/CPA and have more than 3 yrs experience.

please also note that some firms are cutting jobs of new recruites , who are still on probation. mostly the first 6 months of the job is called probation period.

[kamranACA]

Dear Rafay,

You again mixed up your ACCA with CA firms who are basically run by ICAP members and are primarily supposed to promote CA profession in Pakistan. You must appreciate that no ACCA can so far be intaken as partner in a CA firm. This may happen in the coming times but you should professionaly not ask for it. No one has ever abstained any ACCA from establishing a non-audit consultancy or advisory or accountancy firms. If audit authorization is given to ACCA, I would be the first to endorse such a decision. Because this is the way to expose some one professionally.

To my understanding if a class is feeling so affected why its people don't take a step forward. This is my point. You, as you said, are Mashallah an affiliate, may complete the training requirement, get the membership and try to be a pioneer to resolve the issues of your people by establishing such a firm. While doing so, I guess you will pay much more stipends to ACCA students and affiliates. We will not bother if you will not intake CA students or will prescribe a lesser stipend.

This may not be a professional answer, I agree without getting pointed it out, but your query and example suggested it.

So buddy, try to resolve your problems at your own or through your chapter and please don't mix up other things and qualifications which are morally not supposed to give you a supporting hand, although some how they are even doing this.

I can only advise you to debate on an issue after having its understanding. You are, however, free to say whatever you like.

Regards,


KAMRAN.

[kamranACA]

Rafay,

Job situation at Dubai is not good. There are no two views.

However, people are getting jobs even in this situation specially in accountancy firms. My cousin, who qualified CA last month, and completed his training at the end of November 2008, has recently been intaken by a big 4 firm at Dubai and off course the package is not bad.

I think it depends upon opportunities and luck. However, to my understanding these are the worst days at UAE.

Rabia,

Girls can do very good in audit. Don't give an ear to the ones who ask you to betray your career. One has to make his/her own path and future by his/her own hands.

Just to tell you the first who professionally impressed me in CA was a girl and she was a manager audit at my firm.


Regards,


KAMRAN

[rafay321]

Thankyou for your advice regarding UAE market. Congrats to your cousin and best of luck. My cousin whose name is also Kamran works in UAE and earns EXTREMELY GOOD package. He is in banking industry and also CA qualified from ICAP.


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[kamranACA]

Dear,

First of all you have nothing to celebrate for anything I wrote above. I don't base my views on others' mindsets and give statements under any influence. Definitely the developed nations are far ahead of our social and economic culture and set up. This has, however, nothing to do with institutes or firms. In Pakistan things have to move with the stipulations contained in law. Who will invest his resources on a designation-holder that will never come up to join their hands in the long run.

Pakistani firms are very small practices when compared to the nations and setups you are talking about. People develop their human resource for strategic reasons. Keep in mind, in a given legislative setup no body can waste its efforts, resources and time on useless things. Here, the main objective of retaining the people/students is to promote them through a process from Assistant Manager to the level of Partner. If one knows that a man can't go beyond a certain level, should he logically opt to choose him?

That's why I asked you to criticise GOP instead of CAs, if you feel like doing so. You are just not concentrating on the problem and are merely arguing for no sake.

However, there are so many other reasons for preferring CA students over ACCA, I once explained to ACCA chapter. I asked them to resolve the issues with their students which sometimes make them a last preference for big CA firms. I don't know if they have started working on it or not.

There is no difference in mentaility. You must keep it in record that the difference is due to qualification emanating, at least, from this third world country's laws. ICAP and its members have no fault in it.

On the other hand, ACCA chapter and association has never bothered to keep good relations with local charterholder. It is a fact. You are not at a stage where you can see this happening. When some one is new and has to make its place, he cannot dictate his terms. If we are muslims, we have the example of Hudaibia pact. I am not asking you to think religiously. Rather, gave you an example.

