Double Standard of Pakistanis towards the foreign

kamranACA · 05-09-2007, 05:33 PM

Dear Amir,

I wrote what exactly the situation is. I need not to disgrace any one. No body has made me to sustain any losses.

You can only consult those who are working in these countries. Fates are written by God and every one is fed/supported by almighty Allah. ACCAs might be finding jobs every where but I wrote which is a practical reality. I need not to go for International articles/journals. I have seen people who are struggling in various countries (except UK) for jobs having this qualification.

I understand that at UK or UAE, ACCA has wide acceptance. What I want to explain is that, this aceptance does not made ACCA a preferable option over CA, CPA or CFA etc. Off course it comes after these bigger qualifications. The biggest seats are not with ACCA and I dont talk about rare cases. In UK, CAs from ICEAW are much worthy than ACCA and in USA same situation exists for CPAs; they are on top. One should not forget that in Pakistan this situation also does not turn. CAs are much better than ACCA. I need not to explain it again and again.

Yes, logically speaking, There must be a reason that ACCA came into existence much after CA. It might work out to be a better qualification one day. But that DAY is not still predictable. AT LEAST IN PAKISTAN IT IS NOT IN "MUSTAQBIL QAREEB".

One cant run beyond the surface and one cant fly beyond the skies. We should accept the realities.

I just wonder who is talking about ethics. I dont comment becoz it will become a personal issue which I always avoid. Yes, professional discussion can continue.

Mr. Amir is always welcomed to present his views. I remain at forum to reply his posts, where deemed necessary. I just wish to save the others from being affected by the wrong assessments made by certain people about ACCA.

Mr. Mahmood is very respectable and I have no arguments against his advice.

Regards,

Kamran.

kamranACA · 05-09-2007, 05:41 PM

By the way, I wonder the same act done by Amir never becomes cheap. While if it is done by others, it becomes cheap.

Mashallah.

He leaves no stone unturned in proving ACCA better and rejecting all other qualifications in his so-called 73 countries specially CAs. Is it also cheap at his part?

Anyways. I said he is a confused student having nothing insight of what exactly is happening around practically. He will know it very soon. Let him come to the field.

Regards,

Kamran.

Muhammad Amir · 05-09-2007, 10:45 PM

Due to exam pressure i have not much time to debate on this but soon inshallah i will show all of you the study made by accountancy age on ACCA compare to others and all professionals know well about the integrity of accountancy age.......
this is promise which i will full fill after 6th june after my 2.3(UK) InshaALLAH.... i also want prays of all of the esteem members specially of KamranACA sahib's.......for good exam days(InshaALLAH) and later after 6th june i will post here whole study made by accountancy age because due to windows curroption i had lost that file and Inshallah with ALLAH(S.W.T) Help i will once again foud it...

Don't forget me in you parys

Regards
Muhammad Amir

msc286 · 05-10-2007, 04:40 PM

Dear Kamran Sahib, Assalam-o-Alaikum,

I somehow got the impression from your above two posts as if you have taken my post as criticism directed upon you. I was actually referring the post of Mr. Amir

" Salute to KamranACA Sahib what a great self made study...I think this is very cheap from the person like you to do these type of activity i once again say that ICAP gurus must think about ethics subject in some where in module D or E......"

I had and still have my reservations on the use of the terms like "self made study" and "cheap" which prompted me to post my reply.

I keep you in high regard because of the sheer professionalism apparent in your posts.

My best regards,

Mahmood Chaudhry
ACCA, ACA

kamranACA · 05-10-2007, 05:29 PM

Dears,

My all prayers are with ambitious students. May God bless you all success in your exams and noble objectives.

Dear Amir, again you cant hide the inexperienced student of your personality. One has to do nothing with your accountancy age etc. When somebody in Pakistan is taking decisions for his career, he first of all has to see what would be available to him in Pakistan, after getting such qualification.

ACCA cant compete CA in Pakistan in foreseeable future. This is ground reality and has nothing to do with accountancy age or else. You cant deny this reality.

Yes, I feel that in other parts of wrold ACCA is below their own super qualifications just as the situation exists in Pakistan. If you dont agree, it makes no difference to me. Others may or may not accept your version. For me you need not to present what accounacy age says. For others you can do, it is ur prerogative.

