Info abt CA and CMA ( PLS reply)

faiza_sid007 · 03-03-2004, 11:39 PM

AOA all senior members
CAN u believe it i found dis site by mere luck and indeed it is proving a gr8 help to me so far...
The thing is tht i'm an A-level student and i shall be passing this may-june. i have opted for CA thru ICAP but now i'm having my doubts regarding my decision. cud u clear out a few things for me...Firstly ive read abt ICMAP in this site and it really interested me...cud anyone pls compare CA and CMA for me, for example which career pays more and the job positions offered if ure a CA or a CMA etc...moreover i wud like to say tht i am very much interested in the management of a business as i am in the accounting aspect of it, keeping this in mind wud u say tht CMA is better for me? Finally is there a route for CMA AFTER we've done CA and if we can do both wat possible routes wud u suggest? PHEWWW...thts all i guess (for NoW)<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>
Looking fwd to all ure replies...thnx a million

Edited by - faiza_sid007 on Mar 03 2004 104407 PM

jbladeus · 03-04-2004, 02:35 PM

Hi faiza

I believe you! <img src=icon_smile.gif border=0 align=middle>

Two words, "CA". enuff said.

If you live in Pakistan, and plan to do so for the forthcoming future, then u should opt for CA. The local CMA from ICMAP doesnt carry much weight around here because the employers look for a person who has ample work experience alongwith academic qualifications.

Sadly, the CMA qualified ppl can easily do CMA without getting any work experience, hence they are not as high-sought after as CAs in the entry-level job market. Qualified chartered accountants are working in the highest management positions in the corporate sector of Pakistan, so dont worry about the management aspect. You will study about it in the later stages of your CA studies. And believe me, its quite a tough paper to pass. <img src=icon_smile.gif border=0 align=middle>

________________________
Arrrgh... it sure's gonna be mighty rough sailin' today ... mates!

shehzad · 03-04-2004, 05:47 PM

Merely gettting enough exposure of VOUCHING and TICKING ( read articleship ) of paper piles doesnt necessarily mean uhave the requisite experience .

Working yourself and checking the work of others are two entirely different aspects of Accountancy .

CAccountancy relates to number crunching and auditing of PAST data CMaccountancy is all about what is to be done and to which proportion .

Let the post implementation era of WTO , GAAT and copyrightO mumbo jumbo prove who performs the best .

As far as PAYCHECK is concerned , the CAs get the upperhand simply because the get themselves engaged in THOSE entities where they WERE auditing previously ( Read " sifarish " of their principal ), and yes, mind u the three highest paid ( Numero uno , dos and trias ) CFOs of the FORTUNE 20 entities ,are CIMA s not CAs or CPAs .

Lastly , if the lady in question wanna have her own business IT WOULD MORE IMPORTANT TO LAY OUT A PLAN TO ULTIMATELY INCREASE PRODUCTIVIY, MINIMISE /REGULATE COST , AND FINALLY A COMPREHENSIVE APPROACH FOR PROFIT MAXIMIZATION BY MEANS OF MANAGEMENT ACCOUNTING AND FINANCIAL MANAGEMENT , she ought to know what to do , BUT if she is going to crunch on the stale numbers go ahead , do CAccountancy .

jbladeus · 03-04-2004, 08:16 PM

Ahhh well... here we go again on the age old discussion of CAs Vs. CMAs! <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>

Dont want to get into any arguement, but would like to clarify to Shahid sahib that vouching and ticking (as u like to put it) is generally done in the first six months of the articleship. The rest of the 4 year period is spent in studying different types of organizations in such a unique way that no other profession can provide.

And yes, i have seen this pretty lame logic of waiting for the implementation of WTO and what-not in 2005 from the ACCA and CMA groups. I say, sure... go ahead, khud hi dekh lena... phir yeh bahaana bhi nahin rahey ga to hide behind! <img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>

Simply said, CAs are paid more for their bigger and better work-environment exposure and through the hard efforts (by working and studying at the same time) they put in during their student life. As for sifarish, Shahid sahib must himself know that a person getting an accountancy job through sifarish would be exposed in no time and would be kicked out of the organization.

