icap has reduced the exemption of acca to c module

nakaiun · 01-02-2008, 02:07 PM

icap has reduced the exemption given to acca to module c is this right or wrong i want confirmation ?

Muhammad Amir · 01-03-2008, 06:18 AM

Dear Nakaiun you are worrying for no reason,

Even if ICAP offers no exemptions to ACCAs this will have no impact on ACCAs quality qualifieds...

I have lot of time said that there is no need for ACCAs to waste their energy regarding ICAP Policies, this world is so huge and we have several of other problems to solve...

Why don't you think to prove yourself as quality qualified, CA(ICAP) after ACCA in my view will be the worse step one can ever take to destroy his bright career...

If ICAP has realy reduced exemptions to Module 'C' in my view they have to provide resonable grounds for this step because ACCA has no match with this Module 'C/D' curriculum and i think i do not need to once again compare the curriculum of two bodies as i have already proved these facts in previous threads...

I also want to ask a question from very respectful Policy makers of ICAP that why you provide full exemptions to ICAEWs(only Law and Tax need to be cleared) and why ICAEW provide 12 out of 15 papers exemptions to ACCAs, If we compare this situation an ACCA need to clear 3 papers of ICAEW and 2 of ICAP, Dear respectful policy makers do you think ACCAs are fools or you think yourselves as ultra-genius??? in either case i would say you people and very innocent...

Regards,
Muhammad Amir

Goodman · 01-04-2008, 05:55 AM

Dear Amir

Though i would not comment on ICAP's policy and we have to trust their judgement. I would like to correct you on the following issue

[code] and why ICAEW provide 12 out of 15 papers exemptions to ACCAs[/code]

This has been changed. If you are an ACCA in good standing, you can apply for ACA ICAEW without taking any exams. I think you have to submit your CV and write an essay of 3000 words mentioning your accomplishments. A number of people in our office has gone through this procedure.

for detailed guidance, please icaew website.

Schuaeb · 01-06-2008, 06:37 AM

<blockquote id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Muhammad Amir
 Dear Nakaiun you are worrying for no reason,

Even if ICAP offers no exemptions to ACCAs this will have no impact on ACCAs quality qualifieds...

I have lot of time said that there is no need for ACCAs to waste their energy regarding ICAP Policies, this world is so huge and we have several of other problems to solve...

Why don't you think to prove yourself as quality qualified, CA(ICAP) after ACCA in my view will be the worse step one can ever take to destroy his bright career...

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Amir sb. it may be your personal opinion but many people start ACCA as an easier route for CA. They are prudent enough to know about the worth of both in Pakistani market.
<blockquote id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Muhammad Amir

If ICAP has realy reduced exemptions to Module 'C' in my view they have to provide resonable grounds for this step because ACCA has no match with this Module 'C/D' curriculum and i think i do not need to once again compare the curriculum of two bodies as i have already proved these facts in previous threads...
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
You really have proved things in previous threads, wow!! We must commend that. Amir sb wake up and get out of fantasy world.

No hard feelings, just kiddin. Stay happy dear ACCA

Schuaeb · 01-06-2008, 06:51 AM

@Naikun

No such thing I found on ICAP's website. You can write to ICAP and do share the information with us. As ICAEW has come to Pakistan I think ACCAs have to depend lesser on ICAP, as now they have easier choice of going for ICAEW.

Contrary to Amir's view, in my view, ACCA doesn't have reasonable wealth in Pakistani market. Those who intend to go abroad it may of course be a better choice

nakaiun · 01-06-2008, 02:59 PM

mr. amir and Schuaeb i justed wanted to have knowledge about it i have no future plans to join icap so to say that most of people doing acca becoz they want to join icap is wrong and c module exemtipn assumed that is happened it does not make any difference becoz acca enjoy the exemptions of others global qulifications like cpa cima and icaew

khani · 01-12-2008, 08:12 PM

There is nothing mentioned like this reduction on the website of ICAP.

khani · 01-12-2008, 09:22 PM

I do think that Mr Aamir has posed many good points.

kamranACA · 01-12-2008, 09:55 PM

Dears,

It's good to see comments of Amir once again. ACCA is internationally renowned qualification as it has globally located offices and students. Still, as I once before said that merely the higher number of students or higher number of offices in quantitative terms does not make a qualification prestigious.

However, as goodman pointed out, ACCA's recognition is increasing in the eyes of ICAEW. If we check the evolution process we will come to know that the major reason behind is that, many ACCAs of UK have also qualified ICAEW's CA by getting exemptions over the period. By getting ICAEW's membership some of them historically remained the members of various decision making committees of ICAEW and IFAC as well.

It was quite natural for them to create harmony between the two institutes over the period to map the gap between them and this has worked with the passage of time even the old school of thought members of ICAEW do not wish it to happen it at all. They emphasize more on the reasons of founding this institution.