Dear Mahmood Sahib,

This Mr. Amir is like our brother. His problem is only his immaturity. Otherwise he is a good energetic guy. He is still in stage two I think and he needs much exposure to understand the differences. Otherwise his expectations will cause greatest frustration to him when he will come to practical life. In Punjabi it is commonly known as "WAH PAEY JAANIYEY YA RAH PAEY JAANIYEY", you are from Islamabad and you can understand this phrase. May God be with him and fulfill his expectations.

I did not think that your those comments were for me. Still, the words of a professionally qualified man have importance and must be taken care of. Thats why I said I have no argument against your advice.

Regards,

Kamran.

Muhammad Amir · 05-11-2007, 04:31 PM

<blockquote id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Dear Mahmood Sahib,

This Mr. Amir is like our brother. His problem is only his immaturity. Otherwise he is a good energetic guy. He is still in stage two I think and he needs much exposure to understand the differences. Otherwise his expectations will cause greatest frustration to him when he will come to practical life. In Punjabi it is commonly known as "WAH PAEY JAANIYEY YA RAH PAEY JAANIYEY", you are from Islamabad and you can understand this phrase. May God be with him and fulfill his expectations.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Their is nothing Improfessional from me ok.........i know well about the use of those words that must be avoided at public forums.....
as you said that I am only stage 2 students there is nothing important for me that if one is ACA, FCA, ACCA, FCCA, or etc the thing that really matter is your skills, your experiance the depth of your stipulations, your strong crystal clear veiw point and your courage to talk with even more knowledgeable people thats why i am posting here on so much on different topics.....
In my view point there is nothing to do with if person is ACA,ACCA or others because you have to have a potiential to make your stipulations indepth and clear(but should also consists of reallity and in good faith for others)....thats why i didn't say anything regarding your post that ACCA is far behind ICAEW,ICAI,ICAS,AICPA(USA),or others....because i know that it was wholly self made study from you by the way from where you drove these information prove us the evidence then we might leave ACCAs Advocacy.......actually self made study is nothing to do with because those are only you point of views and one has no intrest in this but as far as AccountancyAGE or BIG4 articles are concerned i know lot of people belive in them rather then you because you only are a professional and they are professional makers ...... their integrity is much more better then you...you may be right infact you are right that in pakistan ACCA is behind ICAP there is no doubt but this dominancy will never exists in near future because people who proves themselves as kings they always remain KINGS whether there in ACA or ACCA....but they have to prove themselves as the king of their profession......and as per your thoughts these kings will always be from ICAP is not very much realistic.......

what ever Mr Mehmood say is right i have regards of whatever he said and i have regards of whatever you say and i have regards of whatever others say.....but my dear its our national behaviour to talk about simmulations not reallity there is far much distinction between reallity and SIMMULATIONS.....simmulations are always used for experiments...

but Mr Mehmood can you throw some light on what ever Mr KamranACA Sahib post and his self made study ..... i am not talking about pakistan but whatever he said for ACCA with contrast to ICAWE,ICAI,ICAS...its not very much good from his part....i know and infact people are well aware that ACCA has became worlds largest accountancy body just because people from honerable institutes like ICAWE ICAI ICAS are shifted to ACCA these are not my wordings these are wordings of AccountancyAGE and it's integrity is far more better then whole ICAP and so one member is very far much behind....

Conclusuion is that whatever you haven't seen so please don't talk about them unless you have a study of some honerable entities....

Because READERS ARE LEADERS SO READ FIRST AND THEN POST THOSE READINGS

and for all this is not a personal Laraei..........we all are brothers their might me some debate but never Laraei [D]

Regards
Muhammad Amir

Muhammad Amir · 05-11-2007, 04:44 PM

And for you Mr KamranACA bhai....i have no expectation to make more and more money....i have never set my objectives to make money...i Alhamdollillah have it when ever i need ALLAH always with me i have no need to bother about money it has never been my objective....

infact my expextation is to do more and more for my RELIGION for My PROFESSION.....and for promotion of Religion and Prfession there is nothing need like money......

I know lot of my friends and other students whose objectives are to make money and have big cars and other(Eyyashi ka saman)....but i never set these standards for me....infact my standards are very different from all of my friends and other people whom i know...

