See what your beloved future leaders do!

[Shahbaz]

Rahi baat darhi ki to kuch points ye bhi dekh lein
• Deen mein poora poora shamil honay ka hokum hai na k aadha ya pona. Iski example aisay de sakta hoon k kia aap qualified kehlaeingay agar aap ne CA k module E tak positions lii hon magar Module F mein admission tak nahee lia ho? Issi tarha sunnaton ka bhi maamla hai. Hadith hai k “tum mein se koi us waqt tak momin nahee jab tak k Mein(PBUH) tumhein apnay maa baap, maal aur aulaad se zyaada pyaraa na ho jaoon.” Pyara honay ka matlab ye hai k unki har sunnat ko apna lo. Bathroom mein jatay hoye dua parhna aur left foot ko pehlay rakhna bhi sunnat hai. Farigh bethay ho to Allah ka ziker karna bhi sunnat hai. Ussi tarha Rasool Allah SAW ka chehra apnaana bhi sunnat hai. Islam insaan ko best bannay ki targheeb deta hai. Aur chehron mein sab se best Rasool Allah SAW ka chehra e Mubarak hai to hum usko kyun nahee apnaatay? Aisi kia sharam aur kia wajah hai k mohabbat hi khatam ho jati hai aisay maamlon mein?
• Dr Israr Ahmad ka aik biyan sun raha tha mein kuch arsay pehlay us mein unhon ne kaha tha k us shakhs ka quran pe koi eeman nahee jo uski haram ki hoi aik cheez ko bhi khud pe halaal karta hai. Zara socho k Quran mein hi hai k Obey Allah and HIS Messenger PBUH. Kia hum darhi na rakh k di***ey nahee kar rahay Rasool Allah SAW ko jab k hadiths bhi hein k Rasool Allah SAW ordered us to clip the mustache and grow the beard. Kia waqai hamara eemaan hai quran aur hadith pe? Think about it! Ye koi debate nahee k haar jeet ka chakkar hai. Mein sirf wo baat keh raha hoon jo Quran o Hadith mein hai. Agar maan leingay to aap ki apni bhalai hai warna mera kuch nahee bigarna.
• Aap ne kaha k clean shave log bhi hein aisay jo darhi walon se acha kaam kar gaye like Quaid e Azam or Liaquat Ali Khan. Lekin mera sawal ye hai bhai k kia aap k RAB ne aap ko Muhammad Ali Jinaah ko follow karnay ka hokum dia hai Quran mein ya Muhammad ur Rasool Allah SAW ko follow karnay ka hokum dia hai? Answer aap ko mil jana chahiye.

Regards,

Syed Muhammad Shahbaz

[Shahbaz]

Aik aur baat kehta chaloon. Last Jumma Khutbay mein Imaam Sahab farma rahay thay k Rasool Allah SAW k daur mein jab koi MUSLIM beghair darhi k Rasool Allah SAW k samnay aata tha to wo us se muun phair letay thay. bas itna soch lein k yehi cheez roz-e-aakhirat mein ho gai to kahan jayengay? shifa'at ki umeed rakheingay kaisay? [)]

[Muhammad Amir]

YAR TUM TO AISY SAMAJH RAHAY HOO KAY JEAISY KHUDANA KHWASTA YA TO MAIN MAJUSI HOON YA MAY JIN LOGON KO SUPPORT KAR RAHA HOON WOH DEEN-E-ISLAM SAY DARHI NA RKHNAY KIA WAJ SAY KHARIJ HOO GAI HANN.

I am once again saying that there is no compromise on any sunnah, increasing beard is the order of Rassol Allah(Salalahu-Alih-e-Waslam) whoever repudiate this order will be answerable to Allah(S.W.T). However, we should support people who support jehad irrespective of their "ZAHIRI SHAKL-O-SORAT(Kyun kay yeh unka aur un kay rab ka mamla hay!)"

[Shahbaz]

[)]

[kamranACA]

Dears,


It had been a nice chat. I just read it.

As far as army generals are concerned, these are the most corrupt people and their history speaks about them. Some one should go to Islamabad and ask common citizens (most of them would be knowing) about how the daughter of Gen. Hameed Gul used the power of his father to extend and establish her transport business. Hameed Gul could not correct his own childern then what should the others expect from him.

One institute has been discussed by Amir with great hopes. It has very confidential duties, and I personally feel it's handling/doing more regional or political or strategic things than the Islamic ones. Notwithstanding its strategic role (which it may be playing effectively), I don't have any doubt that it is one of the most effectively corrupt institution of Pakistan simply like army. I need not to go into details.