________________________
Arrrgh... it sure's gonna be mighty rough sailin' today ... mates!

n/a2 · 03-04-2004, 08:37 PM

Hi faiza,
In comprehensive way. OPT FOR CA. Its much better than ICMA ---.
ICMA is absolutely of no value in Pakistan. In my practical experience i have seen many Icma's just roaming about here and there without getting a respectable job. I have even seen many ICMAs with 0 absolutely 0 knowledge. While you won't find any CA like that of course. I will advise you to opt for ACCA after A level. As if after completing A level your age is 18 years then you can easily enter ACCA. If you really and darely want to do CA then Still Acca is the better route. As if you opt for CA after A levels then you will have two pass 8 long years of extreme hardship(if u keep on passing which rarely happens so)! To complete CA and still u will only get one degree which isn't recognized internationally.While if you opt for ACCA then The time taken to complete CA will only be of 6 years!.
2 years in ACCA and 4 years in CA. There is also a great advantage for opting ACCA firstly u will get 2 degrees while 1 is even recognized internationally (ACCA). Secondly what if ur mind changes and you decide to opt for any other line then!. If you opt to pss through direct CA route then you have to look back and start from the very beginning ie A levels Quiet tough Haan!. While if you opt for Acca then you will also get an other internationally recognized degree of Graduation from Oxford Brookes University England Bsc (Hons) in applied accounting which is now even been recognized by HEC(higher education commision). Isnt that great this degree will be acheived after only 1 year!!!! after completion of part 2 of ACCA.So just think that after only 1 year after A levels u will be a graduate.
Just consider what i wrote. Compare the routes forget Icma and PLEASE SURELY REPLY ABOUT YOUR OPINION> LOOKING FORWARD FOR THE REPLY.

Make an appointment to follow up with your advisor at a later date. That turns the advice into goals, and the follow through into a contract.

Edited by - arslan on Mar 04 2004 34129 PM

derivativetrader · 03-04-2004, 09:28 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
Hi faiza,
In comprehensive way. OPT FOR CA. Its much better than ICMA ---.
ICMA is absolutely of no value in Pakistan. In my practical experience i have seen many Icma's just roaming about here and there without getting a respectable job. I have even seen many ICMAs with 0 absolutely 0 knowledge. While you won't find any CA like that of course. I will advise you to opt for ACCA after A level. As if after completing A level your age is 18 years then you can easily enter ACCA. If you really and darely want to do CA then Still Acca is the better route. As if you opt for CA after A levels then you will have two pass 8 long years of extreme hardship(if u keep on passing which rarely happens so)! To complete CA and still u will only get one degree which isn't recognized internationally.While if you opt for ACCA then The time taken to complete CA will only be of 6 years!.
2 years in ACCA and 4 years in CA. There is also a great advantage for opting ACCA firstly u will get 2 degrees while 1 is even recognized internationally (ACCA). Secondly what if ur mind changes and you decide to opt for any other line then!. If you opt to pss through direct CA route then you have to look back and start from the very beginning ie A levels Quiet tough Haan!. While if you opt for Acca then you will also get an other internationally recognized degree of Graduation from Oxford Brookes University England Bsc (Hons) in applied accounting which is now even been recognized by HEC(higher education commision). Isnt that great this degree will be acheived after only 1 year!!!! after completion of part 2 of ACCA.So just think that after only 1 year after A levels u will be a graduate.
Just consider what i wrote. Compare the routes forget Icma and PLEASE SURELY REPLY ABOUT YOUR OPINION> LOOKING FORWARD FOR THE REPLY.

Make an appointment to follow up with your advisor at a later date. That turns the advice into goals, and the follow through into a contract.

Edited by - arslan on Mar 04 2004 34129 PM
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

One thing I would like to correct that studying for Professional Qualifications like ACCA or CA, itself, do not get you a Degree, since the term Degree is used when you study for academia. Of course, I agree that now while studying for ACCA Oxford Brookes University of UK awards a BSc. but generally speaking studying for a professional qualification is DO NOT a Degree itself and please use the term 'Degree' appropriately in public domain.

AHSAN

XBRL · 03-05-2004, 05:44 AM

I myself never induldge in the comparison activity but the fact is very cold for ACMA's. They do study a lot but they dont get much due to lack of experiance.

I will surely ask u to analyse urself for CA or ACCA. CA is not an easy deal now. The current exam results have proved it to be more than a full time job. If u have an attitude towards studies , u make plans, and study diversly, and still have nerves and will to accept anything in result u may opt for CA.

