03-04-2008, 12:18 AM
Dear,
It has been interesting post from you. I already told you that nothing is a question of personal ego. Again 'but' will come. But some posts invite attention and require replies.
You are again standing on only the stance of study materials for ACCA's advocacy.
I already agreed that yes this could be an achievement for ACCA but this does not make it as a best available choice. You quoted examples (just for the sake of example) of Mr. Zaidee and Mr. Sidat. Did they study ACCA text to reach the level on which they are? Did Albert Einstein, Newton, Abdusalam and others like them used such study texts (in their fields)? I submitted to your kind self that to get more you have to put more. By large, the ones who lead are not the ones who only restrict theirsleves to study texts or notes or other restricted materials. Study materials can help some one on some area but making extensive reading could never be concluded as a vague idea. I told you that I inter-alia in my studies used CIMA books. Does CIMA or ACCA or else prohibit any one else to study its books?
You talk about globalization and also restrict the efforts of such institutes on idvidual basis. ACCA born much much after development of double entry accounting system and so many other professional developments. It has used all the work of others (u know ACCA did not propose any new accounting system other than double entry) to develop its own study texts. It's however not bad to use the work of others. Every one is doing the same. You, as you say, are a teacher and should be knowing this fact. It's good to make efforts for students 'but' studies should not be restrcited only to study texts. One should know that these study texts have ben derived from some source books. Is there any issue in going for them.
People are using the works of ancient writers in all areas. Research is always carried this way. You know ICAP also developed or got developed its study texts some 12 years back (may be more than it). Have you thrown an eye on them. There could be some deficiency in it but it would be removed with the passage of time. Still, ICAP officially recommends so many quality source books to be studied. It's not bad at all.
I don't know if news channels categorise the news and divide them among theirselves so that each news channel give different news for viewers like you so that you leave BBC and go on CNN for watching some other sort of news (materially speaking). In Pakistan their are now almost 10 (or more) news channel and I hardly see them giving materially different news. Still people watch these all channels. You case could be different. There could be special channels for special people.
The word 'extra' has been much rubbed by you. It's just an effort to deduce a wrong meaning. I could not understand while deducing the meaning this why way you forgot the term "extra-ordinary". Can you put 'extra' used here to a meaning of your choice. You say you are a teacher. I did not see a teacher deducing meanings this way. There could be so many examples where 'extra' instead of reducing the importance has increased it rather. The one who does not have any "extra-curricular" activities was not liked by our teachers. They called them book worms. There was a class-period during our college times that was probably called "tutorial period" where such "EXTRA-CURRICULAR" activities / discussions were carried out in the presence of teachers. I don't know how have you been teaching. There might be some different standards you have. Don't mis-use the things mentioned by others. This cannot enhance your ego. Rather, come up with good points please. The Hadees that "Even go to China for the sake of knowledge and education" shows something if we concentrate. There is a push to get extra-ordinary and "extra" knowledge and education and qualifications. There is no restriction. It was not said in Hadees that only get what is available in ARAB and then keep on practicing it. Pitty on this thought.
You say that from small firms you meant to point out where from the CAs are coming. You don't take into account my reply to this fact. I told you that CAs are coming in very very short quantum from such firms. I gave you some figures for which you mentioned
"As far as statistics and council members, elections etc are concerned leave it for the time being, I know many council members (present and ex) and partners of large firms (again present and retired)."
I don't argue about ur knowledge regarding council and partners. Also as per my view if you are not a partner in such a firm it would be a matter of preference or opportunities. This cannot undermine your worth. Still, CAs don't at large come from those very small firms who don't have qulaity work. I argue that quality work is not restricted to just big 4 firms.
As regards to any CA who 'may' plan (not certainly) he should know all rules and regulations of the particular country to which he is proceeding, I can only draw attention to 888 CAs already working aboad (you would be one of them) out of 4110 in total. This is approximately 22 % of total CAs produced by ICAP in over 60 years. I must say they are very much welcomed in Pakistan if they are not getting right what they expected before leaving Pakistan. If they are staying at other destinations they must be doing well. Yes, there could be some rare adverse examples but I am talking about large sample of the population. So, if any body would plan to do so, will be doing so keeping in view all factors as you feel that even students know everything in this era (I think there would be many who don't and this could be seen from the posts they mail here on this forum).
I cannot understand why you feel CAs from ICAEW don't get memberships of other institutes. I feel if they move to some other country they definitely do it. Don't you see so many ICAEW qualified CAs and ACCA qualified people who are members of ICAP? Same is the situation at other places. Check ICAEW and others' members working abroad and see it. ICAEW's membership is "almost" available to chartered accountants of Australia and many of them do get such membership. Find it out at Australia. I can tell you so many foreign CAs and other professionals who while settling down at USA get to do CPA.
CPA is also available in China and some other countries. Now I dont know whether or not it is under USA.
I already explained and again place on record that when I say people (in Pakistan particularly) go to ACCA due to failure in CA, I never categories those who did ACCA after CA or did CA after ACCA. "Extra" (additional, more, increasing) qualifications is not a bad idea. It could be bad in your opinion.
Now as far as submissions are concerned. You have not pressed any such button, becoz had you done this, the button might have given you some shock. I estimate you are not shocked. Either the button was very much safe or you did not touch it. Did you touch? Have it shocked?
This discussion is becoming again un-ending and without getting to a right conclusion since I don't agree what you say and you don't agree to what I say. Would it not be better to close down this topic?
If not, let me know.If you wish to press some button also let me know.