If ACCA was not able to convince local charterholders or GOP, it should have not induced students to get its qualifications. It is simple. And, if it has induced, it is its own responsibility to sort out matters with GOP, and if in their opinion ICAP is an obstacle, then with ICAP. Is it a fault of ICAP, if some one knowngly and willfully opts for ACCA. Certainly not. So one should bear the burden of his own decisions. There is nothing suspecious in it.

To another thing you pointed out, I must place on record that apart from UK and UAE, you will not find such a heaven in other so called 80 countries, which you are dreaming about. Moreover, in my view it's no logic to move for the reason of a qualification. People get the knwoledge and technology and move in. Here guys get the knowledge and technology and are supposed to move out. We have debated on it and I think it must not go long at this thread.

I would be welcoming you to come back and start a firm here whenever you like. However, keep in mind there are some biggest firms (in Pakistan terms) which are not CA audit firms and are having loads and loads of consultancy businesses. These could have CAs in majority in Pakistan but these are not the CA firms engaged in audit at all. Do you need examples? You may also find such firms internationally. I know such international firms since I have worked with them in certain consortia arrangements. I am at the moment in the process of forming such a consortia for a consultancy assignment of SBP.

Advisory and consultancy roles are not specific for CAs only. They may also not be very much specific to acountancy only. That's why I encourage people like you and also ask your chapter to get this idea, in all our meetings.

People ask me that I am wasting time at this forum. I normally don't agree to this statement. But sometimes I feel it, specially when very straightforward things are not digested by the others.

Here we see people who, being manager accounts of so called second largest company in a given sEctor, don't exactly know what financial reporting framework is applicable to their own entity, and don't hesitate making claims against CA qualification on which they in fact depend for all guidance and learning.

Regards,


KAMRAN.

[rabia-k]

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, san" id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by kamranACA</i>
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To another thing you pointed out, I must place on record that apart from UK and UAE, you will not find such a heaven in other so called 80 countries, which you are dreaming about. .

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Dear
Mr Kamran please elaborate on this point you have made. what makes you say this. please let me know so that i can find out whether its me whose in doubt or its you who is in doubt.

[rafay321]

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[rabia-k]

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, san" id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by rafay321</i>
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<b>Rabia he wanted to say that ACCAs are not allowed to practice in all these 80 countries unless passing few local exams. </b> I think it is still better off than Pakistan. Atleast we get the recognition after passing say 3-4 exams which can be passed most importantly.
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LOL..every ACCA seminar that i have visted in some glitzy Dubai hotel begins with "ACCA is a globally recognised body with offices in 80 countries" yet if we want to live and work in some country other than a gulf one, we have to take and pass exams!!! when we ACCA'S join ACCA we are only told that our qualification is recognised in more than 80 countries . what sort of global recognition when we have to sit and pass exams from other accountancy bodies.

[Toronto_Boy]

rabia-k

To become CGA Canada, an ACCA member needs to satisfy very minimal requirements, like two days online Canadian Law review course.

To become CPA (USA) from Colorado State, an ACCA member satisfies educational requirements and can write CPA exam for Colorado.

With time, you would learn that there is no ABSOLUTE globally prefered qualification in accounting is available in this world. Acceptability to work in accounting and preference are two different issues. ACCA provides very much acceptance/advantage in those countries as compared to Pakistani designations.

I hope it helps.

Regards

[kamranACA]

Rafay,

Teaching to students is academic and is not a professional achievement so it has no weightage when talking in practical terms. I used to teach some 4 to 5 years earlier to CA final and ACCA final students and that was also not for money.

Apart from the severe contradiction in your post, I know every sort of examples could be quoted. I also know that 100s of staff members are recruited by the firms but only a few reach the director or partner level. Some leave the firm in the midways and some are fired out. Even then to have a reasonable population for selecting a sample, why one should go for the ones who would eventually not be of any use. This was just a reply to your question in the fashion your post warranted.

I, however, know the firms where ACCAs are working at some managerial level. There was a time when two of my own assistant managers were also ACCA affiliates (also CA finalist).

