Free ACA for B.COM in 1960`s

khani · 10-11-2008, 11:12 PM

I have heard that in 1960`s ICAP was granting free or honourery CA to b.com qualified students. For example some Mr Hameed choudhry is there who got ACA on such basis. I want to ask is it true.?

kamranACA · 10-13-2008, 03:14 PM

Dear,

At various times various exemptions and recognitions are provided by such institutes. Before pin pointing the name of some well recognized icon we should assess our own position. You or I may not become Hameed Ch. during whole of our life time. We should adopt some other methodology to discuss these things. Do you just know who is he?

In fact ICAP was not legally existing before 1961's CA Ordinance. Your question is outrightly wrong. In initial days of Pakistan there was no such professional body in our country. There was a designation titled (probably) General Accountants {I dont exactly remember how they were designated but it was a qualification/designation} which was existing before ICAP. Whenever some institite or body is established, at the outset, it does not have its own qualified people. Do we have minds to accept this basic fact? Therefore, at that point of time, various professionals who were in fact working as such were given full or partial exemptions by ICAP. It was to lay down the foundation stone. At that time even ICEAW and Indian qualified people were also made the part of it.

So, it is an evolution process, and could only be understood if we are able to understand the "bey yaar-o-madadgaar" history of Pakistan in those initial days. Even then no "NATHOO PHATHOO" was given such exemption and the General Accounatants, most of which were practicing, were given such recognition after complete evaluation.

"Nathoo Phathoos" are still not given exemption, although it is painful for their majority. The word Nathoo Phathoo is from punjabi language and positively means "IRRELEVANT" or "INCAPCITATED" in some specific context.

Regards,

KAMRAN.

EnslavedSpirit · 10-13-2008, 10:36 PM

Brother Khani;

Please be decent with your posts, your language does depict your own personality, You may have difference of opinion with the points mentioned in above post, yet you should express your opinion in a way which is most suitable and gracefull, the ideas you don't agree with can be refuted in an elegant way too.

Please...This is a request...!

Regards,

kamranACA · 10-14-2008, 04:35 PM

Dears,

What can I say to Khani? He had been a younger brother for me since long and I received offers of being a guest at Mianwali. I certainly cannot abuse him in response. This would be disgrace of some good memories connected with him, although, like is likely to be replied by the like. I leave it to his own interior. Interior is the best judge. However, what I replied to his query is a fact.

I wonder why people don't find courage to face the answers of the question which they at their own request for. I also wonder if he finds himself a Nathoo Phathoo.

I never abuse any body who does not manage his tounge about my profession. I always say, one must look into his question before criticising the answer. The questions in their ownselves have the reasons of the answer. This is vital to be understood.

Any wrong wording used for me bears no effect. People do this even with their fathers. No wonders.

Regards,

KAMRAN.

kamranACA · 10-15-2008, 12:21 AM

Dears,

I, in my first post at this thread, mentioned the designation prior to CA as General Accountants. This designation was âRegistered Accountantsâ instead.

I today met a man who is ICAP's fellow member and was previously a Registered Accountant. He had been the advisor of Government at various levels and worked with certain ministries. Currently he is advisor of a multinational multibillion mining companies group.

Registered Accountants were duly qualified by passing two exams i.e. intermediate and final which were conducted by the Ministry of Commerce, Federal Government. The trainees were of two categories i.e. commerce gradates and other graduates. There were different exhaustive training requirements for each category of trainees, which were consisting of 4 to 8 years, dependent upon the nature of training and the graduation base. These exams were as tough as the ICAP exams are supposed to be. For understanding this we must place ourselves in 1960. Closed eyes objections cannot serve the purpose.

All the firms prior to establishment of ICAP were mainly working and reporting as Registered Accountants, the then charter-holder / license-holder designation. Even the firm like AFF, was issuing its documents by mentioning REGISTERED ACCOUNTANTS / CHARTERED ACCOUNTANTS as they were having professionals carrying both designations. The largest audit firm of that time Raheem Jan and Company was acting as REGISTERED ACCOUNTANTS although Mr. Raheem Jan was ICEAW qualified.

I have all the respect for all those who are senior to me in some capacity. Mr. Hameed Chaudry, who is a learned man and among the icons of the profession at Punjab and who has been serving a majority of stakeholders since the decades, also qualified Registered Accountant exam conducted by Ministry of Commerce and completed the due training with Raheem Jan and Company. I whenever met with him got affectionate response and personal attention for which I owe to him all my thanks and regards. I place on record that I am not from his firm.

This is important to note that except UK, in majority of the countries, the designation in place, during that tenure, was Registered Accountant. This is as per info given by the man I discussed above.

After the promulgation of CA Ordinance, 1961 and establishment of ICAP, majority of Registered Accountants were admitted to its membership due mainly to their qualification certified by the Federal Government and because they were the pillars of the profession/counted on fingers and the then charter-holders. The Ministry of Commerce stopped certifying as Registered Accountants after the establishment of ICAP.

No B.Com was ever given any recognition, although it might have not been strange thing when some one is laying down the foundation stone. However, the concept of not recognizing the Nathoo Phathoos has to prevail because it is sensible enough. One can check the history that this category was not even recognized at that initial time.

This details the back ground which our kids should know before uttering out un-wise stuff.

I would again say that majority of students is from that innocent class which is not knowing the facts. It's not their fault. It is because the others mis-guide them and portray the snaps in weird manner.

I hope the issue has been clarified.

Regards,

KAMRAN.

