ICAP humiliating itself

[Pracs]

My Dear Khalid, as always, you are turning on personal and I am sorry to see you have a very closed mind, (some thing you accuse Pakistani ACAs of)not a very positive thing.

Now, just to straighten out the facts here (and this might offend you, as you get offended so often). I was an ICAP registered trainee and went through the whole process of passing all Foundation exams,(after my B.com, simply coz the BAC/PFC scheme sort of straddled during my B.com) went in for articles and finding myself with some time on hand managed to pass 14 ACCA papers by which time I could also sit for my ICAP Final papers. So buddy this is what it is. Having said that even if I had started over with ACCA and given got the opportunity would have gone for ICAP, I don't see that as 'a faiures' route because my plan was to work overseas, so ACCA would have been useful. Kamran has his opinions and I respect him for that,as I would respect you. Your pin point on this was though in bad taste.

I came around to go for ACCA only after they had re vamped and believe me ACCA Pulled off after that by going International, investing in R&D and attracting the right people both at home and abroad. The first time I heard about ACCA was in the early 90s, just having done my high school but did not consider it. Despite the fact that I had the option of starting with a Big4 in Dubai (this is where I was based then). Reason, because ACCA at that point in time was considered a 'part qualified accountant'. ACCA reputation and standing changed after a major restructure in the late 90s.

Khalid, perhaps you are talking about things you don't know about. Although ICAP students enter at Inter level these days, most people also sit for their B.com exams end of their two years, infact most of the RAETs (I am sure what these are) have programmes where they facilitate you to sit for B.com exams, moreover (if my information is not stale) AIOU used to give a BBA if ICAP foundation passed students pass their Islamic studies and Pakistan studies papers. (I am not sure if this is now revoked or still in place).Read my post again, I said ACCAs in the UK usually come after A levels.

My support for ICAP is not just because I am a member but because it deserves the place it has, it is an A class institute in Pakistan of world standards. I personally went the ICAP way and did not pursue a LUMS MBA, simply because I believed that ICAP would provide me better prospects as a finance professional.Being Pakistani, makes me proud of ICAP or the more. There is no comparison between ICAP and ICAI (India),never was never will be. The reason for them getting a better deal is not because of ICAI but because of India, simply because India is the favourite with the West these days, nothing more to it.

The 13 CAs you keep on harbouring about in practice outside of Pakistan are Pakistani CAs (who are partners)who practice in the Gulf as ICAP firms (training ICAP students and abiding by all bye-laws), please note that accountancy firms in the Gulf do not need to be associated with an Institute and only are to be registered with the relevant Ministry. So apart from this other members who are working in practice (say Big4s etc. do not fall in that category). Kamran, please correct me if I am wrong. Apart from this all other CAs working in accountancy firms are not classified as 'members in practice'. This your reality buddy.

[Pracs]

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, san" id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by mroneflower</i>
<br />Dear Rabia

I told you please do not worry about these ICAP as they are hypocrites.

Just click on the link below. I started this thraed in 2006 this thread has only 9 small post. Go throuh them as it will only take 5 minutes and then you will know mental level of ICAP people. Please read what Prace said on this post. Also read last post too.

http//www.accountancy.com.pk/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=3776

I told in 2006 that ICAEW is willing to authorise firms in Pakistan. Read post of link I provided ad see what ICAP people said. Just wait for couple of yrs and see the game. I am saying it again and again ACCA will not loose anything in Pakistan and this MOU will work in ACCA favour and this thing has alraedy started i.e CAT from ACCA is getting exemption from ICAEW 5 papers. I was not expecting it so soon.

Now why ICAP singed this degarding MOU with ICAEW when ICAP was not willing to do so in past. Its simple ACCA is capturing ICAP market in Pakistan, therefore to show people that ICAP is still in market ICAP singed this MOU with ICAEW. Remember ICAP is not getting anymthing more than that from ICAEW. I hope you can see ICAP logic behind this MOU.

As far as shoaibs explnantion of UK ACCA qualified and Pakistan ACCA qualified is concerned in totally wrong as I do have link to kamran post where he clearly stated Pakistani ACCA Uk qualified and Pakistani local qualified.

