Is ICAP third rated

[oalevel]

Here is a scrap posted by someone in the community of ICAP on Orkut and no proper reply was made whether in favor or against it. I am sharing it with a purpose to obtain knowledge from your replies.

Quotes
<font color="blue"><i>"Is ICAP 3rd rated?
Looking at CPA, ICAEW and other top institutions syllabi, there is only one Law paper in each system whereas in ICAP there are three

What is the purpose of examing Functional English, Quantitative Methods, Economics, IT, Human Resource Management, Business Comm? One cant find these types of papers in the other systems....there is no concept of hedge funds in CA...no indepth analysis of stocks, futures and options

ICAP is the only system where u have to pass all the papers in a module whereas such doesnt exist in other systems

With the arrival of CFA's in the market, CA's are no longer preffered in the investment sector because the CFA's have more hold on investments and portfolio management as compared to CA's"</i></font id="blue">

[Muhammad Adnan Arshad]

aisay messages/posts dobara nahi kiyaa kertaay dear.....!!!

ok

[Nauman]

CA and CFA are totally different things in terms of profession.

[heavenspk]

Dear,

Are you making comparison of ICAP and CFA or CA and CFA (This is not clear). I assume that you are comparing ICAP with other professional accountancy bodies and CFA.

As far as Chartered Accountanting is concerned it provide experties in the fields of accounting, auditing, taxation and corporate laws and is not specific for investment management while CFA is only for investment management. The two are quite different disciplines. Its like that you are comparing neurologist with pathologist. CAs have experties in above mentioned fields which CFA dont have.

You have also mentioned that hadging and currency risk management (Options, forward, futures and swaps ) are not in the sylabi of ICAP. I think you have not gone through the syllabus it is a part of module "F".

Then your question is why economics, english, quanitative methods are tought to ICAP students. Quantitative analysis is used in invesment management and hedging in advance level. As far as english is concerned you know that the medium of communication in modern modern business worl is english and CA have to produce reports to clients which have to be in english. You also have to deal with foreign clients as well. You know the level of english of those students who enter the profession. I think it is good idea to improve their english. As far as ICAEW is concerned they dont have need for english paper because the students of ICAEW are very good in english because english is there mother language.

I hope that i have given sufficient explanation of your query

Take care...

[kamranACA]

Dears,

What heavenspk has said is more than sufficient clarification and is very well answer in fact.

However, I just want to add that now accountancy / finance profession has advanced too much. People make professional collaborations and put in collective knowledge, experience and relationships to run the profession (as far as profession is concerned). You would find so many professionals in CA firms (all the big ones) who are CAs, CFAs, Lawyers, ACCAs, CIMAs/ACMAs, I.T. experts, programmers, and so on. I agree that CA firms are focussed primarily on CAs but one can find other high caliber professional in such firm as well. The major reason is that the profession has been too much enlarged and expanded.

However, in jobs, the responsibilities are typically very specific and have determined objectivity. In my view, for jobs, CAs and CFAs do not much affect each other becoz they have primarily different roles although so many CAs could be found involved in capital marekts and portfolio managment etc. Still both CA and CFA professionals are not in abundance, therefore, no problem actually arises.

Every thing eventually rests with experience and practical knowledge backed with some renowned professional qualification like CA or CFA.

I do regard CFA as one of the best qualification having its unique features. However, as I already say nothing is going to affect CA profession even a bit.

Best regards,


Kamran.

[oalevel]

Thankyou Muhammad Adnan Arshad, Nauman, heavenspk and Kamran Bhai for sharing your thoughts and guiding me.

Regards,
Adeel

[Schuaeb]

A similar question regarding course of CA was post by a member on an other thread, why law at three stages. Here QM, Eco, English, Bus Comm, HRM are also added to the list. Why to exclude taxation from Law, and if you include it, then it means law is being examined at 5 stages. And I take it as a positive point. CA as mentioned earlier are supposed to have expertise in fields of corporate affairs and taxation alongwith reporting, auditing and others. It is simply not possible without having a firm grip on ordinances.

Why bus com and eng, when they are not there is foreign qualifications, quite hillarious. Bhai wahan ka tou bacha bacha english bolta he, aur yahan per sikhanay ke baad bhi khatar khva results nahin milta.