All above fellows have tried to convince from degree to you, but i am moving from You to the degree/qualif (whateva u say). CA after A levels is like 6 years minimum task extended normally to 7 or 8 years and abnormally to infinity,,,the result is obviouly not bad. CA is updating it fastly with the current situations and ICAP surely consults Canadian, australian and English Accounting bodies for its syllabi... so its the most updated as regards Pakistan,,,,,,,,,,,

BUT BUT,,,,,,,,, u should consider the hard fact that u will be benefitted only if u qualify CA (or any other degree) but the chances of qualifying CA is dependent mostly on individuals. I do have seen a lot of guys who are CA and still 3-8 mnths of articles left and seen ppl who are like struglging for a decade and yet no result so it depends

U may have another lucrative offer. U can complete ur ACCA just in 1.5 - 2 years, whose passing criteria being defined unlike CA is easy to pass thru))) if u want to and then switch over to CA, (with 3 years of articleship instead of normal 4) and plus i have heard that exepmtions are again in action in near future.. plus being a girl u may find it comfortable securing ur future step by step rather than making a big decision emotionally,,,,,

Best regards....ppl post coments (i am hungry of them)

faiza_sid007 · 03-06-2004, 03:00 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
Hi faiza,
In comprehensive way. OPT FOR CA. Its much better than ICMA ---.
ICMA is absolutely of no value in Pakistan. In my practical experience i have seen many Icma's just roaming about here and there without getting a respectable job. I have even seen many ICMAs with 0 absolutely 0 knowledge. While you won't find any CA like that of course. I will advise you to opt for ACCA after A level. As if after completing A level your age is 18 years then you can easily enter ACCA. If you really and darely want to do CA then Still Acca is the better route. As if you opt for CA after A levels then you will have two pass 8 long years of extreme hardship(if u keep on passing which rarely happens so)! To complete CA and still u will only get one degree which isn't recognized internationally.While if you opt for ACCA then The time taken to complete CA will only be of 6 years!.
2 years in ACCA and 4 years in CA. There is also a great advantage for opting ACCA firstly u will get 2 degrees while 1 is even recognized internationally (ACCA). Secondly what if ur mind changes and you decide to opt for any other line then!. If you opt to pss through direct CA route then you have to look back and start from the very beginning ie A levels Quiet tough Haan!. While if you opt for Acca then you will also get an other internationally recognized degree of Graduation from Oxford Brookes University England Bsc (Hons) in applied accounting which is now even been recognized by HEC(higher education commision). Isnt that great this degree will be acheived after only 1 year!!!! after completion of part 2 of ACCA.So just think that after only 1 year after A levels u will be a graduate.
Just consider what i wrote. Compare the routes forget Icma and PLEASE SURELY REPLY ABOUT YOUR OPINION> LOOKING FORWARD FOR THE REPLY.

Make an appointment to follow up with your advisor at a later date. That turns the advice into goals, and the follow through into a contract.

Edited by - arslan on Mar 04 2004 34129 PM
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><img src=icon_smile_shy.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_shy.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_shy.gif border=0 align=middle>

THnx a lot for ure advice ppl...it definitely got a few things into perspective for me...initially i HAD ACCA in mind but then i let go of the idea cos i thought tht i wudnt be going out of pakistan so CA wud be a better choice...however after reading all ure views my thoughts are drifting back to ACCA!!! it wud be gr8ly appreciated however, if anyone cud tell me abt the demand of ACCA's IN pakistan job market. I'm aware tht it wont be much compared to CA's but wud it be atleast secondary to it...and cud anyone do me aHUGE favour and clarify the routes which i cud take to do CA after i do my ACCA??? <img src=icon_smile_shy.gif border=0 align=middle>thnx again 4 ure help...

Edited by - faiza_sid007 on Mar 05 2004 102939 PM

faiza_sid007 · 03-06-2004, 03:19 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
Merely gettting enough exposure of VOUCHING and TICKING ( read articleship ) of paper piles doesnt necessarily mean uhave the requisite experience .

Working yourself and checking the work of others are two entirely different aspects of Accountancy .

CAccountancy relates to number crunching and auditing of PAST data CMaccountancy is all about what is to be done and to which proportion .

Let the post implementation era of WTO , GAAT and copyrightO mumbo jumbo prove who performs the best .

