ACCA vs CA

[Nascar]

(this wont interest u if u had not read earlier mails, I apologize for that and being too sarcastic-it just hurts more this way and hopefully the hurt will make ACCAs change for good)

Dear All,

Sorry for giving a late response I was not as free to check the forum daily as some people are (one type specially, ur guess!), but I got some free time today to so I m writing this long mail. Hopefully this keep the ACCAs busy for a month or so.

Any way I avoided being personnel (never gave a personnel comment on a person) but it seems that I have hurt feelings to such an extent that ACCA’s are getting personnel. I will still try to respond within the ACCA and CA spheres. I thoroughly enjoyed every body’s comments, specially the superiority complex thing, perhaps it’s the treatment CAs usually get unlike most ACCAs.

I would have loved to see the identification of self contradictory paragraphs I had written earlier. Perhaps they were hard to pinpoint for an ACCA. I will try to respond to the various issues raised earlier.

Just to settle the comparison issue
even accountancy bodies compare their qualifications/course contents etc to grant exemptions, equivalency. I hope ACCAs would not disagree from this fact as their survival was and is dependent on the exemptions granted based on comparisons. if they don’t change future survival will also be based on exemptions given in charity.

I would love to understand the difference between prof qualification and Uni degrees in an ACCA’s language at the level of their intellect. May be there is a thing like a professional degree??or may be not???

Usually professional institutions don’t differ between their members and each is considered equal. Isn’t it the same in ACCA or r there ACCA with XX% marks and YY% marks. So wats the use of marks at this level. Anyway ultimately one proves him/her self in the market and it the survival for the fittest in the market and weeping doesn’t help.

i would not like to talk about UK scenario but in PAK scenario the difference between ACCA trainees and CA trainees is the lower level of commitment and the complex of equality with CA students.

ACCA and ICAP examination systems both now allow paper by paper pass we will c whether CA becomes easier to pass than ACCA now. We all know the answer in our hearts!!!

Sorry for confusing CFA as being comparable to accounting qualifications I thought it was a professional qualification relating to the field of financial analysis. I cant remember exactly because of my intellectual level but perhaps financial management is not taught to accountants. I am a CFA enrolled student and have appeared in level I exam once and have failed but still respect the qualification to a great extent unlike wat ACCAs feel after failing to pass CA exams.

I am waiting for the time when the millions of successful ACCAs now working in UK (preparing individual tax returns, accounts for corner shops, beauty saloons and similar big organizations) will return to Pakistan and prove themselves here. All the CAs will Sure like 2 face and compete them. May be at some time in near future we may be needing lots of shop accountants for documentation of the economy.

If ACCAs want to get into a big org they just have to ask half the price a CA would ask that how ACCAs can enter AND then compete with CAs and prove themselves. ACCAs - U CAN USE THIS AS A STRATEGIC PLAN

CAs dont normally go for any other prof qualification which once again proves that they can easily survive with one qualification plus they can only find few better qualifications than CA unlike ACCAs. As for professional development CAs have a CPE program do ACCA have anything similar.

I like the salary survey link it was most interesting, must be reassuring for ACCAs and will promote them to come back to Pakistan and prove their metal in PAK as well. I never question ACCA capabilities may be the market does in PK. ACCAs need to do something to change this. Actions not words.

Please correct me I thought ACCAs require a 3yr interenship thing to become a member and CAs have to do 4 yrs article ship, may be 1 extra year of training make CAs worse and less competent than ACCAs. The starting stipend level of ACCA trainees most certainly is better for ACCAs even in Pakistan atleast in the big four I don’t know why this trend is not continued after wards!!!!!!!!!!!1

In the market, salary and position held is the only true reflection of a professional’s abilities. I cant understand why being old ICAEW is the more prestigious body in UK, may just be that it has got something to do with their quality and the positions held by ICAEWs. ACCAs try gaining market prestige and maintaining it.

Being an ACCA and wanting to become like a CA is sure a dream, 80% + of ACCA students are dreaming this at least in Pakistan, just convince them not to and the ACCAs sitting abroad will get their answer to which qualification is better (considered better ) in pakistan.

The US experience of ACCAs being better than CAs will assure ACCAs of their position in US. I tend to agree that generalization for CA, ACCA or any other qualification is bad as usually individual’s impressions are based on personnel experiences but everyone is free to have his own perception. My opinion is based on personal experiences so cant change them easily.

Thanks a lot to all members participating, this is a fun thing for me, If any one wants to get more personal on this issue I will be pleased to provide my contact details.


