Scope of ICMA grads.

[acer]

Does anyone know the scope of ICMA grad. As far as I know they are no more good than a MBA. ICMA's can not be auditors, they can't prepare financial statements, and they also do not have signing authority. So what good they are for?
I know they may be few students or affiliates of ICMA. What do they think is the their scope after graduation?
Please share your replies..

[awaisaftab]

Dear Mudassar,

A lot many views have been given on this topic. Please read my topic ACMA’s Vs CA’s. this topic is available on following link on the forum

http//www.accountancy.com.pk/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=6519

As you start reading this topic, you will find many battles of words between me and other. So kindly don’t put oil on fire as the holy month of Ramzan is being going on. After many such battles of words I have reached at the result that these discussion create hatred among forum members. But I want to reply to some of points that you raised in your post.

Please visit web site of ICMAP and see syllabus you will find that the topic of consolidated financial statements is included in our syllabus an ACMA can prepare even financial statements of group of companies see also the syllabus of Financial Reporting of stage V. Past papers are also available on the web site . You may also see them.

ACMA’s have right to do the audit of Private Ltd Companies having paid up capital up to a certain limit as mentioned in Companies Ordinance,1984.

ACMA’s has right to perform Tax audit and Sales Tax audit as per Income Tax ordinance 2001 and Sales Tax Act respectably.

ACMA’s has right to conduct cost audit, which is mandatory for certain industries as per Companies Ordinance, 1984 .

ACMA’s can become Company secretary as per corporate laws.

ACMA’s can become liquidator..

ACMA’s can become internal auditor of companies as per code of corporate governance, 2005.

Finally ACMA’s are not graduates. ICMA is considered equal to masters.

Dear,pl don't mind which university teaching teaching the tax law,corporate law,auditing, financial accounting,cost accounting, management accounting and auditing in such detail and depth as the ACMA's read these subjects.

See ads of big companies for the vacant post of CFO,Internal Auditor and Director Finance you wil find in mostly ad that required is either CA or ACMA. If M.B.A or M.Com is reqired a experience of 15 to 20 years is also required. Contrary to this ACMA's and CA's hold only 2 to 5 years experience become eligible for these post. Ussually a fresh ACMA with some experience starts his career with a starting salary of RS. 30,000-40,000. While a fresh M.B.A of a good university starts his career with a salary of 10,000-20,000.

Regards,

Awais Aftab

[aliacma]

Listen dear;

I don't know from where u listen that ICMA qualified r not more than

MBA. Have u ever met any CMA qualified??? No. That's why u have wrote like it. It is the 2nd most recognized and well accepted accountancy profession after C.A. in Pakistan as well as it has a very good market world wide especially in middle east. Moreover, recently Its UK counterpart degree CIMA have recently given 11 exemptions out of 14 papers to ACMA qualified.

The thing is CMA qualified does not have formal training like C.A in Pakistan. But when they get into market, they get middle management positions and after getting experience Top management positions are for them. NO MBA can get top management positions as early as CMAs.

Dude! its a professional degree; study almost all professional subjects C.A students study. ICMA also has very strict criteria like in C.A. MBA get accountancy knowledge (Tution)from ACMAs/CAs.

So far as Specialization is concerned ICMAs emphasis is on COST & Management Accountancy profession whereas C.A specialization is on Audit & General Accounts. Despite this, C.As and ACMAs both r rendering their services in General Accounts as well as in Management Accounting; some ACMAs r also in Internal Audit positions as well.

What an MBA knows? Does he study IFRS (International Financial Reporting Standards), ISAs (International Standards on Auditing).
Even if any university giving knowledge to them, then too its basic knowledge n can never ever compete any accountancy body exam standard & criteria.

Hope i have cleared ur question.

[awaisaftab]

Muhammad Ali I warmly wel come to you on the board, Well done,you have presented the view and status of ACMA's in excellent manner. It is first time that some ACMA is joinning my hand to defend ACMA's. See topic I wrote entitled as ACMA's vs CA's I was alone to defeat ICMA. Hope you will remain with me.

Regards,

Awais Aftab

[tariqsohail]

Good struggle Mr. Awais.

[acer]

Awias.. i have no intention of putting fire on oil or spreading hatred. so don't be judgmental on someones character.
as you people have mention in detail the scope of icma's than why is it that organizations do not prefer management accountants. as one of you said 'what an mba knows'. mba's are not trained to be accountants they are taught to be business managers. many mba are holding good positions in banks and other sector. it depends from where u have done ur masters and that dictates your salary and position. i have even seen icma grads getting 20k-25k and not even doing their core jobs. this is debatable so i will not get into much detail.
the thing i want to know is which sector mostly absorbs the icmas's and is there any problem in getting jobs after graduation? is any icma from this forum currently working in any organization?