Anyway I reported lies of SKANS to ACCA and alraedy emailed ICAEW Cheif Exective about the term ACCA UK Qualified and ACCA Pakistan Qualified and its looks ICAEW is worried that in this way their brand will be diluted in pakistan because of ICAP people stupid terms.

Give me some time, i will provide link to Kamran some stupid posts. I am going out of London for a week, if I could not post link to Kamran post (because of shortage of time) then I will post it on my return.

You can see Kamran mental level by saying Country like GHANA. If they want to know standing of Pakistan in the world then plz do some reseach. We as a Pakistani nation are suffering only because we are in dinal mode and ICAP is follwoing same plocies. I hope People will not start saying after reading my this post that I am Pakistan enemy.

Do not worry about these hypocrites.

Khalid
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Khalid, are you stooping to a level of misrepresentation, here is what I said

"<i><b>Mroneflower,

These kind of rumours have been around for quite some time, I remember hearing the 'ICAEW is coming...' through most of my articles time as well. I am sure until ICAP can help it they will stay away otherwise ICAP will just go into remission like the Malaysian or Singaporian institutes who are there just to issue practicing licenses and nothing more. I for one would like to see ICAP very much there and improve."</i></b>

How is this contrary to any thing I have said on this thread ?

[ali_boy9]

yar jo bhi ha we should not degrade ICAP to such extent... after all it's our countries ACA. and if it's notihng in few peoples eye then even for the sake of being pakistani and being a patriot we should respect it. Maam RABIA i hope you are not going to spend the whole of your life in UAE.. KABI TO PAKISTAN BI ANA HI PARAY GA. so please keep so respect for ICAP. ATLEAST WE DONT RELY ON FOREIGNERS FOR MAKING POLICIES( NOT THE FOREIGN POLICIES ) WE HAVE OUR OWN INSTITUTE AND WE SHOULD BE PROUD OF IT.
AND IF ICAP LACKS ANYTHING THEN WE ALL SHOULD MAKE IT COMPETITENT.
WE CAN MAKE IT WORLD'S MOST DEMANDING PROFESSIONAL BODY!! ONLY IF OUR OWN PAKISTANI STUDENTS DOING ACCA, CIMA, ICAEW ICAI (IRELAND ) AND ICAS SIMPLY DO ICAP THAN WE CAN MAKE A DIFFERENCE.
AND AFTER ALL ICAP IS NOT INFERIOR THAN THE OTHER ONES.
AND BESIDES THERE NO USE OF TRYING TO INCREASE THE NUBMER OF VIEWS AND REPLIES TO THE TOPIC BY STARTING A NEW COMPARSION OF CAT VS ICAP as Mr. KHALID mentioned in the above posts..

BEST REGARDS.

ALI.

[mroneflower]

Dear Brother Prace (Sorry I kept on writing Kamran in my all post that is why its a typing error)

I never said your statements conlict with others. Have I said this?. What I wanted to say that ICAEW had been interesting in Pakistan since 2004 (My idea) and it was ICAP which was not allowing ICAEW to enter in Pakistani market because of the fear that ICAEW will take over ICAP and that is what I have been saying in this particular thread. Moreover I said its ACCA which forced ICAP to allow ICAEW. Got my point. I am still saying this MOU will work in ACCA favour in Pakistan as if ICAP wanted to retain pakistani market then ICAP should first not let ACCA to introdeced itself in Pakistan 1995. If ICAP did it then ICAP should not give large number of exemptions to ACCA. If ICAP did give exemption to ACCA then it should not reduce ACCA exemption. Now game is out of ICAP control. But the main problem is ICAP still not working in right direction. Just a negative propaganda against anyone will not heLp ICAP. I know ICAP people will not understand, but you might get my point.

I seriouly think ICAP cannot do anything now, and there will be stage wHEN legal backing will not help ICAP like what is happening in Malaysian or Singaporian. Last post of the link I provided said if ICAEW will enter in Pakistani market then just ingore it. I do not think its right policy. Got my point dear.

I never used word failure for anyone its Kamran and in my above post I said in Kamran terms Prace is failure. I know ACCA history very well and I am proud of it. I know when ACCA was granted royal Charter and I also know when privy council allowed ACCA members to call themselves chartered accountant. Its not point when ACCA send money on R&D, the main point is ICAP has not sepend anything R&D yet. Kamran called about GHANA. Is ICAP recognised GHANA.

