02-19-2010, 07:39 AM
Ajnabi
Thanks for your post and inputs on the topic and welcome back after your visit.
You have well defined, rather identified the reasons and deficiencies for which there are issues with permitting Audit rights to CMAs, be it cost audit or whatever. I have reasons to believe that unless such impediments are not corrected "audit rights" is not an issue for CMAs; rather ability and resource to perform "quality" audit is their core issue. I gave example of tax audit "rights" given to CMAs, which unfortunately could not help CMAs to secure even a single audit in actual allocation. Reasons are obvious, identified, and of course correctable.
As I said earlier, well structured, compulsory, vigorous and tough training is an imperative requirement (one of two) to produce a "professional" be it CA, CMA or of whatever field (doctor, engineer, pilot, lawyer, scientist etc) . Here the word professional has to be used and it needs to be carefully differentiated.if you are not trained, there is a little difference between you and M Coms and MBAs. You may not accept what I am saying; and for any graceful difference I do have all the professional regard.
Besides having fullest regard of your view point, I am sorry that I can't even accept that CMA syllabus anywhere offers greater depth than CA. Earlier there were 4 exams to qualify CA that have now been converted to 6 moduler exams. Merely increasing the number of papers or subjects does not mean you are going in some further depth. It however makes things easier some times and saves from tough times. I firmly believe you have some issues with understanding the facts or you by nature are inclined to present a better picture of one over the other. It's your prerogative and I am no body to influence your choice or thought. Being a human I can also be wrong in what I understand. That's why I thought it should not be debated further.
Further, keeping in view the difference of 5 years in establishment and comparitively lesser students trend/choice of joining CMA profession over CA (you can check number of students entered every year through all streams), the number of CAs and CMAs so far produced in Pakistan do not materially differ.
Although I do respect your view point but mentioning something due to influence of some others' info does not suit a person who Mashallah holds two international qualifications. I, at least expect better, independent and balanced analysis from you.
Just for an example that your analysis is one sided, influenced and totally against the facts, let me tell you with all due regard and respect that if we accept that only 5 percent of CMAs are produced every year against total CAs produced, then todate CMAs must have not been crossed a number of 250 to 275 since the inception of establishment of ICMAP. You I think are not aware that CAs so far produced have not crossed 6000 since the year 1961. These are yet around 5500 so far out of which number the alive CAs would not be more than 4400 (current rough estimate based upon last years actual figures).
I hope you don't need to be told that how many CMAs have been produced. Certainly they are not 250 in number as portrayed by your analysis.
I hope being a qualified person you would be knowing that ICMAP came into existence after 5 years of ICAP, and there is a substantial difference in the average number of students' intake in both professions.if you doubt on this, I hope you can get data of students intakes in both institutes during say last five years. Yet, you can figure out CMAs so far produced by ICMAP.
I hope you will gracefully accept your incorrect information and wrong estimation that has gravely affected the validity of the half of the material contained in your post and to your overall stance on the subject matter as well. I hope you will revisit your 5 percent conclusion.
I would reiterate that its my utmost wish that others should get rights provided they prove their capabilities since this is supposed to increase healthy competition in the market. However, "provided that they prove their capabilities" is of stringent importance and certainly I am no body to decide that such capability has been proved or in what time will be proved. (Although I may carry my personal opinion but no body should be affected since personally I can be right as well as wrong). To achieve what is required depends upon vision and an actively pursuaded and monitored action plan.
A also believe that you or I can only make suggestions that are neither a guaranteed step or measure to rectify the things nor are they any decision or conclusion.
I at the end would again like to thank you for sparing time and letting us know your view point. I also hope to see continued better analysis and nice inputs from you.
Stay safe and keep posting nice stuff.
Regards,
Kamran.
Thanks for your post and inputs on the topic and welcome back after your visit.
You have well defined, rather identified the reasons and deficiencies for which there are issues with permitting Audit rights to CMAs, be it cost audit or whatever. I have reasons to believe that unless such impediments are not corrected "audit rights" is not an issue for CMAs; rather ability and resource to perform "quality" audit is their core issue. I gave example of tax audit "rights" given to CMAs, which unfortunately could not help CMAs to secure even a single audit in actual allocation. Reasons are obvious, identified, and of course correctable.
As I said earlier, well structured, compulsory, vigorous and tough training is an imperative requirement (one of two) to produce a "professional" be it CA, CMA or of whatever field (doctor, engineer, pilot, lawyer, scientist etc) . Here the word professional has to be used and it needs to be carefully differentiated.if you are not trained, there is a little difference between you and M Coms and MBAs. You may not accept what I am saying; and for any graceful difference I do have all the professional regard.
Besides having fullest regard of your view point, I am sorry that I can't even accept that CMA syllabus anywhere offers greater depth than CA. Earlier there were 4 exams to qualify CA that have now been converted to 6 moduler exams. Merely increasing the number of papers or subjects does not mean you are going in some further depth. It however makes things easier some times and saves from tough times. I firmly believe you have some issues with understanding the facts or you by nature are inclined to present a better picture of one over the other. It's your prerogative and I am no body to influence your choice or thought. Being a human I can also be wrong in what I understand. That's why I thought it should not be debated further.
Further, keeping in view the difference of 5 years in establishment and comparitively lesser students trend/choice of joining CMA profession over CA (you can check number of students entered every year through all streams), the number of CAs and CMAs so far produced in Pakistan do not materially differ.
Although I do respect your view point but mentioning something due to influence of some others' info does not suit a person who Mashallah holds two international qualifications. I, at least expect better, independent and balanced analysis from you.
Just for an example that your analysis is one sided, influenced and totally against the facts, let me tell you with all due regard and respect that if we accept that only 5 percent of CMAs are produced every year against total CAs produced, then todate CMAs must have not been crossed a number of 250 to 275 since the inception of establishment of ICMAP. You I think are not aware that CAs so far produced have not crossed 6000 since the year 1961. These are yet around 5500 so far out of which number the alive CAs would not be more than 4400 (current rough estimate based upon last years actual figures).
I hope you don't need to be told that how many CMAs have been produced. Certainly they are not 250 in number as portrayed by your analysis.
I hope being a qualified person you would be knowing that ICMAP came into existence after 5 years of ICAP, and there is a substantial difference in the average number of students' intake in both professions.if you doubt on this, I hope you can get data of students intakes in both institutes during say last five years. Yet, you can figure out CMAs so far produced by ICMAP.
I hope you will gracefully accept your incorrect information and wrong estimation that has gravely affected the validity of the half of the material contained in your post and to your overall stance on the subject matter as well. I hope you will revisit your 5 percent conclusion.
I would reiterate that its my utmost wish that others should get rights provided they prove their capabilities since this is supposed to increase healthy competition in the market. However, "provided that they prove their capabilities" is of stringent importance and certainly I am no body to decide that such capability has been proved or in what time will be proved. (Although I may carry my personal opinion but no body should be affected since personally I can be right as well as wrong). To achieve what is required depends upon vision and an actively pursuaded and monitored action plan.
A also believe that you or I can only make suggestions that are neither a guaranteed step or measure to rectify the things nor are they any decision or conclusion.
I at the end would again like to thank you for sparing time and letting us know your view point. I also hope to see continued better analysis and nice inputs from you.
Stay safe and keep posting nice stuff.
Regards,
Kamran.