However, the fact has not to change. If you feel you are upto it, you have to prove it at your own. It's weird to want, and long for assistance from the competitors. You will not see CAs doing so, even where, in your words, they come back in no times. {You forget that you also said such issues are not existant at other locations and are the norms of our society which is power oriented. People use to forget their own words I know}.

If you cannot make a place at your own, it would be better to leave. The ones who leave cannot make their place for centuries. They always keep on leaving. It is also a truth. It's a fact that for having a position you have to face, sacrifice, fight. No fights, no sacrifices, no wins. Mind it. The ones who plan to leave for the fear of some ruomours cannot survive. Keep this in mind; this is something beyond the academic thoughts. If you will carry similar thoughts you will be criticising all the 80 locations you are pointing out. I am telling you in advance. Don't expect from others that they will provide room for you. Survival of the fittest is something which you must not forget. Make a place at your own. Try your best. There will come bundles of obstacles, Face them and get the success. What else I can say. Leave the country if you plan so. People even leave their families. Who cares.


Again I tell you this is the answer which your post warranted. Otherwise there could have been many solutions which we can discuss.


Rabia

I meant what you deduced to some extent. ACCA is recognised and may have certain MRAs which we use to hear in loud voices. Let's see how many out of these 80 would offer a different situation than Pakistan. I already excluded UK and UAE. However, in UK a fresh ACCA is getting 18000 UK pounds per annum at this moment which is a poor salary level. Mind it, it is poor level. At UAE market is so ruined that there is no where to run. Let's see what remaining 78 offer.

ACCA projects it too much since it's extremely commercialized. You can go to Amir's (an ACCA) posts how people get attracted to it.

I only have to say that I am least affected. I always ask people to take the burden of their decisions.

Regards,


KAMRAN.

[Toronto_Boy]

Dear All

This issue has become a dead beat horse now. Every single thread is turning into same useless ACCA vs. CA debate. Students of accounting should see all discussions already available in detail at this forum and do whatever suits you in your circumstance. Both the parties have very valid points to consider. Rather than keep repeating those we should move forward and see how can we develop accounting profession further in Pakistan and how can we compete with rest of the world and get their acceptance of accounting in Pakistan.

Just my two cents... People have full right to disagree.

Regards

[rabia-k]

mr toronto boy

just for general information, can u please tell me about the MRA ACCA has with CGA.? the exemptions available to ACCAs'.

could you please also give info about CPA. do ACCA's get some sort of exemptions in the CPA exams?? i wish to take up audit as a career. i have heard that to work as an auditor in US one has to be a CPA??

[Toronto_Boy]

rabia-k

An ACCA member can become CGA Canada after satisfying almost negligible requirements, from anywhere in the world i.e. without physically coming to Canada. Moreover, a student of ACCA can get exmptions for CGA cources on paper to paper basis. For further details please follow the links;

http//www.cga-canada.org/en-ca/International/StrategicAlliances/MraAccaCga/Pages/ca_mra_acca_cga.aspx

http//www.cga-canada.org/en-ca/International/StrategicAlliances/MraAccaCga/Pages/ca_mra_faq_acca.aspx

http//www.accaglobal.com/members/cpd/learning_opportunities/partner_resources/resources

Working as just an auditor in USA and working as CPA designated auditor or accountant in USA are two different things. Anyone with relevant education can have a job in USA in audit firms, but to excell in profession in USA one eventually needs CPA designation.

There are several requirements to be a CPA like educational requirements, experience requirements, social security number (like Pakistani identity card number) or residency requirements etc. There are further requirements under educational and experience requirements like number of credit hours in different subjects, 150/120 credit hour requirement, experience certification by CPA supervisor or acceptance of some foreign qualified CA supervisor's certification of experience etc. These rules are quite complex and MUST need to be checked BEFORE applying and sitting for CPA exams that can only be taken in USA. State of Colorado accepts ACCA to satisfy educational requirements. Still one needs to satisfy other requirements.

Please search this forum, enough information and weblinks are already provided. For further search, please check State Board of Accounting websites and check at following link;

http//www.cpanet.com/

http//www.aicpa.org/yellow/ypsboa.htm

I hope it helps.

Regards