You said <font color="red">The 13 CAs you keep on harbouring about in practice outside of Pakistan are Pakistani CAs (who are partners)who practice in the Gulf as ICAP firms (training ICAP students and abiding by all bye-laws), please note that accountancy firms in the Gulf do not need to be associated with an Institute and only are to be registered with the relevant Ministry.</font id="red">

may I conclude from this ICAP people who are partners in firms aborad are only based un UAE where there is no local accountancy bodies and no other country. May be ICAP people cannot find jobs in UAE bause they cannot compete in open market that is why they established firms in UAE which is easy as comapred to finding jobs. And they are only 13 in number. Cheer Brother, do not take me wrong.

ICAI(india) is in better position than ICAP its ground reality. firts u need to accept reality, then you can tackle it. here ICAP people are not willing to accept reality.

Y ICAEW is so polite with ACCA these days. Obviously they are seeing ahead of 10 to 15 yrs. But If i mentioned this thing here ICAP people will not accept it as they cannot predict it, so leave it.

You said ACCA UK members are not graduate and ICAP almost members are graduate. Let analyses this statement.

ICAP student start ACA from ICAP after Inter and while doing ACA from ICAP do 2 yrs graduation. I accept this claim. I am accepting your claim as I do not trust Kamran.

Now in Pakistan, I suppose student join ACCA after Inter (so starting education of both are same). But ACCA inter student do not start ACCA straight away they first do CAT which is much better than two yrs B.com. After passing CAT and passing ACCA part 2 they complete B.Sc honours degree from oxford Brookes University (39 in Ranking in UK). This B.Sc is equivalent and infact it is itself 3 yrs bachelors degree which is recognised all over the world. So ACCA members hold CAT (which is better than 2 yrs B.com from Pakistani University and not recognised anywhere because of duration of 2 yrs) plus ACCA members hold 3 yrs internationally recognised bachelors degree from UK university.

Outside Pakistan students start ACCA straight away after A-Levels which is itself better than Pakistani Inter. Plus these students also completing International recognised bachelors degree from Oxford Brookes University.

Now you decide ACCA members are international level graduate or ICAP. I leave it to you to decide.

Depsite this I am not in favour of starting ACCA or Ca from ICAP after Inter.

Khalid

[mroneflower]

Dear ali_boy9

I do not agree with you that we should always protect ICAP whatever it does. Its wrong strategy. And no one can help the organisation which do not reply. I do not want to say anything else.

Things are already gone out of ICAP control. If some people are not accepting it I cannot say anything. If I say something against ICAP it does not means I am agaisnt Pakistan.

You said <font color="red">TLEAST WE DONT RELY ON FOREIGNERS FOR MAKING POLICIES( NOT THE FOREIGN POLICIES ) WE HAVE OUR OWN INSTITUTE AND WE SHOULD BE PROUD OF IT</font id="red">

There is story y ICAP reduce its training from 5 to 3 yrs. Have you ever tried to know. If you would have then you would not be saying ICAP does not depend of foreigners in policy making.

Khalid

[mroneflower]

so you ICAP people will never accept reality which is the bottom line. And if you think Singapore, Malaysian, Canada are not important then what I could do for u. As far as Ghana is concerned ICAP is not even recognized there. People can see his mental level who think Ghana as a country should not be mentioned.

As far as Brand of the yr award is concerned, ACCA did not invite Pakistani Prime Minister to ACCA award. It looks you are saying ACCA gave award to itself. This award is given to ACCA by Pakistani Government. Even if I accept your point that ACCA invited Prime Minister then y prime minister accepted it, cause ACCA is highly respected in Pakistan. If you do not accept Pakistani Govt then only ALLAH helps you.

And obviously ICAP people like Sadaf who are going qualifications after qualifications shows they are not satisfied with ICAP. Keep it up Sadaf and plz inform all of us when you will be fully satisfied with your qualifications. Sadaf is proud because ICAP is lower in quality than ICAI(India).

Sadaf by the way Uk graduation is of 16 yrs and Pakistani education of 16 yrs is equals to UK graduation which means your claim that no other Pakistani qualification is recognized in UK is wrong. Actually ACA from ICAP is the only pakistani qualification which is not recognized abroad anywhere.

