Need for New Leadership

[awaisaftab]

n the prevailing situation many people feeling the need of new leadership. Many persons are taking the name of Imran Khan as a new leader. They think that Imran Khan has the potential to lead the nation.

No doubt in worst law and situation in the light of Conspiracies doing by Israel, India and America against our country has an immense need of undaunted, brave and intrepid leader. In my opinion our nation has a need of new leadership. Although Nawaz Sharif has prooved himself as a good leader at the issue of nuclear tests and on the event reinstatement of Honourable Chife Justice of Paksitan. But his silence on Carry Logger bill and on American intervention in the country gives birth to many reservation. He is waiting for his turn that's why when nation is suffering too much Nawaz is too busy in negotiation with Zardari regarding NRO,third term of prime minist and Seventeenth amendment. Nawaz Sharif wants to make a deal with Zardari and if constitutional ban on becoming prime minister third time is removed Nawaz Sharif will support Zardari on NRO to make it law and get approved it with more than two third majority from parliament.

Members are invited to post their comments on the issue of need of new leadership and the persons who have courage to become good leader. Because if a nation selects a real and correct leader then it can overcome its miseries and can make progress.

[kamranACA]

Will it make a difference what we discuss or conclude?

If yes, we should certainly do it. Answer has to be found with faith, forebearance and courage.

BTW why none of us feels like sacrificing his money, time, blood and soul for this purpose? I hope the answer to this question will lead to the answer of first question.

Regards,

[awaisaftab]

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, san" id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by kamranACA</i>
<br />Will it make a difference what we discuss or conclude?

If yes, we should certainly do it. Answer has to be found with faith, forebearance and courage.

BTW why none of us feels like sacrificing his money, time, blood and soul for this purpose? I hope the answer to this question will lead to the answer of first question.

Regards,

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Dear Kamran,

In my opinion it will certainly not make any difference but we can share our views. The prevailing situation is too teasing for all of us. It is the rule of psychology that discussion about tension creating topic helps to overcome the depression.

You are right that none of us feels like sacrificing his money, time, blood and soul for this purpose. We have become selfish our mentality is limited to ourselves. When the crisis of Waziristan started and some parties were organizing prostrations against attacks on Waziristan the presence of people in this demonstration was negligible then someone said that this fire will come in our homes. But we were busy in lives. Now this fire has reached at our homes then now we are crying on it. Our personal lives are full of sins and we always think only about ourselves. We remained silent when American was killing our Muslim Brothers in Afghanistan; we remained silent on the issue of Drown attacks. We remained silent on the issue of operations in Swat. Thousands of innocent students of Lal Masjid were killed in Islamabad but we were too busy in our routine lives. What is it all???? As a nation we also involved in many social evils. Is it the punishment of Allah for our sins???

We have to decide what type of Pakistan we want to give to our next generations. The group of some thousand people is governing on us for more than sixty years. This group consists of generals, bureaucrats, politician and industrialists. These people are sucking blood of our nation for sixty years. Now time has come to throw them out of power corridors and doing accountability of their corruptions. Just kindly analyze that who was responsible for sugar crisis. You will find that parliamentarians and politicians of both ruling and opposition parties have their sugar mils and involved in the hoarding of sugar to artificially and deliberately raise prices of sugar.

People taking the name of Imran Khan (specially young generation) and thinking that he can bring a revolution in the country but in my opinion his parry is one man show and nothing else. He is not in a position to win some dozen seats from cities in an ideal situation. Who can bring revolutionary changes in our system??? This question is still answerable. I think a social alliance of different social groups can bring change. Just as the alliance of social groups has played a vital role in first reinstatement of chief justice.


However it is my personal view.


Regards,

Awais Aftab

[kamranACA]

Awais

I appreciate your concerns which are quite similar to those which most of Pakistanis have today. The things have worsened materially over a year or so. We cannot however conclude the reasons in one go as to why this is happening out, why it was not a situation previously in vogue and who are solely responsible for it without having an open mind and without having the courage to accept what we all are. We have been hearing on media, and it is in fact a chain that can only be jotted down counting each and every historical decision and step taken by the predecessors.

Now after the failure of long term plans it may not be explicitly provable thing if we, for any good, shift the responsibility on previous govts, although we know the current situation has been derived by the historical events. Why? Because, it will provide no solution to us for taking any cohesive action.

The thing where we make a mistake is that we only blame, for the current situation, our establishment (components you have pointed out) and Wadaira system that “combination” has been governing us for last 60 years and assume that all others are milk washed. The deterioration of systems, failures, governance issues and begging can be alleged to the said “combination”. But the anarchy created currently has its roots somewhere else, although partly the governing combination is also responsible for it for its historical decisions.