NASCAR
KPMG
Islamabad

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Dear all (specially Nascar)

now u r talking, u have made me clueless, i dont know what else i can say to prove my points....u have made my job even more easier after writing superb pieces of self-contradictory paragraphs which depicts nothing but pure SUPERIORITY COMPLEX. plz dont take it personal, most CAs have it....so nothing to worry about.

let me start again with my very first point that one CANNOT compare prof qulifications. after refering to ur response i would conclude that U dont even recognise the diff b/w a prof qualification and Uni degrees (MBAs), let me quote urself for a second

"EVERY BODY compares professional qualifications even same qualifications from different institutions"

above is not possible in any prof CHARTERED accountancy body.

it is not the qualification but its output (qualified members) that can be compared, there is a BIG diff b/w the two. Two qualified CAs can have diff levels of intellect (if they have any - just kidding).

i would recommend u not to talk about UK scenerio(i m working in a firm of accountants and two qualified CAs and one finalist work under me) i can assure u thats not the case in UK, infact to some extent employers prefer to have ACCA trainees than CA trainees mainly because ACCA trainees can spend more time in office during their courses (well thats not very relevant with our discussion - we can talk about it somewhere else).

passing rate CAN be a judge of examination difficulty ONLY when the examination systems are same, there is NO comparison between ACCA and ICAP examination systems when one system allows paper by paper pass and the other on part basis. thats the reason ACCA is comparabily easy to pass.

i have never comeacross a single valid rational reason for not PUBLISHING the exact marks. if u (being mature) have discovered the justification of it then plz let me know as well.

once again u are behaving like a child, my friend our discussion is about ACCA vs CA, which are similar in context, u cant just bring in CFA for the sake of justifying ur point, CFA is completely diff (a news to u ....isn't it?) and whatever their examination bodies do are irrelevant in our discussion.

regarding ur second paprgraph about Finance Ministers, i have nothing to say except that it clearly dipicts ur complex. i have no complains, i m sitting in the market and competing very well with all other professionally qualified accountants, and i will do the same when i will comeback to pakiland (make sure u dont face me), i m sure there would be many ACCAs who can prove their presence in any company if they are allowed to get into the company by terrified CA employers who are worried about their own positions and dont have the courage to compete with ACCAs on equal grounds, perhaps that is one of the main reasons they dont wanna let ACCAs in the company. i m not complaining....am I? isn't it true? if u think u r better then why dont u take ACCAs inn and compete with them.

now ur so called comparison b/w ACCA - CMA & CA. i know many CMAs who are doing ACCA and CA to add finance/audit and tax areas under their belts. its true that CAs dont normally go for anyother prof qualification which once again prove their self-believed arrogance that they dont need to learn anything else. i feel sad for such people who deliberately put a FULL STOP on their development side.

the salary issue as per the latest survey conducted by HAYS Personel Agency in UK

- CMAs are the highest earners (mainly because they work in industry)
since we are discussing ACCA vs CA i will stick to the salary comparisons b/w the two.

yes CAs are paid HIGHER, want to know WHY? only and only because when they qualify they have got 4 years articles exp to speak for higher package, unfortunately fresh ACCAs dont have this luxury. if u talk about the Trainee Stipends/Salaries, let me surprise u again, most often ACCA trainees are paid higher mainly because of their availibilty in the office.

i dont want to comment upon pak salary comparisons since they are biased and are not a true reflection of ACCA grads abilities.
in UK there is no such prejudice.

to make u please YES ICAEW is more prestigious mainly because it is an old establihed body.

if thats the way all CAs think, then i, being an ACCA would never want to become like a CA. secondlly this is what u think that ACCAs dream of CAs, u r so funny .........i can only laugh on that, see who is talking about self esteem, this can be voted as the joke of the century.

i think the above is enough for u to digest today.

let me apologise if u took anything personally, remember we all belong to the same family of accountants and we should respect eachother. ur experiences could be right but it all depends upon the people u sit with, ur ACCA colleagues/fellow students/friends could have made u think like that but it doesn't mean that all fingers are equal though belong to the same hand. (now dont quote these lines for comparing qualifications - i m talking about INDIVIDUALS)

i thank you for appreciating my words of wisdom

"talking high can never make u superior unless u prove it"

perhaps u must also try to understand it.

Kind Regards

Azeem Shah Khan
Audit and Assurance
Hardy & Company
Chartered Accountants


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