Anyway CAT are exempted from ICAEW five papers with 3 yrs of training. ICAP members are exempted from ICAEW 11 papers with 2 yrs training. I am not comparing CAT with ICAP but still CAT finds job in Pakistan. What are the factors behind MOU of this kind, can you kindly explain only factor is that ICAP is not comparable to international ACAs where ACCA is.

Kamran agreed with Shoaib definition of UK ACCA Qualified and Pakistani ACCA qualified. Here is the contradiction in Kamran statements

Click on link below and read post number 29

http//www.accountancy.com.pk/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=6122

Kamran said <font color="red">First of all let me tell what I mean by saying Pakistani ACCAs. This means ACCAs who did ACCA while living in Pakistan and utilizing Pakistani facilities and then, after qualifying going abroad to find jobs. This does not include Pakistanies who go abroad, get admission and become well versed with that environment and find opportunities. In fact I never particularly discuss this category in any of my post.</font id="red">

He further said in the same post <font color="red">The guys who get articles in UK either for CA or ACCA are luckiest and in most of the cases have very strong backgrounds. No body can negate this fact.</font id="red">

It means he is saying Pakistani ACCA UK qualified and Pakistani ACCA Local qualified, Rubbish.

In the same post he further said <font color="red">In CANADA, CGA is a prestigious qualification. ACCA cannot have comparison with it in CANADA so this example does not suit at all.</font id="red">

But when he was told that ACCA is fully recognized by CGA Canada he changed his statement on the same thread in post number 33 and said <font color="red">CGA is an accepted local qualification of CANADA but still it is preferred after CA of CANADA.</font id="red">

Remember is post number 29 he said CGA Canada is <b>prestigious</b> qualification then after knowing about ACCA and CGA Canada MRA he sudden taken U-turn. He also said in another post which I have mentioned later in this post that ACCA is well behind CGA Canada.

In same post i.e number 33 he said <font color="red">You see Pakistani ACCAs always measure their importance in terms of exemptions available to them</font id="red">.

Means he I again saying Pakistani ACCA means non-Pakistani ACCA as well. Rubbish

Some of Kamran more Blunders.

Click on link below
http//www.accountancy.com.pk/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=4840

read post number 17, It said <font color="red">In some areas I agree with the statement of wandering star. ICAP has monopoly in Pakistan being the local charter.</font id="red">

So he accepted ICAP has monopolistic policies.

In the same post (17) in point 4 he said <font color="red">Since ACCA is simply an association and not a major charterholder of any country like CAs and normally operates through a company incorporated for such purpose (in Pakistan under section 42 of CO84), it does not compete the local charterholder anywhere in the world</font id="red">

I have already answered this. As far as word Chartered is concerned it does not belongs to ICAP, ICAP just stole it.

In point 4 of same post he further said <font color="red">mean check it in Pakistan, India, China, Canada, USA, Australia, Malaysia, Hong kong and even in UK where it(ACCA) got some sort of charter I think.</font id="red">

So he claimed ACCA is not even Chartered in UK. ACCA is already recognized in most of the countries he mentioned means China, Canada, Australia, Malaysia. In Hong Kong ACCA operated under joint scheme for almost more than 30 yrs. Joint scheme is not available now in Hong Kong. In china ACCA has strategic alliance with CPA.


Lick on link below

http//www.accountancy.com.pk/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=5432

Read post number 9 where he said <font color="red">I mention that I dont regard CIMAs or CMAs or ACCAs as chartered accountants.</font id="red">

I have already explained that ACCA are Chartered Accountant. CIMA is also chartered body. Actually word Chartered does not belong to Pakistan and ICAP has nothing to do with this word. ICAP stole this word.

On the following link

http//www.accountancy.com.pk/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=5432

In post number 31 he said

<font color="red">In canada ACCA is much behind CA and CGA. It cannot compete both of them. There is a difficulty to find out jobs for ACCA</font id="red">.

ACCA is fully recognized in Canada as ACCA has MRA in place with CGA Canada and there ACCA can perform audit of plc. Do i need to exaplin what is meant by plc for ICAP people.

In same post he further said <font color="red">in Sudia Arabia CA from UK, CPA from USA and CA from Pakistan/India are preferred. Jobs are also given to ACCAs but in rare cases they are occupying top seats.</font id="red">

He is saying in Sudia Arabia ICAP is preferred over ACCA, Again Rubblish.

