Late Sittings

n/a1 · 08-08-2003, 09:41 PM

Dear Members

All I think about late sittings during articles is that it is unnecessary. It is only justifiable on final stages of some poorly planned audits. I have served as Manager Audit of a good audit firm. I always avoided late sittings. The working hours of our firm are still from 900 A.M to 500 P.M. They never sit late for more than half an hour.Believe me fellows.........I am not talking about heaven. The firm is not a small sized firm. In fact it is a firm that has very good business and a very long list of clients (It has about 80 - 85 clients for statutory audits only). All I think that it is the overall philosophy of manager and partner that make the students to sit late. We have at least 20 students qualified from our firm (only one branch) since last three years. I think thats because of the resonable working hours that we have here.
My personal opinion in this matter is "if cant finish it in 8 hours then you can never finish it". I think that all the audit firms should do some thing about it. It is rather inhuman to force a person to sit that late and not let him / her live a normal social life.

sumaaan · 08-09-2003, 05:31 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana" id=quote>quote<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
Dear Members

All I think about late sittings during articles is that it is unnecessary. It is only justifiable on final stages of some poorly planned audits. I have served as Manager Audit of a good audit firm. I always avoided late sittings. The working hours of our firm are still from 900 A.M to 500 P.M. They never sit late for more than half an hour.Believe me fellows.........I am not talking about heaven. The firm is not a small sized firm. In fact it is a firm that has very good business and a very long list of clients (It has about 80 - 85 clients for statutory audits only). All I think that it is the overall philosophy of manager and partner that make the students to sit late. We have at least 20 students qualified from our firm (only one branch) since last three years. I think thats because of the resonable working hours that we have here.
My personal opinion in this matter is "if cant finish it in 8 hours then you can never finish it". I think that all the audit firms should do some thing about it. It is rather inhuman to force a person to sit that late and not let him / her live a normal social life.

<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana" size=2 id=quote>

I'm sure everyone would like to know the name of the firm you're referring and try to get into it. )

smraza · 08-09-2003, 07:22 AM

Agreed with sumaaan,
tell me the name of your firm, i m coming to join that heaven, <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>
but tell me the strentgh of your firm, ophelestas, that does matter,
and the most important thing which you must clear is the number of listed, public unlisted and private companies in the number of 80 - 85,
as i can bet, a listed company, (average size) cannot be finalized without late sittings,
i have experienced the finalization of listed companies, where 2 Seniors (finalists) and one Manager (qualified) were involved even then we have to do the late sittings,
Yar, Ophelestas, the late sitting is not only dependent on planning of audit, there are lots of matters invoved in it, e.g. client cooperation, suppose you have initial the accounts on 31st of Aug, and client provides your some information on 28th of aug, and asks you to finalize the audit, then what are you supposed to do ?? will you just take the documents from client and file it ?????? never, you will have to verify all the informations, (as our clients play with us, they provide information at the eleventh hour, so you could not verify, or find out anything from that), thats why dear, we dont have any option except to do late sittings.

S M R

Edited by - smraza on Aug 09 2003 022749 AM

mav3r1ck · 08-10-2003, 12:11 AM

its " Change them, Join them OR LEAVE THEM!!"
)

.M.

n/a1 · 08-11-2003, 09:43 PM

the strength of our firm was 45 students at the time when I was there.

total number of clients (internal and external audits) was about 125.
Among them at least 40 companies were listed. It is ranked in top five firms.

And as far as my experience is concerned, finalization of an average sized company requires only 2 to 3 days late sitting. Not more than that. I repeat, it is the planning that matters. A poorly planned audit will always result in late sittings. But major factor that counts is the overall philosophy of firm. All we need is to change the overall philosophy.