Gen. Javed Nasir. Mashallah. What should I say about him. He has his own thoughts, although he speaks well. Once in a tv programme he said he supports this idea and wants India to allow Pakistani Tableeghis to visit India for Tableeghi purposes. TV anchorperson asked him what if same request be placed by India to Pakistan for the visit of Hindu or Sikh preachers. Out upon the logic of Gen Nasir. He replied, this issue does not arise as hindu or sikh relgions don't have preachers. What one can comment on this illiterate response of Gen. Nasir. By the way there are so many allegations on Gen. Nasir as well. These were briefly discussed in that TV programme.

We can discuss each and every Amir quoted generals. This is not to find out pitfalls in others. I may personally have so many shortcomings. Rather this is just to tell that such Gen.s are not the hope of our nation. They had been the most corrupt and most of them still have same mindset. Pakistani people feel every one the expected/awaited Salah-ud-Din Ayubi. This is our main de-merit.

I don't say that Jehad Bis-saif (Naoozbillah) should not be done. But I firmly believe that this Jehad is Jehad-e-Asghar. We normally never think on doing Jehad-e-Akber. My question is, do we feel only Jehad Bis-Saif is a Jehad? I could not find any one concentrating and advising on that other Jehad as well which is in fact the most needed at this moment. Our moral values have been destroyed to such extent that I cannot even give its short picture by writing down posts on this forum.

The people who want the things destructed (without any reason) are the enemies of humanity, religion, nobality and peace. Talibans, and now the by-products of Talibans like Lashkar-e-Islam and Ansar-ul-Islam are doing a great job in bringing bad name to Islam. Every one is a great muslim and doing the truthful Jehad. What can we do? I can give my smile if I wish to keep the things calm. )

Is there any doubt that they are not the criminals? Certainly there would be greatest doubts to certain class of people. I don't mind.

By the way what a mindfull thinking is to ask ISI to take the control of the government. Should I comment????????????????????

Shahbaz, do u need some other comments???? I mean on any other area?

Regards,



KAMRAN.

[Muhammad Amir]

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Tahoma, Arial" id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">The people who want the things destructed (without any reason) are the enemies of humanity, religion, nobality and peace. Talibans, and now the by-products of Talibans like Lashkar-e-Islam and Ansar-ul-Islam are doing a great job in bringing bad name to Islam<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

You are once again speaking very loudly about the things that you don't know. Do you know about the reality of Ansarul Islam and Lashkar-e-Islam(I bet you don't even know about their abcd!). For your kind information whatever media is talking about them is 100% wrong and I was just surprised when I saw in BBC website and in the article published in The News. They said that Lashkar-e-Islam is Salafi group whereas Ansar-ul-Islam is from brelvi sect. Now, what can I say about these informed media groups, they even don't know about correct placings of these groups. First of all Lashkar-e-Islam is not a slafi group(it is hanafi panjperi group) and Ansar-ul-Islam is an astryed and criminal group(Followers of Peer Saif-ur-Rehman[biggest criminal]) this group is involved in ransonms, conducting a merriage between males and other crimes.

Cmdr Mangal Bagh is the hero of Khyber Agency. He is doing jehad against the enemies of islam and criminals who are involved in drug traficking and in ransoms.

As far as Jehad is concerned, yes we need to first fight against our nafas and then we can proceed towards Bis-Saif. But it does not mean that we should left it.

As far as you allegtions on Uzma Gul is concerned I think you have no right to allege her unless you have a clear evidence. And remember "Bohtan Tarashe" say allah ko bari nafrat hay.

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Tahoma, Arial" id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">TV anchorperson asked him what if same request be placed by India to Pakistan for the visit of Hindu or Sikh preachers. Out upon the logic of Gen Nasir. He replied, this issue does not arise as hindu or sikh relgions don't have preachers.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Again you can't understand this fact because you do not have any knowledge of these matters. Hindu religion is not a Dawati religion(same as Jewism) and they do not have any preeching orginsation.



I request you to please stop writing on matters that are out of your knowledge.

[Pracs]

Amir,

I am more of a casual reader at this forum these days, but after having read your latest post above, all I can say is that despite the good amount of time you have been posting here, little has changed in your logic or your counter argument, perhaps if you'd read Kamran's post more closely you'd realise the formulation of logic followed by facts. The way you come to your posts is hitting out with facts (mostly unfounded and biased) with no string of logic or productive chain of thoughts. I am not commenting on the contents of your claims.