He went on saying in the same post that <font color="red">in UAE and Gulf CA from UK, CPA from USA, CA from Pakistan and India are preferred.</font id="red">

Its again rubbish that ICAP is preferred over ACCA in UAE. Actually its opposite.

In same post he said <font color="red">in India There is a big number of indian CAs in india who dont even find jobs in their country and accept meager salaries internationally. ACCA also compete them but proportion of jobs and status of their jobs is nominal.</font id="red">

Time has proven ICAI(India) has stronger voice than ICAP. Moreover in India there are only 300 ACCA members.

In post number 32 of following link

http//www.accountancy.com.pk/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=5961

Kamran said <font color="red">You talk about globalization and also restrict the efforts of such institutes on idvidual basis. ACCA born much much after development of double entry accounting system and so many other professional developments. It has used all the work of others (u know ACCA did not propose any new accounting system other than double entry) to develop its own study texts.</font id="red">

The oldest CA institute of Chartered Accountant of Scoltand which is 150 yrs old born much much after development of double entry system.

First he is said ACCA born much much after development of double entry accounting system and so many other professional developments then he said u know ACCA did not propose any new accounting system other than double entry.

Has this man gone mad. In any case ACCA is much older than ICAP. If he does not history of double entry I am more than happy to educate him. CRAP Man.

In the same post he said <font color="red">CPA is also available in China and some other countries. Now I dont know whether or not it is under USA</font id="red">.

It looks he think all CPAs of the world are connected to each other in the same way he think all ACAs of the world are connected to each others including ICAP. People can see his caliber who judge something by name.

If you clink on following link and read post number 22

http//www.accountancy.com.pk/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=5341

<font color="red">"lets think if I being an ACCA(Member) go to an employer who has a package of 100,000 for this vacancy plus a CULTUS.....And i speak their core urdu....and when he asked me that what is this ACCA...i tell him that It is world's fastest and largest growing accountancy body situated in UK</font id="red">"

I do not know what kind of rubbish example this man is giving and misleading young students.

People can see Kamran posts are based on assumptions. Everyone knows about ACCA and what is meant by It is <b>WORLD’s</b> fastest and largest growing accountancy body situated in <b>UK</b>"

I can keep on pointing his rubbish posts. Now people would have an idea he and ICAP does not know anything. They are totally rubbish.

So all ACCA students and members including Rabia should not worry about these hypocrites.

I do not think there will be need to reply to this CRAP Man posts. Rubbish.

I am not going to point things out from Sadaf as she bussy in collecting qualifications, carry on. As far as Shoaib I think he does not know what he is saying.

This is the caliber of ICAP people that is why I say ACA from ICAP should be compared with CAT.

Anyway I will be out of London for a week.

Khalid

[rabia-k]

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, san" id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by ali_boy9</i>
<br />yar jo bhi ha we should not degrade ICAP to such extent... after all it's our countries ACA. and if it's notihng in few peoples eye then even for the sake of being pakistani and being a patriot we should respect it. Maam RABIA i hope you are not going to spend the whole of your life in UAE.. KABI TO PAKISTAN BI ANA HI PARAY GA. so please keep so respect for ICAP. ATLEAST WE DONT RELY ON FOREIGNERS FOR MAKING POLICIES( NOT THE FOREIGN POLICIES ) WE HAVE OUR OWN INSTITUTE AND WE SHOULD BE PROUD OF IT.
AND IF ICAP LACKS ANYTHING THEN WE ALL SHOULD MAKE IT COMPETITENT.
WE CAN MAKE IT WORLD'S MOST DEMANDING PROFESSIONAL BODY!! ONLY IF OUR OWN PAKISTANI STUDENTS DOING ACCA, CIMA, ICAEW ICAI (IRELAND ) AND ICAS SIMPLY DO ICAP THAN WE CAN MAKE A DIFFERENCE.
AND AFTER ALL ICAP IS NOT INFERIOR THAN THE OTHER ONES.
AND BESIDES THERE NO USE OF TRYING TO INCREASE THE NUBMER OF VIEWS AND REPLIES TO THE TOPIC BY STARTING A NEW COMPARSION OF CAT VS ICAP as Mr. KHALID mentioned in the above posts..

BEST REGARDS.