Ophelestas.

smraza · 08-12-2003, 04:48 AM

and what about the client's philosophy ??? who's gonna change that ????? <img src=icon_smile_question.gif border=0 align=middle> <img src=icon_smile_dissapprove.gif border=0 align=middle>

S M R

n/a1 · 08-12-2003, 05:05 PM

Dear Raza

during articles, you do not follow the clien't philosophy. If a client delays in providing the information, the matter may be discussed on higher forums. Your principal can discuss the matter with client's top level management. I have an experience that in 90% cases, it resolves the problem. Anyhow, my point of view is that client cannot force you to sit late whether directly or indirectly.

<img src=icon_smile_approve.gif border=0 align=middle>.

Ophelestas

P.S I think that our other members in the forum are no more interested in the topic. Come on guys..................help me out. Mr. Raza is giving me a tough time here.......<img src=icon_smile_tongue.gif border=0 align=middle>

jbladeus · 08-12-2003, 05:54 PM

Hi everybody

Ophelestas, its my expereince that whenever i used to contact my partners to ask the client to hurry up, it was i who was asked to hurry up my work instead of the client. All our partners work by the salesman mentality which is "the client is always right"!

Hey, this topic is still interesting to us. And SMR, don't try to pull the leg of poor Ophie, he/she might sprain an ankle. <img src=icon_smile.gif border=0 align=middle>

________________________
Arrrgh... it sure's gonna be mighty rough sailin' today ... mates!

n/a1 · 08-13-2003, 05:02 PM

<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>...........Hey, GuyBrush.....I am a "he". Any ways. I had a different experience with my partner.

Ophelestas.

smraza · 08-15-2003, 06:23 AM

Hey Ophie, I am 100% sure that you may be the relative of that partner or you may have strong pawwa <img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>

S M R

mav3r1ck · 08-15-2003, 01:04 PM

planning is what that makes difference. although there may be some unexpected circumstances, but these r usually 1%, and 1% is the client-is-king-and-u-have-2-sit-late thing, and due to dead lines which r 3%, so the 95% of the times, its only INEFFICIENCY on the teams part and together with wrong planning at upper level part, that makes trainee to sit late, and dont u forget the "come-late-and-go-late" factor Wink

.M.

mav3r1ck · 08-15-2003, 01:15 PM

.....and abt client who usually delays in providing info, ppl, dont u forget that theres always one or another way to verify. and this ophie is right that 1-1 with top hirarky regarding this issue is helpful.
.
.
.
ps strongly i am of the opinion that late sittings dont hurt ur studies that much when they r for efficient work and early completion of audit, and 95% of the times, its due to our inefficiency that we take usally 2 hrs lunch break, 1 hr gup shup break , phutta factor, and etc etc. late sitting is avoidable. but if the other way round with some of the luckyiest Wink

ppl, then they must have heard "hope for best and expect for worst "thing, so PLAN and ACT! plan ur studies ,if u r forseeing the late sittings on tuf clients. and regarding social relationship is disturbed, pehlay say pata nahi tha kiya ,aana nahi tha na yaar.ghar baithna tha Wink

.M.

n/a1 · 08-15-2003, 04:58 PM

This is the spirit guys. Plan your audits. Just give your best shot during the working hours and you'll never need to sit late. <img src=icon_smile_shy.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_shy.gif border=0 align=middle>
<img src=icon_smile_shy.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_shy.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_shy.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_shy.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_shy.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_shy.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_shy.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_shy.gif border=0 align=middle>.

smraza · 08-18-2003, 03:53 AM

When we are in the process of file reviewing, the manager first of all review "Audit Planning" and "Audit completion & Reporting" Section, and there he must see the Time summaries,if late sittings are reflected in that time summaries <img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>, then he keeps naram hath, otherwise you can imagine if have got your file reviewed, (and if u r from top 3 firms)

S M R

Muhammad Nauman · 08-21-2003, 12:49 AM

But Raza bahi
one has to take strong step against this attitude of managers and partners. We should convince them that good quality work can also be done in normal office hours. We should not accept this as a fact.

When we show them 3-4 quality working papers file prepared without late sittings then their attitude will start changing.

What u says???