One of such ICAEW member, working at a very renowned position in Pakistan, expressed his views personally to me whereby he said that, at its outset, ACCA was developed by those people who could not get through the hard and prestigious exams and qualification criteria of ICAEW.
{I think his views were focused on initial phase of ACCA's formalization}.

Notwithstanding with this, I (and every one else) simply by having an observation of the situation can deduce that who are those people doing ACCA or opting to do ACCA in Pakistan. If I make a break up then first of all come those who are from very elite families and cannot find their selves suitable for the extreme of hard working (also declared as Jabri Mushaqqat by some members) embedded in the extensive training, CA students receive from articles. This is the class who normally prefer to do MBA but in some cases also opt ACCA being an easy task compared to CA.

After these, there come the students who failed qualifying initial tests and exams of CA of ICAP and eventually migrated their concentrations to ACCA declaring it more suitable, workable and certification of an association of good policies. Good policies means soft corner in practical terms.

Then comes the category of those students who are not part of the above two categories. They are just feared of CA's toughness (so-called hard, out dated and stiff policies) and expected failure due to putting in casual efforts which is the common behavior of such students.

After this, there is the category which qualifies ACCA as an additional certification to CFA or ACA. I dont ever argue about this category.

So, if any ACCA dont mind, these are the categories of ACCA students doing ACCA in Pakistan (at least).

The guys who go abroad and do ACCA at UK, do so becoz it is easier to get stay by having admission in ACCA. Whereas, CA for a Pakistani student in UK is now "almost" impracticable. Further, they easily qualify it (ACCA} and get good jobs (at UK or gulf) as far as earning is concerned.

Now none of above relates to the rare cases, extra genius and successful persons and those who make ACCA a career by believing it to be the best field.

Hope this post will not disturb ACCAs since it snaps out the real picture.

Regards,

Kamran.

Muhammad Amir · 01-14-2008, 04:55 AM

First of all i want to clarify my point of view that ICAP members are the poeple which made the worth of pakistani accountants very bright in UK and in middle east although they do not need my praise but i have to talk about reality, secondly the tough criteria of ICAP also made it worthful in the world of accountancy i am talking about the RGHRA of audit firm plus 4 papers of module E and F each without any break, thirdly this is the hard work of their members which made them reknowned accountancy body, despite of all these facts some of their policies are still out of my apprehension can you people tell me the match of module 'C' or 'D' with ACCA, will it not be absurd for an ACCA who has done Advanced Audit and Assurance to retake module D's Audit, will it not be absurd for an ACCA who has passed Advanced Financial Management to attempt Module D's Cost Accounting paper, will it not be absurd for an ACCA who has passed P2(Corporate Reporting) to attempt Financial Accounting paper...

Regards,

Muhammad Amir

Schuaeb · 01-16-2008, 10:33 PM

Lot of such absurdities are also present Amir for CA inters who wish to start ACCA. Exemptions are just a joke and I will call it going for a graduation after having done masters.

Kamran sb I guess you don't love peace and planning for another battle reffering to your comments about Jabri Mushakat and Stiff Policies. Just kiddin

kamranACA · 01-31-2008, 06:49 PM

Dear Shoaib,

I don't want to call into the forum's peace any sort of battle. I just referred the words "Jabri Mushaqat" and "Stiff Policies" and did not commented upon the health of these words at least in this post.

You are right in saying that exemptions are a joke in so many cases and in fact show the biased views of those who are decision makers on either side. None wants to lose and this is the cause of every thing.

I however ask Mr. Amir that why he (and other ACCA friends) are so anxious about exemptions from ICAP. As they claim ACCA to be all inclusive and self reliant (I also agree to it as far as syllabus is concerned, and not the exams criteria of ACCA) qualification, then why every ACCA is worried about exemptions from ICAP? )

Have you people seen so many ICAP students showing similar worries for exemptions of ACCA?

And honestly speaking, if you guys are so much worried for ICAP's CA then why you are doing ACCA?

These are simply some questions and not an atempt to start a battle 9in words of Shoaib).

It would be good if you apprise the forum members Mr. Amir.

Best regards,

Kamran.

Astute Accountant · 02-01-2008, 10:59 PM

<blockquote id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by kamranACA
 
As they claim ACCA to be all inclusive and self reliant (I also agree to it as far as syllabus is concerned, and not the exams criteria of ACCA) qualification, then why every ACCA is worried about exemptions from ICAP? )

Have you people seen so many ICAP students showing similar worries for exemptions of ACCA?

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Good question to ponder over.....

Yet another session of flooding to follow up!!!