ALI.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

ali dear for my life i have been living in uae , but keep visiting pakistan every year for vacations . it seems like u are terrorisiing me saying "kabhi to ana paray ga" i highly doubt, an ACCA member with 3 yrs audit expeience in a big 4 will not get a job in the pakistani market.

i respect all accountancy bodies not just one.

i have not said anything against ICAP in a single post of mine till now i am not speaking for it and i am not saying anything against it as i am not an ICAP member or ICAP student.

i am only againt false crappy statements being made against ACCA continuously by people who r not acca's themselves.

[ali_boy9]

WELL MISS RABIA I'M TERRORISING NO ONE AS I'M A SIMPLE HONEST CITIZEN.
YES. EVEN I'M AGAINST THOSE WHO TRY TO MAKE FALLICIOUS STATEMENTS REGARDING ACCA. BUT IT DOESNT DEPICT THAT THEY ARE BASICALLY ICAPIANS..
YES I'VE READ THE POSTS BY YOU.. THEY ARE IN FAVOR OF ACCA BUT SHOULDN'T BE AGAINST ICAP.

I'M SORRY IF YOU FEAR COMING PAKISTAN AFTER MY POST p
HOPE YOU LIKE PAKISTAN. AND ITS PEOPLE..
WELL I LIVED 19YEARS IN KINGDOM OF SAUDI ARABIA.. THATS WHY I WENT FOR ACCA.. BUT I EXPERIENCED THE DIFFERENCE OF DEMAND IN PAKISTAN FOR ACCA.. ICAP IS GIVEN PREFERENCE OVER ACCA. SIMPLE.. BECAUSE ICAP MAKES THE POLICIES FOR THE INDUSTRIES AND COMPANIES.. AND THE RECRUITER WOULD DEFINITLY FEEL MORE SATISFIED WITH ICAP STUDENTS AS THEY THINK THEY KNOW LAWS BETTER THAN OTHERS BECAUSE THEY MADE THEM.

BUT NOW EVEN ACCA IS GIVEN PREFERNCE HERE.
IN THE GOVT SECTORS OF PAKISTAN THERE IS DEMAND FOR ACCAS.
FOR EXAMPLE IN Project to Improve Financial Reporting and Auditing (PIFRA) THEY HIRED TWO ACCAS. ONE IN FUNDAMENTALS WITH 50,000 ruppees AND THE OTHER WAS A QUALIFIED ACCA OFFERING 100,000+ (negotiable) and other benefits
THERE ARE MANY MORE EXAMPLES..

PEACE OUT
ALI

[kamranACA]

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, san" id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by mroneflower</i>
<br />Dear Brother Kamran

I never said your statements conlict with others. Have I said this?. What I wanted to say that ICAEW had been interesting in Pakistan since 2004 (My idea) and it was ICAP which was not allowing ICAEW to enter in Pakistani market because of the fear that ICAEW will take over ICAP and that is what I have been saying in this particular thread. Moreover I said its ACCA which forced ICAP to allow ICAEW. Got my point. I am still saying this MOU will work in ACCA favour in Pakistan as if ICAP wanted to retain pakistani market then ICAP should first not let ACCA to introdeced itself in Pakistan 1995. If ICAP did it then ICAP should not give large number of exemptions to ACCA. If ICAP did give exemption to ACCA then it should not reduce ACCA exemption. Now game is out of ICAP control. But the main problem is ICAP still not working in right direction. Just a negative propaganda against anyone will not heLp ICAP. I know ICAP people will not understand, but you might get my point.

I seriouly think ICAP cannot do anything now, and there will be stage wHEN legal backing will not help ICAP like what is happening in Malaysian or Singaporian. Last post of the link I provided said if ICAEW will enter in Pakistani market then just ingore it. I do not think its right policy. Got my point dear.

I never used word failure for anyone its Kamran and in my above post I said in Kamran terms Prace is failure. I know ACCA history very well and I am proud of it. I know when ACCA was granted royal Charter and I also know when privy council allowed ACCA members to call themselves chartered accountant. Its not point when ACCA send money on R&D, the main point is ICAP has not sepend anything R&D yet. Kamran called about GHANA. Is ICAP recognised GHANA.

