09-07-2004, 09:52 PM
Religious leaders responsible for backwardness of Muslims Mahathir
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Exclusive Interview
By Fahd Husain
ISLAMABAD Dr Mahathir Mohamad, former prime minister of Malaysia, says President Pervez Musharraf has one of the toughest jobs in the world.
"Look at the number of people who have been trying to lead Pakistan and trying to develop it. They could not succeed because the job is really very tough," Dr Mahathir said in an exclusive interview on Geo TVâs talk show âFollow Up With Fahdâ which was aired on Wednesday night. "I think President Musharraf has got greater complications in the fact that the world is plagued with terrorism, anarchy and threats by the powerful countries to change regimes," Dr Mahathir said.
In the extensive interview Dr Mahathir, who is arriving in Pakistan this week, talked at length about the Muslim world, developing countries, and the Malaysian experience. He also talked about what countries like Pakistan needed to focus on to succeed and develop like Malaysia.
Dr Mahathir Mohamad stepped down as the prime minister of Malaysia in October last year after serving in the office for 22 years. In this period, he transformed Malaysia from an agrarian country into a dynamic Asian powerhouse. He also emerged as a powerful spokesman for the Muslim world, often criticising the Western nations for their double standards.
Dr Mahathirâs transformation of Malaysia has forced many leaders of developing nations to look closely at his policies and priorities in order to learn useful lessons. After retirement, Dr Mahathir is a much sought after speaker across the world. He is now arriving in Pakistan where he will be meeting, among other people, President Pervez Musharraf and Prime Minister Shaukat Aziz.
In the interview, Dr Mahathir had encouraging words for the newly inducted Prime Minister Shaukat Aziz. "I know Shaukat, he was working in Malaysia before. He is a good banker and he understands the economy. Of course he will have to get familiar with the political situation in Pakistan because you cannot just succeed in economy without understanding the politics as well. So I am quite sure that he is quite familiar with both areas in Pakistan," Dr Mahathir said.
So what is the secret of his success? Dr Mahathir had a simple answer "No there is no Mahathir formula. It is ordinary attention to details, willingness to work really very hard, to understand why people oppose, and what we have to do to overcome such opposition and the like. I think it is the ordinary thing that any leader would do." But he cautioned against copying the âMalaysian modelâ because "we have certain backgrounds and certain basic assets or strengths, which have enabled us to do what we have done. So each country needs to devise its own approach."
For many this Malaysian approach has meant a strong government. Critics have even called Mahathir a dictator, though he was an elected prime minister. Mahathir for his part is a strong proponent of a strong government. "In Malaysia, we are a democratic country but we work very hard to get the support of the people and majority of the people support us and because of that we have been in power for a long time. Itâs not a dictatorship, but the strength of the government is important if we want to carry out plans. If we have changes in the government every now and again, then no plans can be implemented successfully. Therefore, whether you have an authoritarian ruler or an elected ruler but he is given sufficient backing to carry out plans and strategies, the chances are the person who has more authority has greater chances of achieving success than the one who is always worried that he may be ousted," he said.
Dr Mahathir also believes that what matters in the end is whether a government has delivered results. "There is too much talk about democracy as if democracy will save everything. Democracy has got a lot of weaknesses. In some cases it may lead even to anarchy. We should be democratic but we should have our own democracy where the law is such that the rights of everyone are protected, not the rights of the individuals. And as for the press, while they should be free, they should not be free to tell lies and to instigate people. So we have democracy but there must be some reasonable control in order to achieve maximum results from democracy."
The results that matter most to him are economic. "We have the philosophy of sharing the economic cake as we say. It is far better to have a slice of the economic cake that is growing than the whole of the economic cake that is shrinking. And to do this we need peace and stability in our country and that peace and stability has contributed to our progress."
And it is this same message that Dr Mahathir wants to deliver to Pakistan. "I think the people of Pakistan should come together, whether they are Shiites or Sunnis, and letâs work out how can we live together and tolerate each other," he said. "I think that we should learn how to be more accommodating, that we should not allow our emotions to take hold of us and react to violence. Above all we must not resort to killing each other because we are all Muslims, whether you are Shiite or Sunnis we all profess to be Muslims. As long as we bear witness that there is only one God and that Mohammad (PBUH) is His Prophet, we are Muslims. Other interpretations may differ but we shouldnât allow these other interpretations to make enemies of ourselves and to resort to violence, which will only weaken and destroy us."
This is why Mahathir reserves strong words for Muslim leaders and the Ulema. He blames them for distorting the image of Islam and using religion to advance their political goals. "Muslim leaders want to use religion for their own personal gain perhaps, and some Ulema would like to be in the position of influence and even to have power, and because that would constitute politics and because of politics many of them have been deflected in order to keep their followers and keep their positions. They are not actually looking at the Islamic Ummah as a whole but merely at their position in the community," he said.
Mahathir said the biggest mistake Muslims were making was not to follow the teachings of Islam. He said for over 1400 years there have been so many interpreters of Islam that they have now confused the Ummah completely. "We are now so divided that we are quite ready to fight and kill each other," he said. "And some of the interpreters of Islam at one time condemned progress, the study of science as irrelevant and because of that we have now become very backward."
Dr Mahathir blames the religious leaders for this backwardness. He said the Ulema want the people to remain dependent upon them. "This is what happened in Malaysia. We have an Islamic party here, which actually tries to keep people as ill informed as possible. As you know historically the Muslims were the greatest pioneers in the fields of science for example mathematics, but there came a stage when some interpreters of Islam said that learning of science was not required in Islam, that all you have to learn was the religion. Of course when people only learn religion then people who are well versed in religion become very influential and very powerful. So whether it is the teachings of Islam or it is their own desires to achieve influence that is something that may have to be looked into. Because if it is true religious teachings and not study other subjects, then okay we will accept that, but I feel that this teaching has held us back because now we are very backward in many things."
Dr Mahathir also took the radical step of ceasing financing of many Madaris in Malaysia. "We discovered that they were not teaching religion at all, they were teaching politics, the politics of hatred and we see no reason why we should support institutions that say one thing and do another. And this is very harmful because what they teach is how to hate other Muslims and that is against the teachings of Islam."
Dr Mahathir, however, feels that there is a slight change in within the Muslim world since the 9/11 attacks in New York and the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq. "There is a greater realisation of the position of the Muslims today. Unfortunately our reaction is not quite the right thing for example because of our anger we want to hit back and we hit back without thinking of the consequences. If we want to fight any fight we have to plan carefully, look at it calmly and devise a strategy that will give us victory, not just revenge but victory. But obviously we are not doing that and itâs because of that we have not made much progress. But the realisation that we are not in a good position is a progress in that direction."
In his last speech as the prime minister, which he delivered at the OIC summit in Kuala Lumpur last October, Mahathir lit a global firestorm, when he made some remarks on the Jews. He now says his remarks were taken out of context. "I blamed the Muslims much more than I blamed the Jews in fact. Because I thought it would be if I were to talk to a Muslim audience about how wrong the Jews are. But the facts of the case must be stated and the fact is that today the Jews have become very strong because they control the most powerful country of the world. That apart I also pointed out that we had a lot to learn from the Jews even, how to plan our progress until we achieve success. So I blamed the Muslims but the Jews never read that."
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