[awaisaftab]

Dear Acer in my last post I used some Harsh and bitter sentences. Yar in fact I have very serious and some how spirtual affection with ICMAP. so pl do not mind. Remember that there is nothing personal between us. I think you have most friendly relations with me then any other member of the forum.
But the point that tease me is that why M.B.A's compare them with ACMA's? ICMAP is the member of International Federation of Accountants our one member Mr. Arif Nara,FCMA, is the most important member of International Accounting Standard Board. So there is no compersion between MBA's and ACMA's with reference to the field of accounts and finance and I have seen many MBA's who earn good salaries in different fields related to general management such as marketing,HR,PR and admin.
Why MBA's do not compare themselves with CA's . MBA's often raise questions about the equvalent status of ACMA's and some MBA's have the view that a person who passes 3 or 4 stages of ICMA should not be treated to MBA or M.Com. Why they do not raise such types questions about CA's? ACMA's get admission in ICMA after GRADUATION while CA's start CA just after INTER. So if a CA Intrer with only academic qualification of intermediate (I.COM,F.SC,F.A) can be treated as equal to MBA why an ACMA Inter who has completed 16 year of education can not be considered equal to masters.

As far as you last question is concerned, I am workign with a logistics company on a senior positions. It is my new job before it I was working with Midas Communications as Accounts Manager. It is the 2nd largest advertising company of Pakistan.

Cheers

Regards,

Awais Aftab.

[awaisaftab]

Retarded

I have sent you an e-mail read it. To read my opinion about academic qualifications read my post ACMA's CA's and Equivalent Academic Qaulification.
See following links

http//www.fpsc.gov.pk/icms/admin/webpages/docs/Education.pdf

Some time CA and ACMA are also considered eqaul to M.Phil see following link of HEC


http//beta.hec.gov.pk/InsideHEC/Divisions/HRD/ForeignDonorFundedPrograms/APSPPHDSA/Documents/1605_hec-ausaid-application-form-07.pdf


http//www.pakistan.gov.pk/divisions/petroleum-division/jobs/current/Jobs110707.pdf

I know very well know the difference between degree and certificate see following link to view my opinion

http//www.accountancy.com.pk/forum/topic.asp?topic_id=8100

[awaisaftab]

You are right my view is that equal qualfication status should assign to ACMA's and CA's. Currently only for the purpose of accounts related jobs ACMA Inter and CA Inter are considered equal to masters. Read my Topic as refered above.

By the way tum ko mujh se itni dilchaspy qun ha.


Regards,

Awais Aftab

[awaisaftab]

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, san" id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by retarded</i>
<br />Dear Awais.... Neither CMA nor CA is equivalent to Masters i am talking about fully qualified Chartered Accountant and a Cost and Management Accountant....
These are certifications and not academic qualifications ....
Worth of ACMA & CA is more than MBA & other masters but on the basis of this worth , one can never treat these certificates equal to masters....
If any one is comparing ACMA with MBA then let them do so ..... they are wrong but you are too, who is treating ACMA & CA inter equal to Masters ...... could u provide any proof ? they are post graduates & not more than that !!!!! jazbati honay say pehlay koi proof la kar dena , aisay he khali peeli koi bat mat kaha karoo dada sign[p]

aur aik bat , tum to baray jazbati niklay yar ICMA k mamlay may [p]
Mana k tumhay icma say pyar hai lakin ab aisa bhe nahi k tum 2003 say ab tak icma complete nahi kar pa rahay, jis cheez say pyar hota hai usay insan hasil kar leta hai lakin tum kia kar rahay ho beeru[8D][?]

tumhare progress say lag raha hai abhe bhe tum 2 sal aur loge kyun k i think tumharay abhe bhe 8 papers baqi hain [V]
am i right??????????????

[8D]

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

For your kind information only five papers of my ICMA are remaining and I have a complete plan to complete ICMA upto July of next year. You searched my result from ICMA web site because I display my original name adn city. Registration number of ICMA show the year of registration of student and you determined in the light of incomplete information that I have to pass 8 papers ,it is totally wrong.

You want to prove that I am a bad students and my performace is below than average. To eliminate your misconception I disclosing my personal information.

I have been in job since july 2006 and beside it I have completed M.A (Ecnomics)from Punjab University. Although I registered with the ICMAP in 2003 but first time I appeared in examinations of summer 2004. Although I have an association of about 6 years with ICMA but during the same period I was doing job (Have job experience of more than 3 years) and I also did my M.A (Eco) in December 2005 in first attempt with good second division.
An average student take 5 year to pass ICMA and only 2 to 3 per cent people pass ICMA in actual time that is 3 years

I am totally satisfied with my performance,professional qualification, academic qualification, job experience, salary,life style and professional life. I am thankful to Allah that HE has blessed me with such blessings.

So please do not worry about me and concentrate on your studies.

Jo huwwa so huwa I forgive and pray for your success.

Regards,

Awais Aftab

[awaisaftab]

I did not want to disclose my personal information but to clear my position I did it.
Mujh ko choro tum apna batao k tumhare kitne paper rehte hain Aur han roze main jhoot nhn bolte main apni position wazay ker chuka hun. .Tum is ko jhoot samjho ya sach meri sehat pe koyee farq nhn parta.