---------------------------------------------
Literally illiterate[8)]

Muhammad Amir · 02-02-2008, 06:10 AM

Mr KamranACA has raised very important point here,

<blockquote id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">(I also agree to it as far as syllabus is concerned, and not the exams criteria of ACCA) <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

ACCA has no need to take your concerns or directions regarding exams criteria they are already having very experianced and knowledgable people in their exam panel and because of their experiance IFAC recognises them more than ICAP(even after knowing the fact that this is an association which is not the primary chartered body of any country)

he further asks

<blockquote id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Have you people seen so many ICAP students showing similar worries for exemptions of ACCA?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

let i explain this, have you seen this type of greatness from ICAP which has been shown by ACCA to other professional bodies, ACCA recongnizes partly qualified CA students i.e. ACCA provides part 1(knowledge module) exemptions plus one paper exemption from part 2(i.e. Skills Module) to CA inter but on the other hand ICAP does not recoznise partly qualified ACCA students for some unknown reasons.

this is another greatness of ACCA that they provide 11 out of 14 exemptions to ICAP members which is almost 78.6% of its qualification on the other hand ICAP provides only 12 out of 21 exemptions which is only 57% of its qualification.

<blockquote id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">And honestly speaking, if you guys are so much worried for ICAP's CA then why you are doing ACCA?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

those who are worried are not unfortunately taking part in this debate, and if you are worried on my worries then i have to say that CA has never been my destination and audit practice license was not the only goal in my life, although i will start my career from audit firm but this does not mean that i am concerned with ICAP exemptions.

Regards,

Muhammad Amir

kamranACA · 02-02-2008, 06:38 PM

Dear Amir,

Ghussa kar gaey ho yaar!!!

I quote ur worries hereunder

QUOTE

can you people tell me the match of module 'C' or 'D' with ACCA, will it not be absurd for an ACCA who has done Advanced Audit and Assurance to retake module D's Audit, will it not be absurd for an ACCA who has passed Advanced Financial Management to attempt Module D's Cost Accounting paper, will it not be absurd for an ACCA who has passed P2(Corporate Reporting) to attempt Financial Accounting paper...

UNQUOTE

I dont know why a totally un-worried person is so worried about absured things. Why he so anxiously counts on exemptions, why he so precisely keeps record of percentages, papers and else concerning the exemptions from ICAP. Wonders!!!

As far as my view about ACCA are concerned, these are not going to IFAC or else. These are not professional opinions. These are my personal views and are being discussed on forum. Don't feel pain my friend. Reality has not to change.

I said biases always exist on both sides and every one wants to remain superior. This is a general attitude followed by the concept of "survival of the fittest".

So dears strive to remain the fittest and come up with handful of exposure and knoweldge. One day might the situation reverse and this ACCA may engulf all the professions. Now what is wrong in predicting the things this way. )

And more simply if you and your ACCAs dont have any worries and problems and audit is not ur destination then why you are taking stress. Try to prove ur worth in upcoming days. God will help you Inshallah. Cheers!!!

Another concept is too much rubbed here on this forum. ACCAs are business advisors/planners rather than simply the accountants. Mashallah. On the same time one friend has pointed out that ACCA becomes ACCA only when he has undergone the training and an affiliate is not ACCA as such. I feel amused while reading such stuff. On one hand it is not even agreed that affiliate who lacks the training is ACCA and on the other hand it is claimed that ACCA on its own is business advisor/planner. [means no role training plays]. And if training has to do everything then what the magic ACCA has done? The subjects which students learn during ACCA? I dont think these are much different than other streams. So this delima is not resolved that what makes ACCA a business advisor and not simply the acountant.

Lets take Pakistan's example (we can go beyond if required). What businesses ACCAs know in depth. Can a non-practising (becoz practice in my view is the essense) ACCA elaborate me his knowledge on following sectors (most important, in Pakistan)

- financial (everything relating to it)
- water and power
- oil and gas
- textile
- steel
- sugar
- fertilizer
- glass
- leather / tanneries
- traveling / tourism / transportation
- hoteling
- food
- construction and engineering etc

Do the ACCA's learn (in ACCA) about sector specific processes, technicalities, production methodologies formulae and rescipies, available synergies, restructurings in given scenarios, product specifications, sector specific bottlenecks and techniques to reduce cost, curtailment of inefficiencies in specific machineries and processes, curtailment of breakdowns and stoppages in manufacturing sector and analysis of related options, H.R. specific issues in the light of local labour and H.R. laws and international certification requirements, sector specific pricing methodologies, costing tools in each industry, recapitalization issues in financial sector (current hot issue of First Women Bank), complex corporate and legal issues which no body learns in syllabus, import / export issues regulations and procedures of getting various export based or import based financings and many more like this....... I wonder if ACCA's simply learn it while they study their texts.

If not, and everything has to be learned by coming into practice and job, then in my view it is not a miracle of ACCA's texts.

This is the essense why I advocate CA and its so-called "RAGRA" which literally makes its students the business advisors.

So dears dont leave the arrows in the air towards the sky and talk about realities.

I am always here to debate on any thing if you people like me to do so. However, knowledge is not only my property. I reiterate that exposure comes with work and extreme hard work. Every one has to learn life long and this is never ending process. I again say this is the essense which normally (i dont talk about rare genius people like Goodman) is lacked in ACCAs, at least in Pakistan.

Best regards,

Kamran.