If you go back to the days of Lal Masjid issue, you will find my posts on this forum where I wrote that although the terror and its elements (also known as terrorists) have been given birth by the “combination” but they (terrorists) personally have to be responsible as well whenever a rotation cycle will stop and things will crystallize. So many friends criticized and expressed very depressed comments. I told them that what has been started by such elements at Lal Masjid will soon cover the entire country. This was well expected. Unless and until we will not address this matter with unifying efforts, it will be engulfing the peace like a dragon.

Our problem is that we are quite emotional for religious matters and we don’t give a damn to apply mind in such cases. We believe that whatever a specific person (our so-called or real Aalam) guides should be followed with closed eyes, closed ears and closed thoughts because we don’t know anything. If we don’t get biased, and in fact analyze our reaction and practices we all will reach to same conclusion. We always forget that the Holy Book everywhere asks/orders us to apply mind and repetitively says that it (the Holy Book) has hints and guideline for the people of wisdom and for the people who search. I would again say that this very thing is the difference between Islam and previous messages. Previously humans were told a line of action and then strictly asked to follow it. In Islam human being is told/explained, asked to ponder on, and then accept or follow or conclude. In one of his books Mumtaz Mufti has discussed this matter at length.


My views will never be accepted but I believe that learning of religion (even comparative religions) is vital and without it we cannot part with the difference of an animal and a human; and such learning is not solely limited to Madrissa system. With the exception of few renowned Madrissa’s, the rest of such setups have in fact been converting the humans into animals instead of doing the reverse thing. We are witnessing it now. Saying anything like this is a taboo, you will see.

A person like you and me can only write posts on forums. Most of the ones who were saying on media and gatherings that this fire will enter the homes have also to be analyzed by us. Those are the men who were and are the reason of what is currently happening out. Our so many “Rehmatulla Aleh’s” and “Dam-e-Zillukum’s” (which some of us feel they are) were working for the benefits of others. Results suggest this, otherwise, as I said earlier, we cannot prove it. They did everything for their benefits, existence and remaining into power and for the ill of their opponents.

You discussed Lal Masjid action, Swat action etc in your post.

Lal Masjid! No muslim can and should fire / shoot into the mosques. There are no two opinions even if it will be asked from a non muslim. However, this should have been realized by those who were hiding their heads inside and who made out a reason of this action. In fact they were the Ulema (if we accept) and Musharraf was a worldly man. It was their FARZ to take care for the well being of Masjid much more than Musharraf. Every one criticizes army but no one wishes to think to the contrary (for the reason I explained earlier). If we go back, what not and what not was offered to them (Mr. Ghazi) to leave their stance but they did not agree. If they were milk washed then why they did not come out? Why one of them used veil (burqa) to find the refuge? Who killed that burqa posh element? No one. So what was the problem to others? If it was the issue of only the female students and kids then what was the problem at all. Principle or ego? We did not see principle in any of their act including burqa posh one. A wrong principle leading even to death is the act of PHAROAH and not of Allah’s people. What a huge quantum of ammunition was doing inside if it was merely an educational setup or mosque? There are no answers to these questions and no one of us even wishes to think over it. Our media, our fellows, no one. We will always feel sorrow for the innocents who died but the ones who were their guardians there cannot be called innocents. It cannot be rotated by whatever means we do. In whatever set up a few Madrissa literate Mauvlies (or even Ulema) cannot be allowed to take law and order in their hands. Does it happen any where in the world including the Saudi Arabia? Will it be okay if every one so called Ghazi will be allowed to do the samething.

Swat! I must say this matter had been lingered on due to the absence of unifying efforts and for the reason that all the people fighting for the so-called name of Islam are agents of US, India and Israel. If not, then can any body tell who is supplying them such a huge amount of ammunition which can stand so long even against an army? Why their reservoir of ammunition is not finishing? Where from funds are coming that are feeding such a big culprit militia so long? From where they are getting consumables? Can any body tell why not Baitullah was killed for so long even if US has all satellite systems and drone equipment? (ISI two times pointed out his existence to US but no drone attack was made). We must remember that when he was killed US said it will strengthen US relations with ISI and army. Can any one understand what it meant? Why NATO and US closed down their check-posts at the Waziristan adjoining areas of Afghanistan soon after the start of the operation? Dear this is the time we should at least start using sense which has been asked by the HOLY BOOK. I must ask (although believe no one will even consider it) that please stop having sympathies with those who are being fixed. I feel there is yet not an unifying effort but at least forces have realized or have been made to realize what is going on. Is there any way out except this operation? Will you like to see thousands of Burqa Posh so-called Mujahideen-e-Islam (Naoozbill, I know they are not) running from Wazeeristan and swat. My friend these people are enemies of Islam. No body could ever hurt Islam and its respect on the globe what these terror elements have done.