Goodman · 10-15-2008, 11:50 PM

Dear Kamran Sahib

I hope you are in the best of your health. You said once, "Friends can be trusted with lost messages/emails." My dear friend i have lost such an email and my mobile phone set as well, Can you entrust me with a copy of the email at your earliest. Need to discuss something.

khani · 10-16-2008, 01:17 AM

Kamran bhai Assalam o alaikum. I am in UK for lasr 11 12 months and this afetrnoon my younger brother called me that Bahi you have posted avery bad languaged Message on the forum, I have seen it by myself. Bhai jan I can tell you and others on this forum That I have not posted this thread and that abusing reply to you.You people can check my all previous contributions on this forum .I am an ACCA affiliate member and doing Articleship of ICAEW here,I am avery satisfied person with my life how can I abouse one from whom I am used to get inspiration even in PARDEES.Bhai jan men aap ki buhat Ezit kerta hoon . I can not abuse you or any body else,my paerst gave tought me to give respect to others so that i can get respect from others.I am not a very good computer manager,I think somebody has stolen my ID and is using for himself.Ye meri hi GHAFLAT ka nateja hai. is leye men aap se mafi mangta hoon.You are a great man i respect you and also love you for your efforts for us,the young ones.

EnslavedSpirit · 10-16-2008, 01:59 PM

<blockquote id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by khani
 Kamran bhai Assalam o alaikum. I am in UK for lasr 11 12 months and this afetrnoon my younger brother called me that Bahi you have posted avery bad languaged Message on the forum, I have seen it by myself. Bhai jan I can tell you and others on this forum That I have not posted this thread and that abusing reply to you.You people can check my all previous contributions on this forum .I am an ACCA affiliate member and doing Articleship of ICAEW here,I am avery satisfied person with my life how can I abouse one from whom I am used to get inspiration even in PARDEES.Bhai jan men aap ki buhat Ezit kerta hoon . I can not abuse you or any body else,my paerst gave tought me to give respect to others so that i can get respect from others.I am not a very good computer manager,I think somebody has stolen my ID and is using for himself.Ye meri hi GHAFLAT ka nateja hai. is leye men aap se mafi mangta hoon.You are a great man i respect you and also love you for your efforts for us,the young ones.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

[)][)]...i hope confusion 'll be removed now, thanks for your clarification Khani!

Pracs · 10-17-2008, 06:53 AM

<blockquote id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by khani
 Kamran bhai Assalam o alaikum. I am in UK for lasr 11 12 months and this afetrnoon my younger brother called me that Bahi you have posted avery bad languaged Message on the forum, I have seen it by myself. Bhai jan I can tell you and others on this forum That I have not posted this thread and that abusing reply to you.You people can check my all previous contributions on this forum .I am an ACCA affiliate member and doing Articleship of ICAEW here,I am avery satisfied person with my life how can I abouse one from whom I am used to get inspiration even in PARDEES.Bhai jan men aap ki buhat Ezit kerta hoon . I can not abuse you or any body else,my paerst gave tought me to give respect to others so that i can get respect from others.I am not a very good computer manager,I think somebody has stolen my ID and is using for himself.Ye meri hi GHAFLAT ka nateja hai. is leye men aap se mafi mangta hoon.You are a great man i respect you and also love you for your efforts for us,the young ones.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Khani, I hope you have changed your password, and informed the mods on this forum, this is serious stuff

kamranACA · 10-20-2008, 10:57 PM

Dear Khani,

I don't know why some one is doing such mean and disgraced acts. This is what these people are all about.

I appreciate the clarification you have posted.

Regards,

KAMRAN

kamranACA · 10-20-2008, 11:01 PM

Dear Goodman brother,

You are shortly receiving the desired info.

Regrets for the delay in checking your post.

Regards,

KAMRAN.

awaisaftab · 03-05-2009, 04:38 PM

we have to accept the reality that the person who played a vital role in the foundation of ICAP and ICMA in early years of Pakistan were M.Comers and B.Comers. Its reality that the membership of these institutes were offered to B.commers and M.Commers with open heart. But it was an era when Matriculation is considered a good qualification even under matric were serving on the high ranks in government and private organization.

Pakistan Tobacco Company is first multination company of Pakista (My father works here as Manager egal Affairs). In PTC many matriculates and even under matric were working on various seniour positins in different departments including accouns and finance till eighties.

Regards,

Awais

imran Hasnain · 03-05-2009, 05:39 PM

Dear friends,

Why your are wasting your time on that issues. If Mr. Hameed got a CA by doing exam or not. It is not our business.

We are responsible for our own acts and not for the acts of others.

Regards,

Imran

kamranACA · 03-06-2009, 06:02 PM

Awais,

Your information is incorrect as far as it relates to the designation of CA. How the things proceeded, I have explained it in one of the earlier posts at this thread.

I can understand that when foundation stone of a society was being laid down so much might have been ignored. However, there had always been a reason behind acknowledging any one by ICAP.

If you have a single instance of any CA who was given CA designation merely on the basis of B. Com or M. Com,, please quote it, it would be a good addition to the knowledge of the forum members.

If you don't have anything black and white then rest assured your conclusion is wrong.

However, I don't know such details about ICMAP. They might have done what you are mentioning.

Regards,

KAMRAN.

awaisaftab · 03-11-2009, 03:17 PM

Kamran

I had not said that any B.Commer or M.Commer was given ACA or ACMA degree by allowing exemptions in these precious institutes. Rather I am saying that many exemptions were allowed them to offer membership. It is only my knowledge.I think the person who has started this debate have some information about the criterea followed by ICAP and ICMA for giving membership of ICAP to B.Commers. I dont now about such policy of ICMAP but I can get information in this regard from any senior ACMA or FCMA.

Regards,
Awais