As far as PAYCHECK is concerned , the CAs get the upperhand simply because the get themselves engaged in THOSE entities where they WERE auditing previously ( Read " sifarish " of their principal ), and yes, mind u the three highest paid ( Numero uno , dos and trias ) CFOs of the FORTUNE 20 entities ,are CIMA s not CAs or CPAs .

Lastly , if the lady in question wanna have her own business IT WOULD MORE IMPORTANT TO LAY OUT A PLAN TO ULTIMATELY INCREASE PRODUCTIVIY, MINIMISE /REGULATE COST , AND FINALLY A COMPREHENSIVE APPROACH FOR PROFIT MAXIMIZATION BY MEANS OF MANAGEMENT ACCOUNTING AND FINANCIAL MANAGEMENT , she ought to know what to do , BUT if she is going to crunch on the stale numbers go ahead , do CAccountancy .

<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote> First of all...thnx for the valuable advice...at the moment i'm literally like a sponge...soaking up all the info i can get abt accouting careers...kinda late...but NOT impossibly late u c<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle> anyways abt ure reply above i wud like to point out a few things...or rather ask a few things...First of all ure comment abt the 3 highests CFOS, were u implying tht this is the rank in the PAKISTANI JOB MARKET...cos if u were i seriously doubt it,CIMA more paid thn CA is pakistan!! woah ok...but well clarifications form ure side wud be appreciated.
Second of all u said tht the lady in question...tht is unquestionably ME...shud have a "COMPREHENSIVE APPROACH FOR PROFIT MAXIMIZATION BY MEANS OF MANAGEMENT ACCOUNTING AND FINANCIAL MANAGEMENT"...r u suggesting i shud go for CIMA if i'm interested in setting up my own business in future? pls clarfiy...since wat i "ought to have known" according to u...i UNFORTUNATELY dont know <img src=icon_smile_sad.gif border=0 align=middle> and wud like to know...again waiting for ure response...and thnx for it in advance!

shehzad · 03-06-2004, 06:33 PM

I am not implyin what u should pursue ; just shedding some lights w/o being biased .

PROFIT MAXIMIZATION the ultimate goal of a desi seth or a multi conglomerates .

Lemme clearify

Consider these for your entrepreneurship

Pool ur savings
Prepare Feasibility
Forecast sales
Prepare a compre. Budget
Production / Service Planning
Start
Control the activities by means of control tools .
Reap the MAXIMUM benefit .

TRY TO RELATE NO 1 WITH NO 8 and voila ! ! !

EASY , right ?

Wrong .

Ask , all the derivative traders , they will help u with the No 1
Then CAs like Mr.Guybrush would come up with the idea ," MAMMA MIA ,PAPPA PIA , the Child has got a Diarrhoea " ( in fact the Child HAD a diarrhoea 12 months back ) )

LAstly who would u turn to ? UR guess is as good as mine .

ANd this goes for MR.Guy and the traders Wake up Time has changed .

Visit the websites of all accounting professions , compare WHO GETS WHAT ( MONETARILY OF COURSE ), leave alone Pakistan .

CAs have the unfair monopoly

The seth asks the auditor i need an accountant since u audit ...aik achcha banda mujhe den ........?

The Auditor refers the dumbest of his lot with a good khidmat record . ).

ANd keeps The good ones for himself .

)

No , Pls dont have faith in my sayings . But Seing is believing .

And believe me i have met hoardes of them .

Oopppssss , got carried away ! ! !

Sorry fellars , no hard feelings .

XBRL · 03-06-2004, 06:50 PM

fellows lets make a declaration. from now onwards no comparisons of cma/ca/acca etc,,,,,,,, every one knows the truth and y to discuss it thennnn,,,,

the first question, lemme clarify, todays's seth is asking is "hey Mr CA or CMA or ACCA, can u make my business TAX FREE...... ha ha... so where do we all stand, we know. Tax planning, whether income or sales, whether central excise or custom, the Seth's need this. Plus they require internal auditors

and i have an advice for all CMA's and gonna bees, pls. pursue or think of pursuing CIA coz code of gov thank God has establisehd a good way for a certified auditors...

XBRL · 03-06-2004, 07:42 PM

Just after my above post i started surfing net and explored icmap website. Now for all those CMA's i have a link pasted to see the Job Oppurtunities.
What is this? most of them still require the CA's. Just coz CA has a monoploly or juss coz they are the only one in the pratical field coz u will note , 80% of jobs require articlehship completed CA Inter or CA qualified. experiance or 5-10 prior experiance.....Now if u see the last line of page , u will find two marks, where ICMAP has stated,

* Persuasive letter is sent to consider ICMAP Qualification.