I wonder why we are unable to compare anything with the practices of Noble Muslims, Sahaba-e-Karam Raziallah Anhum and Prophet Peace Be Upon Him. How and on what basis we feel and even believe this terror will call back that era? La-Hol Wala Quwwa.

There are only two way outs. Either to crush the terror or to sit with them on a table to resolve the “issues”. No sane person can believe that their “issues” are resolvable and their demands are acceptable. I said this never happens across the globe. Not even at Saudi Arabia. Then what the solution remains? Decision is upon readers.

As far as Imran Khan, Nawaz or Zardari etc are concerned, they can never change the fate of the nation. And there are no heaps of the reasons. The only one reason is that we don’t want to change our fate as well. Zardari is the president who took historical ever maximum votes for being elected. Was any body having any doubt about him? Who elected him? Certainly our representatives. What our representatives are what they do? They are certainly from among us. What they do is exactly the same which you pointed out in your last post. Mind it; we are those who dont want to change our fate.

I at the outset asked, would there be any benefit of this discussion?

If any one finds, let me know.

REGRETS ARE DUE FOR THE LENGTH AND EDITS.


Regards,



KAMRAN.

[Osama Rules]

Salam,

I find Mumtaz Mufti words preety interesting!!

I fully agree with u;
the only solution of these brain washed & foreign agents lies with army.....

I wonder why there r so many earth quakes in pak all of the sudden???

[0]

[Osama Rules]

Salam,

Talking abt KSA,they have one the the best intelligence in the world & r intelligent enough not to let others know... [D]

They also face this extremist problem but they tackled it in a clever way,they convinced extremist that they wont harm them but give them jobs in exchange of their's arms...

They even have a policy of changing imam's mosque if they become famous in their town,so they simply shift the area or mosque for that particular imam as they dont want to take any chances...

So the basic system first of all need to be in placed & i think that requires strategic planning..

Regards.

[kamranACA]

Water is above the shoulders level now.

We have to surrender (accept their demands) or crush them.

Decision has to be taken by every one at his own.

[Muhammad Amir]

A military constituted major overhual is required in Pakistan. I think General Kiyani should do something for this CIA planted government. Hope to see 111 brigade in action soon.

My comments which were published by Ahmed Quraishi in this regard,

http//www.ahmedquraishi.com/article_detail.php?id=593

Other groups which promoted the idea,

http//teabreak.pk/tag/army-officers/

http//teabreak.pk/pakistan-coming-coup-the-final-solution-200/15372/



Reaction from American puppet on these suggestions.
http//iaoj.wordpress.com/2009/02/06/be-aware/

[kamranACA]

Amir

111 brigade is heard to have started some movement. However, history suggests that it never took such a long time that has gone since this news was first on-aired. So, I have reasons to believe that there is no "traditional" movement of 111 so far. Regarding "untraditional" movement, nothing can be said.

As far as your idea of military rule is concerned, besides having regard for your concerns, I totally disgaree with all the stuff you wrote in the article you referred above. Do you feel politicians are the only corrupt people in Pakistan? What is your idea about army? Can you go back to the history of this "proud" and "noble" army? Can you characterise and analyse the top leadership of this army?

Army rule is one of the worst jungle rules if it exists any where. There is no doubt in it. Any such rule cannot simply be compared with some of the golden eras in the history for more than a thousand reasons. We must not lose sense for being emotional. Had the army rule been a cure, then this cure should have affected the disease during the over 30 years army rule in Pakistan.

So whatever UNIT you wish or expect is either a day dream or a mis-directed vision caused by emotional idealogy. Give 30 further years to this army and check the results. Nation will be drowned 30 years further deeper in the dirt. We don't forget our heros who had been the reason of change of world's map in 1971. If they are upto it, that was the time to prove. We all know they failed. We can put this responisbility on politicians' shoulders but it will be an attempt to change the topic because army is responsible to fight back all internal and external threats.

It's a long topic and I know I cannot convince prejudiced minds. However, if you aggregate the corruption done by army in last 60 years (in monetary terms) and compare it with similar calculation for politicians, I bet politicians will not even be 20 percent of army in this contest. I can tell you this for obvious and certain reasons.