So you don't need to be bother about my expectations whatever its ACCA, CFA, CIA, CMA or others these are only worth to me as Secondry objectives these are not my primery Objectives my primery objective is much bigger then all of those i identified....so know it's also prove on you that i never have objectives like ACCA or others these only worth as steps to reach towards Primery objectives...

Now you might be cleared that i have no such expectations...

kamranACA · 05-11-2007, 06:35 PM

Dear Mr. Amir,

I quote your post where you said

..............i know well about the use of those words that must be avoided at public forums.....
as you said that I am only stage 2 students there is nothing important for me that if one is ACA, FCA, ACCA, FCCA, or etc the thing that really matter is your skills, your experiance the depth of your stipulations, your strong crystal clear veiw point and your courage to talk with even more knowledgeable people thats why i am posting here on so much on different topics.........

This is not only your problem. We third world people have so many such wrong/overestimated ideas about our ownselves which has always been proved the part of trash by the passage of time. We daily see the examples like Saddam Hussain who was also much crystal clear, experienced, skilled and bala bala but we all have seen his end. It was only his over estimation and nothing else. Iran at the moment is over-estimating itself and it would not fetch good results. This is by the way not Jehad. This happens daily with us. We always over estimate and this leads to disaster. We can praise some one else but we should not directly over estimate our ownselves.

We have lots of SANYAASIES about whom so many of people like you believe that they have much experience, skills and stipulations etc and they are much better than a qualified doctor. If this MBBS, FCPS, FRCS etc is nothing for an illiterate man then why there is a need of qualified doctors? Would any one's such vague thought will reduce the importance of a qualified doctor.? Never? If some one has such idea he is vague and fool. What a joke is this? You know such SANYAASIES are called DOCTOR QUACK in medical language. You can go to its meaning to find out what it means.

A stage two student would be a DOCTOR QUACK if he finds his-self more skilled, crystal clear, experienced, stipulated and what not and what not than an ACCA or ACA or CFA etc......One should get completely born before taking part in running competitions. One should not react on these words becoz reality is reality.

At the end of the day, you agreed that at the moment CA in Pakistan is better than ACCA. You anticipated that tables will be turned very soon. Since this is still to happen and GHAIB is only known to ALLAH then it would be wise to agree on the current situation that CA is better than ACCA at least in Pakistan. You have accepted it and now you cannot deny it.

I said, I have nothing to do with your journals etc. If some CA is getting ACCA qualification as well, it cannot lead to conclude that ACCA is taking over the CA very soon. What a joke is this. I have other Pakistani qualifications besides CA. So many other CAs also get such extra qualifications on account of various interests. Would it lead those other institutes to conclude that they are just going to be better than CA in very near future. Never.

You have other intents than making money. It is good for you. But muslims have been advised to search the livelihoods on the earth of ALLAH by all noble means. Yes they have been advised to fulfill all islamic requirements as well. It is good if you are not much inclined to making money. Becoz the best livelihood provider is ALLAH. One only has to make effort for it.

Still, if some one wants to make money for his family and dependents, wants to get better cars and facilities by keeping hisself within allowed boundries, it is not objectionable. GOSHA NASHEENEE is not liked in Sharia. One has to live in society and for that he has to earn and make his best efforts. This is Sunnah. This is the era of money and status. Without being economically empowered one cannot challenge the kuffaar. This is not the era of simple sword and horses wars. Now so much has been changed. Iraq and Afghan wars should open our eyes and we should now make a proper strategy. Technical and economical advancement by living in permitted boundries is the real religion now, if we really want to do something for Islam and muslims. Otherwise one has to be dependent and we all are dependent as a nation. We cannot live with sanctions on our trade and financial assistance. I have no doubts in it. If some one has, he should revisit his idealogy.

Be focussed to your studies. You are a student and you know nothing. I advise you to concentrate on your professional and islamic studies and become something before challenging various qualifications with a DOCTOR QUACK ATTITUDE.

Best regards,

Kamran.

kamranACA · 05-11-2007, 06:44 PM

Further, from expectations, I did not only mean earning/making money. If you feel your qualification much much better and waste all of your youth in proving it and at the end of day you find a job in some reputed organization at some number 15 position, then it would also be frustrating.

For a professional, frustration mainly comes from the duties assigned to him and importance given to him in a given official culture.