[Muhammad Amir]

First Of all Dear OALEVEL If you are talking about Pakistan i must say that most of the topics covered in CFA Curriculum are not applicable here in pakistani Markets even there are so many things that are only applicable in USAs environment as most of the theories are based on the assumption which is hardly found in other markets, CFA is basically having course experties in Investment Management,Asset Management (Portfolio Management and Equity Research both), Hedging approaches of Currency and Interest Rates, Valuations, and others...

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Tahoma, Arial" id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">
<i>posted by heavenspk</i>
You have also mentioned that hadging and currency risk management (Options, forward, futures and swaps ) are not in the sylabi of ICAP. I think you have not gone through the syllabus it is a part of module "F". <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Just Learning Interest Rate Parity Theory, Purchasing Power Parity Theory, Foward Currency Hedging Techniques, Money Market Hedging Techniques, Options, Swaps, Futures etc these things are not full Hedge Management and on the basis of these very few topics neither you can compare CA with CFA nor you can claim that in CA full Hedge Management is covered and I don't think that CAs course is having Hedging Techniques of Interest Rate Risks...

It is also to mention here that in some other thread one memebr claimed that ACCA is equal to CA module 'D' I don't know on which basis he claimed so, becauses these things which are not even part of CAs curriculum are covered in ACCAs Fundamental Level(Part 2)

Similarly, there are so many things which are covered in CA Inter are not even touched in ACCAs Professional level(Part 3) this is because every body is having its own priorities and policies and one can't claim that his body is having some very special prestige If there are some positives in one body there are so many negatives exist in it...

Regards,

Muhammad Amir

[kamranACA]

Dear Amir,

You are basically talking about what you normally see in CA approved study material. Yes, in most of available material these topics are not covered in much detail.

Still, as a topic these are covered in examination sallybus whether or not material is available in market or not. And people who want to study these topics in detail for their career and not just for exam read it in more detail than what is covered in ACCA. ICAP never put cap on studying if it is not examining something. The masters (i mean real masters) of such topics are very rare in Pakistan, and this is most probably the prime reason of choosing lesser questions from these areas.

I read notes of a friend who qualified before me and if you see these notes you will never find it lesser than ACCA. So in sallybus these are fully included but in exams these are not so far examined in much detail.

And of course the reason may be of priority in a specific environment. These transactions are really very lesser in our economy thats why these are lesser focussed. I remember a client who entered into a derivative transaction. It became an issue for them to identify that whether it is derivative or hedgeing. There is lesser expertise of these instruments.

I would appreciate if some one master of such instruments start providing topic-wise general guidance (from scratch) for the common welfare of students and professionals.

I invite attention of Mr. Ahsan Abdullah (DERIVATIVE TRADER) to this issue, if he can spare some time.

Best regards,


Kamran.

[Muhammad Amir]

Dear Kamran Bhai anyone having a little sense can't disagree with your above statements, and i have also said in my post at other thread that CAs paper is difficult and more over the criteria of checking make it more difficult...

You have raised very very important issur for invetstment management this is very very interesting topic for me, i was shocked whether these type of markets exist in pakistan even in countries other than USA because of the conditions for the applicability of certain theories and models, this is why i lot of time said that CFAs scope in pakistan is still very complex issue and it is not that easy to incorporate those features in the country like like pakistan where every thing can be happened and invetstment yielding and more over the future of that investment is uncertain...

As far as i know Derivative trader is CFA level 1 qualified and so he will be busy in level 2 preprations but one can manage to devote his time for the benefits of others and i hope if some really knowledgeable person who knows the pros and cons of this field regularly contribute here...

I know one person he was also my teacher for 2 or 3 classes in JAVA. Sir Zia Ullah Khan he is also very keen in developing CFAs future here in pakistan and from the same platform of OB(Operations Bader where he has first started JAVA/V.B) he is also doing some work for finance prefessionals and investment sector...If he can also also manage to guide keen people...

Can you also please explain the difference between Derivative and Hedging, as far as i read in some place that Derivative is the part of hedging risk, can you please shed some light on it...

Regards,

Muhammad Amir