Regards,
KAMRAN.
It has been interesting post from you. I already told you that nothing is a question of personal ego. Again 'but' will come. But some posts invite attention and require replies.
You are again standing on only the stance of study materials for ACCA's advocacy.
I already agreed that yes this could be an achievement for ACCA but this does not make it as a best available choice. You quoted examples (just for the sake of example) of Mr. Zaidee and Mr. Sidat. Did they study ACCA text to reach the level on which they are? Did Albert Einstein, Newton, Abdusalam and others like them used such study texts (in their fields)? I submitted to your kind self that to get more you have to put more. By large, the ones who lead are not the ones who only restrict theirsleves to study texts or notes or other restricted materials. Study materials can help some one on some area but making extensive reading could never be concluded as a vague idea. I told you that I inter-alia in my studies used CIMA books. Does CIMA or ACCA or else prohibit any one else to study its books?
You talk about globalization and also restrict the efforts of such institutes on idvidual basis. ACCA born much much after development of double entry accounting system and so many other professional developments. It has used all the work of others (u know ACCA did not propose any new accounting system other than double entry) to develop its own study texts. It's however not bad to use the work of others. Every one is doing the same. You, as you say, are a teacher and should be knowing this fact. It's good to make efforts for students 'but' studies should not be restrcited only to study texts. One should know that these study texts have ben derived from some source books. Is there any issue in going for them.
People are using the works of ancient writers in all areas. Research is always carried this way. You know ICAP also developed or got developed its study texts some 12 years back (may be more than it). Have you thrown an eye on them. There could be some deficiency in it but it would be removed with the passage of time. Still, ICAP officially recommends so many quality source books to be studied. It's not bad at all.
I don't know if news channels categorise the news and divide them among theirselves so that each news channel give different news for viewers like you so that you leave BBC and go on CNN for watching some other sort of news (materially speaking). In Pakistan their are now almost 10 (or more) news channel and I hardly see them giving materially different news. Still people watch these all channels. You case could be different. There could be special channels for special people.
The word 'extra' has been much rubbed by you. It's just an effort to deduce a wrong meaning. I could not understand while deducing the meaning this why way you forgot the term "extra-ordinary". Can you put 'extra' used here to a meaning of your choice. You say you are a teacher. I did not see a teacher deducing meanings this way. There could be so many examples where 'extra' instead of reducing the importance has increased it rather. The one who does not have any "extra-curricular" activities was not liked by our teachers. They called them book worms. There was a class-period during our college times that was probably called "tutorial period" where such "EXTRA-CURRICULAR" activities / discussions were carried out in the presence of teachers. I don't know how have you been teaching. There might be some different standards you have. Don't mis-use the things mentioned by others. This cannot enhance your ego. Rather, come up with good points please. The Hadees that "Even go to China for the sake of knowledge and education" shows something if we concentrate. There is a push to get extra-ordinary and "extra" knowledge and education and qualifications. There is no restriction. It was not said in Hadees that only get what is available in ARAB and then keep on practicing it. Pitty on this thought.
You say that from small firms you meant to point out where from the CAs are coming. You don't take into account my reply to this fact. I told you that CAs are coming in very very short quantum from such firms. I gave you some figures for which you mentioned
"As far as statistics and council members, elections etc are concerned leave it for the time being, I know many council members (present and ex) and partners of large firms (again present and retired)."
I don't argue about ur knowledge regarding council and partners. Also as per my view if you are not a partner in such a firm it would be a matter of preference or opportunities. This cannot undermine your worth. Still, CAs don't at large come from those very small firms who don't have qulaity work. I argue that quality work is not restricted to just big 4 firms.
As regards to any CA who 'may' plan (not certainly) he should know all rules and regulations of the particular country to which he is proceeding, I can only draw attention to 888 CAs already working aboad (you would be one of them) out of 4110 in total. This is approximately 22 % of total CAs produced by ICAP in over 60 years. I must say they are very much welcomed in Pakistan if they are not getting right what they expected before leaving Pakistan. If they are staying at other destinations they must be doing well. Yes, there could be some rare adverse examples but I am talking about large sample of the population. So, if any body would plan to do so, will be doing so keeping in view all factors as you feel that even students know everything in this era (I think there would be many who don't and this could be seen from the posts they mail here on this forum).
I cannot understand why you feel CAs from ICAEW don't get memberships of other institutes. I feel if they move to some other country they definitely do it. Don't you see so many ICAEW qualified CAs and ACCA qualified people who are members of ICAP? Same is the situation at other places. Check ICAEW and others' members working abroad and see it. ICAEW's membership is "almost" available to chartered accountants of Australia and many of them do get such membership. Find it out at Australia. I can tell you so many foreign CAs and other professionals who while settling down at USA get to do CPA.
CPA is also available in China and some other countries. Now I dont know whether or not it is under USA.
I already explained and again place on record that when I say people (in Pakistan particularly) go to ACCA due to failure in CA, I never categories those who did ACCA after CA or did CA after ACCA. "Extra" (additional, more, increasing) qualifications is not a bad idea. It could be bad in your opinion.
Now as far as submissions are concerned. You have not pressed any such button, becoz had you done this, the button might have given you some shock. I estimate you are not shocked. Either the button was very much safe or you did not touch it. Did you touch? Have it shocked?
This discussion is becoming again un-ending and without getting to a right conclusion since I don't agree what you say and you don't agree to what I say. Would it not be better to close down this topic?
If not, let me know.If you wish to press some button also let me know.
Regards,
KAMRAN.