Regards,



Kamran.

[Muhammad Amir]

I said that military does not need to intervene in "traditional" style. A mistake which was continuously repeated by military rulers is, after throwing out politicans, they again relied on Politicians, for example General Musharraf after throwing PML(N), he once again formed PML(Q) which consisted of same re-branded politicans. This time I want to see some change in coup and I want military to take Pakistani Nation in their confidence and not these Bey-Gherat politicians and links of these politicians with India, America and Israel are not hidden secret.

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, san" id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">So whatever UNIT you wish or expect is either a day dream or a mis-directed vision caused by emotional idealogy.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

May be you are right since I have nothing to support my words but comming days will prove on what really happened!

[kamranACA]

Dear

I don't understand how you believe your army (future vision) leaders are ghairat-mand. Can you find me such ghairat-mand coup or unit. I mean a few instances of ghairat-mand people.

In my first post at this thread I raised a question. That is highly relavant at this stage.

Regards,


Kamran.

[Ali RAZA]

Everyone criticize army which might be correct but I think Mushraff(also Bey-Gherat) is much better than Bey-Gherat politicians.

On issue of Lal Masjid I agree with kamran's views.Some people are very emotional on Islamic issue.

[Muhammad Amir]

Ofcourse there are some black sheeps in army as well but at least none of the military ruler can be charged for corruption or selling of country, it is these politicans who are blessed with these qualities. It is important to understand that whenever Army intervened in the politics, it is these politicans who spurred them to do so. In my suggestions I just said that military should only work as facilitator and install a technocratic Desicion Making Unit, which means that Army should not rule directly or indirectly, it just need to provide the groud and required sources for major overhauling in the country. Later, those who are selected to serve the country should assume their responsibilities in providing more effective infrastructure. I oppose democracy due to two reasons;


1) Because it is the system of infidelty, where we count heads not loyalties and committments. It is the most corrupt system which has been imposed by Dajjal and his cronies on poor people of this land. Zaid Zaman Hamid Sb is also of the same view.


2) Democracy is a failed system in case of Pakistan because these self styled and self proclaimed slogan bearers of Democracy are not democratic in their own right. You can see Bhutto Monarchy (which later converted in to Bhutto Zardari monarchy, Allah has saved us other wise we might have seen Bhutto Palen Zardari after his flirty joke with "GORGOUS" Sarah). Sharif Bros monarchy, Chuhdry monarchy and Mullah fazal led MMA (the biggest hypocrite and Yahoodi agent). I am just saying that political parties are not democratic in their own right. Only Jamat-e-Islami is the one party which has some democtratic norms in them, even MQM is not a democratic party. If you see the organisational structure of MQM and their party norms, you will conclude that this party is based on "peeri-mureedi" cult, where Mr. Altaf Hussain is an occult peer and rest are "Bay Bass" Mureeds. P

Kehany Ka Maqsad Yeh Hay Kay, due to illiteracy in people and due to these corrupt political parties, Democracy is an absolute failed system. In this situation we only have a military facilitated and technocratic backed solution which was explained in DMU.

I hope I have clarified my views.

[Muhammad Amir]

By the Way, I have heard Fozia Wahab of PPP saying, "KOI MAI KA LAAL PPP KE GOVERNMENT NAHE GIRA SAKTA!!". I wonder if she can remember they days of 1977.

[kamranACA]

Dear

I agree our politicians (all) are black sheeps, corrupt and enemies of interests of peoples of Pakistan. No two opionions. However, at the same time I don't at all agree that army has only a few black sheeps or we have some very reliable technocrates.

I told you that all the corruption done by politicians in last 60 years in aggregate is not equal to twenty percent of what army / establishment has done.

Army always had the biggest budgets (mostly on the name of so-called defence) that had historically remained un-auditable. Auditing or accountability of army had always been a taboo in Pakistan. How I or you can say they never have done so while we know some instances like Mansoor-ul-Haq that were somehow surfaced. Dear, every year army eat out the substantial part of your funds (available to the nation) that are in fact never audited.

We know army generals (so-called Rehmatullah Alehaan) whose sons have established industries and sugar mills and properties of having billions of worth. Who knows what swiss banks carry on behalf of account codes opened for such generals. Yahaan kuch highlight ho gaya tu ho gaya warna qaum tu so rahi hai.

I don't believe we have any such army general or technocrate who can do this for the nation.

I would again refer to my first post where I asked a basic question. All answers lie in that question.

Good day!

Regards,



Kamran.