You said <font color="red">The 13 CAs you keep on harbouring about in practice outside of Pakistan are Pakistani CAs (who are partners)who practice in the Gulf as ICAP firms (training ICAP students and abiding by all bye-laws), please note that accountancy firms in the Gulf do not need to be associated with an Institute and only are to be registered with the relevant Ministry.</font id="red">

may I conclude from this ICAP people who are partners in firms aborad are only based un UAE where there is no local accountancy bodies and no other country. May be ICAP people cannot find jobs in UAE bause they cannot compete in open market that is why they established firms in UAE which is easy as comapred to finding jobs. And they are only 13 in number. Cheer Brother, do not take me wrong.

ICAI(india) is in better position than ICAP its ground reality. firts u need to accept reality, then you can tackle it. here ICAP people are not willing to accept reality.

Y ICAEW is so polite with ACCA these days. Obviously they are seeing ahead of 10 to 15 yrs. But If i mentioned this thing here ICAP people will not accept it as they cannot predict it, so leave it.

You said ACCA UK members are not graduate and ICAP almost members are graduate. Let analyses this statement.

ICAP student start ACA from ICAP after Inter and while doing ACA from ICAP do 2 yrs graduation. I accept this claim. I am accepting your claim as I do not trust Kamran.

Now in Pakistan, I suppose student join ACCA after Inter (so starting education of both are same). But ACCA inter student do not start ACCA straight away they first do CAT which is much better than two yrs B.com. After passing CAT and passing ACCA part 2 they complete B.Sc honours degree from oxford Brookes University (39 in Ranking in UK). This B.Sc is equivalent and infact it is itself 3 yrs bachelors degree which is recognised all over the world. So ACCA members hold CAT (which is better than 2 yrs B.com from Pakistani University and not recognised anywhere because of duration of 2 yrs) plus ACCA members hold 3 yrs internationally recognised bachelors degree from UK university.

Outside Pakistan students start ACCA straight away after A-Levels which is itself better than Pakistani Inter. Plus these students also completing International recognised bachelors degree from Oxford Brookes University.

Now you decide ACCA members are international level graduate or ICAP. I leave it to you to decide.

Depsite this I am not in favour of starting ACCA or Ca from ICAP after Inter.

Khalid
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Dears,

This insane comments on others mental capacity. The above post from this unsound mind is sufficient to show his mental presence and is quite elaborative of his aptitude.

He is replying to Pracs's post and does not know he is addressing it to me. What a failure insane he is?

I said he is always a great source of amusement!!!

All the comparison he has made of my posts is an effort of saying "don't go for prayer" by ignoring the whole text that "don,t go for prayer if you are not in senses". I don't mind his senseless comments.


I said one day he will start talking to invisibles with rusty hairs and nails and tatterd clothes. His post to Pracs but addressed to me is one such example.

This shows my analysis about him was totally correct.


Regards,



KAMRAN.

[kamranACA]

Dears,

One such other mental disorder is clearly evidenced from undermentioned quotation of Khalid's post.

QUOTE

In point 4 of same post he further said mean check it in Pakistan, India, China, Canada, USA, Australia, Malaysia, Hong kong and even in UK where it(ACCA) got some sort of charter I think.

So he claimed ACCA is not even Chartered in UK. ACCA is already recognized in most of the countries he mentioned means China, Canada, Australia, Malaysia. In Hong Kong ACCA operated under joint scheme for almost more than 30 yrs. Joint scheme is not available now in Hong Kong. In china ACCA has strategic alliance with CPA.

UNQUOTE

I wrote ...."and even in UK where it(ACCA) got some sort of charter I think".....

and Khalid concluded...... "So he claimed ACCA is not even Chartered in UK".....


Is he not a source of amusement? Be honest buddies.


Rabia,

You again could not understand why so-called was mentioned with 80 countries. I know you are ACCA student. Khalid, I outrightly knew, does not have ability to identify critical issues.

I suggest you to visit the Ali_Boy's post on first page, deeply study the authorizations ACCA have in different countries, compare them with the authorizations available with local charterholders (if any) and find out the difference of recognition you claim for.

Further, go through that list of 80 countries and then check what makes the most of these 80 countries. You will come to know so many such countries are those which, like UAE, do not require practicing accountants to be associated with a particular Institute and only ask for getting registered with certain ministries/departments.