Regards,

Kamran.

nakaiun · 05-12-2007, 01:11 AM

salam
we should respect all accountancy qulifications in this forum ca of icap always try to degrade acca but reality is different i said in my previuos post that acca position is now improving in dawn advertisment where there is job for ca here also ca/acca multinational companies gvies good jobs to acca's and last not least if u get articlship from big 4 ur worth increase that's all i have to say
ALLAH HAFIZ

kamranACA · 05-12-2007, 07:13 PM

Dears,

No one starts degrading ACCA unless some confused man doing ACCA take a lead. Even then normally CAs dont reply the child like remarks of some ACCAs. You must be seeing that very nominal CAs reply these posts. I only reply such posts, when some one takes a lead to criticise ICAP without a valid reason. If some institute has a difficult criteria or whatever, then you should strive to work very hard for achieving your target. Otherwise, you have an option to change your objective. One should not criticise an institute if he finds it difficult to get through its exams due to whatever so called reasons.

I never initiated a post whereby declaring that one institute is better than the other whersas it has always been a reality that every CA or CPA institute is better than ACCA in its own country/jurisdiction. There are so many reasons for this.

I only reply the posts which unduely criticise ICAP. One should not express his GRAPES ARE SOUR like feelings by criticising the grapes.

This is all what makes me to reply such posts.

Otherwise, I have ful regard for ACCAs being good professionals.

You in your post said that if some one ACCA gets article from Big 4, it will increase the worth. U must not forget that big 4 is meant for CA firms and not for ACCA firms. CAs will always cause you to increase your worth if you join them.

Best regards,

Kamran.

Muhammad Amir · 05-12-2007, 09:10 PM

You are Right Mr KamranACA and i have never challenged your thoughts instead i always try to give my openion on certian things and i tryed to give my openion from my little(infact 0% of your)Experiance but although this experiance is little but i didn't regard that this worth nothing....
I also want to tell you one thing that lot of time i have seen you are very extravagently taken my views and exaggerate your advises for me..

Lot if times i was not such critcal on points but your subsequent posts make me angry to reply with anger....

I once again clear my views in those regards which are deeply discussed that CA is now a days domminant over ACCA...but this Domminancy will not be exist in near future...ICAPs policies waste lot of Golden period of time of lot of students...If ACCA is not above all other UK Chartered bodies It is not behind them...lot of ICAWE,ICAI,ICAS,and CIPFA started to shift to ACCA or CIMA this is reallity....in pakistan lot of students started to shift from ICAP to ACCA....although there is no question on the hard work and struggle of ICAP members but one should not need to understate other bodies...

Being student i accept their will be some vague statements made by me but i always try to talk with evidence however their are some times i talk about what i heared from others(which i shouldn't)and i need to overcome this however more than 90% of my statements were authentic and you can compare them with facts when it comes to comparision of courses or others because i always try to keep myself away from aspersion but some times due to human nature i might make vague statements but this is not the case of ever....

in my previous two posts you were absolutly taken wrong openion on my statements i was not making myself very different from others neither i was intend to throw mud on my honerable professionals like ACA,ACCA,FCA or FCCA they all are people who are great and i have respect for all professional i am just a student nothing more.....

Regarding word expectation i want to say that yes this word is having a potiential to absorb 10s of words.... but what i percieve i pointed that in my post and i once again say that earning money is not my objective but i didn't say that i have never need that....

But i highly believe in "QINAAT PASANDI" however i highly disregard KANJOOSI......

My goals are to make my MUSLIM UMMAH in great position to fight with Kuffars and to help all MUSLIM UMMAH in copeing with Kuffars....
I know that these my be look to you and others as overstatement but i once again say that these are my GOALS and i will INSHA-ALLAH try my best always to achieve them....

in previous post you also advise me to keep focus on my professional and Islamic studies
<blockquote id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Be focussed to your studies. You are a student and you know nothing. I advise you to concentrate on your professional and islamic studies and become something before challenging various qualifications with a DOCTOR QUACK ATTITUDE.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I thanks to you for these objectives provoking statements...i also want to tell you that i am not a student of Islamic Study of any Madesssah...but i believe that every muslim should be a "TALIBANS" of the Religious studies....And so i am "TALIB" of religious studies....

I always Regard your Advise as being most important for me and i once again thanks to you for your advises to me and i also expect from you to give them to me whenever i need them.....