** Introductory letter is sent to mention ICMAP Qualification.

so they still are under the process,,,,,,

http//www.icmap.com.pk/job.htm

Now here is something from ICAP http//www.icap.org.pk/Publications/jobs.htm

best of luck to all CMA's and gonna bees,

jbladeus · 03-07-2004, 07:05 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
I am not implyin what u should pursue ; just shedding some lights w/o being biased .

PROFIT MAXIMIZATION the ultimate goal of a desi seth or a multi conglomerates .

Lemme clearify

Consider these for your entrepreneurship

Pool ur savings
Prepare Feasibility
Forecast sales
Prepare a compre. Budget
Production / Service Planning
Start
Control the activities by means of control tools .
Reap the MAXIMUM benefit .

TRY TO RELATE NO 1 WITH NO 8 and voila ! ! !

EASY , right ?

Wrong .

Ask , all the derivative traders , they will help u with the No 1
Then CAs like Mr.Guybrush would come up with the idea ," MAMMA MIA ,PAPPA PIA , the Child has got a Diarrhoea " ( in fact the Child HAD a diarrhoea 12 months back ) )

LAstly who would u turn to ? UR guess is as good as mine .

ANd this goes for MR.Guy and the traders Wake up Time has changed .

Visit the websites of all accounting professions , compare WHO GETS WHAT ( MONETARILY OF COURSE ), leave alone Pakistan .

CAs have the unfair monopoly

The seth asks the auditor i need an accountant since u audit ...aik achcha banda mujhe den ........?

The Auditor refers the dumbest of his lot with a good khidmat record . ).

ANd keeps The good ones for himself .

)

No , Pls dont have faith in my sayings . But Seing is believing .

And believe me i have met hoardes of them .

Oopppssss , got carried away ! ! !

Sorry fellars , no hard feelings .

<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

Ummm... can somebody please explain to me what Mr. Shahzad has just said? I shall be eternally thankful to one who does.

________________________
Arrrgh... it sure's gonna be mighty rough sailin' today ... mates!

Goodman · 03-07-2004, 11:06 PM

Hi XBRL

Well, I dont support your resolution, I think its good to share information and thought process. We should atleast work towards a democratic society

sumaaan · 03-09-2004, 10:13 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
I am not implyin what u should pursue ; just shedding some lights w/o being biased .

PROFIT MAXIMIZATION the ultimate goal of a desi seth or a multi conglomerates .

Lemme clearify

Consider these for your entrepreneurship

Pool ur savings
Prepare Feasibility
Forecast sales
Prepare a compre. Budget
Production / Service Planning
Start
Control the activities by means of control tools .
Reap the MAXIMUM benefit .

TRY TO RELATE NO 1 WITH NO 8 and voila ! ! !

EASY , right ?

Wrong .

Ask , all the derivative traders , they will help u with the No 1
Then CAs like Mr.Guybrush would come up with the idea ," MAMMA MIA ,PAPPA PIA , the Child has got a Diarrhoea " ( in fact the Child HAD a diarrhoea 12 months back ) )

LAstly who would u turn to ? UR guess is as good as mine .

ANd this goes for MR.Guy and the traders Wake up Time has changed .

Visit the websites of all accounting professions , compare WHO GETS WHAT ( MONETARILY OF COURSE ), leave alone Pakistan .

CAs have the unfair monopoly

The seth asks the auditor i need an accountant since u audit ...aik achcha banda mujhe den ........?

The Auditor refers the dumbest of his lot with a good khidmat record . ).

ANd keeps The good ones for himself .

)

No , Pls dont have faith in my sayings . But Seing is believing .

And believe me i have met hoardes of them .

Oopppssss , got carried away ! ! !

Sorry fellars , no hard feelings .

<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

Seems as if our fellow forum member is an ICMAP student... True that CAs have the unfair monopoly, but isn't that enough to convince the newbie that in Pakistan CA is considered superior to ICMAP qualifieds?... Salary wise, honor wise, respect wise, whatever way you put it, CAs have the upper hand in Pakistan... Now I don't know whether this is right or wrong, but thats how things are here.