Furthermore, the most important is what I have been mentioning from the outset and to which the hypocrites don't give an ear, i.e. the actual client portfolio and market share of this ACCA in so-called 80 countries in the capacity of solely being ACCA firms. Hypocrites don't bother to comment on ACCA's status at Pakistan because they are habitual of ignoring the facts. It's simply a company registered under section 42 of the Companies Ordinance, 1984 and nothing else. If it is recognised, as you claim for, can you quote me the number of firms in practice (even ignoring audit as it cannot audit) and their client portfolio in whatever field of professional services. Let's forget about audit. I would count on you to have any reply.

The brand of the year award. Mashallah!!! Comapnies may get brand of the year award. It's common feature for companies and their products and rest assured ACCA is merely a company in Pakistan.

Be happy for having the award. Congrats.

I don't expect anything positive and factual in response.


Regards,



KAMRAN.

[rabia-k]

dear kamran i dont need to read anybodys posts regarding acca. i already enough information about it. i dont know y in every post of urs u tell me " i am an ACCA student". well yes i am and proud of it.. . acca only takes one foward and higher in his/her career, there is no doubt in it. ACCA is known/recognised and has a global presence in several countries.

unforunately i am extremely sorry to say, since u kamran are forcing me to say, i am saying this, that the word ICAP might be unknown in those countries.

u r definetly having a hard time accepting this fact.

so u continuously keep bragging and yelling this old point regrading ACA'S given preference ovr ACCA'S in pakistam. since u have no other valid points against acca.

when u talk of ACCA, be well aware that u r talking about a globally recognised qualification and u r having a hard time digesting this fact too.

from ure posts it seems u r having a hard time digesting the fact that ACCA even exists in pakistan.

ACCA Pakistan has been declared as the winner of ‘Brands of the Year Award’ in the category of Professional Accountancy Program. u forgot to mention "In the category of professional accountancy programm". well it is an achievement since ACCA is relatively new in pakistan.

from ure last post one can only make out the tremedous amount of hate & grudge u have for acca. it's made ure mind black against ACCA, unfortunately. like ali boy has said in one of his post "dont just stick to the paki market." think beyond it too.

if u cant then ur just another "chappard ka mandek".

you keep saying ACCA student's r like this and like that ...as if u have done a research on ACCA students.
its simply pointless to discuss about acca with u.

[rabia-k]

hey ali boy, thanks for pointing out the salary part in ure post. if u have more examples please post them too. atleast u agree that acca's do get jobs in pakistan.

i not even once in any of my posts comapred ACCA with ICAP in pakistan

[mroneflower]

In above post instaed of writing dear brother Prace I wote dear brother Kamran. its just a typing error as in my all post I was wroting Kamran that is why this happened in the post. Even if my this mistake is great then still it does not make Kamran false claims correct.

Kamran carry on with your mission. Poeple could see that you do not have any knowledge. people could also understand resaon of my this mistake (means I wrote your name instead of Prace). If you think by pointing out my this mistake you can justify your crap claims, no one can help you.

And what do you mean by SOME SORT OF CHATERTED. Either it is chartered or not. Secondly word chartered does not belong to Pakistan ICAP just stole it in hope to enter in international community of ACAs and falied. SO ICAP is THEIF AS WELL AS FAILURE AND STRUGGLE.

Dear ali_boy9

you said <font color="red">AND THE RECRUITER WOULD DEFINITLY FEEL MORE SATISFIED WITH ICAP STUDENTS AS THEY THINK THEY KNOW LAWS BETTER THAN OTHERS BECAUSE THEY MADE THEM.</font id="red">

Who gave you this wrong information obviously ICAP people. Pakistani laws are not made by ICAP. Pakistani all laws are made by pakistani Parliment and ICAP just follow them. ICAP also steel ideas and words from other accountancy bodies and countries.

Khalid

[mroneflower]

Rabia, its pointless to give any information to ICAP, cause its CRAP.

You must have seen ICAP people propaganda against ACCA.

Anyway I will be back in one week.

Khalid

[Pracs]

Yara Khalid its PRACS and not PRACE !! please be careful, will reply to your post later.

Rabia and Ali typing in capitals throughout means you are 'shouting' and is kind of rude, so in line with forum decorm please do not use capitals through out. Unless, you are shouting anyway,... which is not polite either