I also have regarded of whatever you said in past i will also regard them in future...AND LAST I NEED PRAYS OF ALL OF YOU TO ACHIEVE MY OBJECTIVES..

Regards
Muhammad Amir

nakaiun · 05-13-2007, 01:39 AM

salam to all
mr kamran not know the realities acca get 3 years articleship from big 4 where u live man my relative has done his articlship and his friends also from kpmg which in in big 4 and second if somnoe not got articlship from big4 becoz of acca then he should do on basis of exmption after completion of acca but do not do from any where else

Muhammad Amir · 05-13-2007, 05:43 PM

<blockquote id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">salam to all
mr kamran not know the realities acca get 3 years articleship from big 4 where u live man my relative has done his articlship and his friends also from kpmg which in in big 4 and second if somnoe not got articlship from big4 becoz of acca then he should do on basis of exmption after completion of acca but do not do from any where else<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

You are very misleaded child my dear whether it's CA,ACCA,CIMA or others they only are qualifications which send you to interview rooms the potiential employers will ask you from where you get you articles...lot have changed people and potiential emplyers are looking for new talent to induct in their business...they have no time to discuss with every indivudual that from where they get their articles...i know one person who had done his articles from Hussain and Co. infact you have never heared this name any before.... and now a day the one whi did his articles from Hussain and Co. is in world's 4th big oil Refinery as a cheif Accountant and he is very young for such a post..............what make that oil refinery to induct him just he himself......now tell me one thing if you had done your aryicles from big4 also you are qualified ACCA or CA or others but when you enter in interview room you lose your confidence what happen to you then.....

My dear these all statements are outdated that you must have done articles from BIG4 lot have changed rigidity has gone.....people started realizing facts...

Although i strongly support that if any one complete his or her articles from Big4 but their are infact thousands of students tell me will all of them appointed in Big4....simply not so as per your views all others who didn't get articles from Big4 must leave ACCA or CA.......

Think those facts in broader canvas....world is so huge don't limit the boundries in front of you...

Also you didn't read the post properly of KamranACA he didn't say anywhere that ACCA didn't find trainee position in Big4 instead he said that Big4 are "Chartered Accountants Firms(CA Firms)" and not "Certified Chartered Accountants Firms (CCA Firms)" as he means to say that CA frims add value to ACCAs so it is already a fact as per his sayings that CA always add value to ACCA.........this was he meant

Although CAs can't add value to themselves how can they add value to ACCA an absured situation created.....

ACCAs add value to themselves and also de-value themselves infact more than 50% of ACCA students de-value themselves....

Mr Nakaiun you are if i am not wrong a CAT student and so i want to ask from you that why you so much keen in articles from Big4....the minimum requirement are as

AFF----------------->ACCA core passed atleast
KPMG---------------->ACCA part2 passed(till 2.6)
Sidat Hayder-------->ACCA part2 till paper 2.3 passed
Delloite------------>ACCA part2 till paper 2.3 passed

So their is lot of passage remaining do your best start struggle increase you professionalism approaches and bild up your confidence then no one can replel you from going to Big4 you will INSHA-ALLAH one day get articles from their but this requires sruggle and lot of hard work....and last but not the leaset do your best, Pray to ALLAH and leave results on ALLAH because ALLAH knows well about what should have done and what shouldn't.....and also remember me in your Prayes

Regards
Muhammad Amir

kamranACA · 05-13-2007, 08:13 PM

Dears,

I never said that ACCA cannot get articles in any big firm. I only meant to say that for such trainnings ACCA are dependent upon CAs. This is mainly becoz ACCA is new as compared to CAs and CAs are off course more established than ACCA. ACCA is just a qualification after which one has to get experience either from some Chartered Accountant/management consultant firm or from industry/banking institutions etc.

ACCAs can rarely find ACCA firms for getting exposure. Now if Mr. Amir or anybody else have doubts over addition of value by joining CA firms, I cannot change their minds.

All over the world, CAs are supposed to be the teachers/seniors (USTAAD) of ACCA and for that ACCAs must keep their regards.

I appreciate the religious interest of Mr. Amir. However, I never like Talibaanization in Islam. I strictly mean the environment found in Afghanistan soon before this USA attack.

This is my personal belief and I dont call anybody to join me. So no body should be affected.

Regards,

Kamran.