But let me correct your mislaid notion that Hindus do not propogate their religion, in UK there is a growing number of 'White' converts to Hiduism and Buddhism with some temples run by White Hindus. Don't be naive, and I do not know the person being refered to but I think we should live Indian Muslims to do Da'wah to their country men, there are enough Indian Muslims to do that, we've already made a huge mess in Afghanistan, lets be worried about our own country. Being a good muslim is not just about prostating before God five times a day, its more than that, its beyond that. Justice, eradication of poverty, provision of health and other facilities are the hall mark of a good muslim society. Lets get that in order first and then think about 'converting the world'

[kamranACA]

Dears (specially Amir),


Whatever these Laskhar / Ansar are, these are the by-product of terrorist, rude, and stubborn thinking which in aggregate is now-a-days referred as Talibanization. This doesn’t refer to any sect of Islam in particular. These are basically the affected minds which cannot understand anything except their own thought. Do you see heavy ammunition used by them for the war of muslims against muslims. Where that Hadith will go which declared that both such men (who were quarrelling with each other with the intent to kill the opponent) are JAHANUMI. Do you feel those were not muslims for which we have a Hadith, being referred by me. Should I prove that those were muslims? I don't know what the criteria you have to define a man as hero of muslims. ) At least such stuff is not a hero for people like us. You can utter whatever you like as a reaction.

One of other example is of your HERO General Abbasi who tried to institute war against govt in Benazir tenure. His case has certain other unique attributes. Do you know what that dumb tried to do? He assessed he can do what he desires with a few 7mm rifles and other miserable ammunition. First of all an attempt for eliminating a govt is just a rebel act and its punishment should have been the death sentence. He probably faced some punishment / court martial (which I don't know in detail) and was released. I wonder on his mindset specially his assessment about getting control of the state with few fellows and a small quantity of riffles and ammunition. In fact this mindset prevails in all Talbanized people. They refer it as strength of their faith while Ahaadees-e-Mubarika clearly guide otherwise. I wonder where this faith would be leading us to.

As per my info, Islam does not allow doing such things when there is a muslim govt in the state. These people never showed honor for the state. Their basics are wrong and this mistake started from the very outset of Pakistan's history when the terms of attachment (of tribal people) with Pakistan were settled. These were even against the basic concept of Muslim state given by the era of Hazrat Umer Raziallah and rest of eras of Khulfaa-e-Rashideen (Raziallah Unhuma) when an organized muslim state was founded. Still Govt had been honoring what was agreed. But they always cause the govt to intervene. Now just see the dead bodies of 20plus FC men who were recently killed by such minds. Just see the recent statement of Bait-ullah-Mahsood who ordered the NWFP govt to resign. Mashallah. This defines his mental capacity.

Amir in fact has a habit to get into a long debate and at the end to conclude that he in fact agrees to the core points with the others. This is basically agreeing to not-to-agree sort of thing whereby in the end debate ends up with no gains no losses. Anyways, we can't change each others' habits. I may have some objectionable as well.

What I feel, this is basically a time of reconciliation and progressing. To start with it we have to do Jehad-e-Akber first of all. Whatever PRACS has very rightly pointed out in above post is covered under various facets of Jehad-e-Akber. Whoever will try to do Jehad-e-Asghar without correcting his-self and the society (by correcting individual-selves) as a whole will probably not do anything except causing mass destruction. And this is exactly what such minds are doing. Let them do and keep on seeing. I guess this generation will die seeing them and next generations will die seeing them and no one will witness any gains out of it from generations to generations except such destruction and killing of muslims by the hands of muslims. If some one will quote here the example of division of USSR it would be a foolish quotation.

In nutshell, I must say that if some one really wants the improvement and privileged future positioning for muslims in this global world he has to adopt some different methodology. We will never get any benefit unless we cause two fruits to ripe. One is technical, educational, economic and financial empowerment / progress and the other is the character building of the generations coming to replace us. If some one feels that we would be in some advantageous future positioning by doing illiterate wild militant activities, he is destroying his future and the future of his nation by his own hands. We are seeing it since decades and we would be keep on seeing it, if it is not corrected.


Regards,



KAMRAN

[Muhammad Amir]

Dear Mr Kamran ACA, I have never agreed with you on your obscene propaganda against Taliban and Mujahedeen, however, I have always appreciated you on your statements for educational and technical reformation in Islamic countries. Moreover, I have always said that Taliban are not masomeen and there can be in fact there are some wrong policies adopted by them but still they are more powerful and truthful defenders of islam like Salah-ud-deen Ayuebi, Noor-ud-deen Zangi, Imam Ibn-e-Taimia and others(Rehmatullah-e-Allihim). Our prophet Hazrat Muhammad(Slallahu-alih-e-Wasallam) once said that If you see any thing wrong in islamic society stop it by your hands, if not then stop it by your words, even if you have no power to do so then at least consider it as wrong and this is the last stage of e'man(i.e. belief). The details for first stage (i.e. stopple by hands) are that it can only be done by a proper organization in the leadership of Ameer and he should actually be authorized by muslim government to do so it is a task of government not a common man but for this a leader of government should be a muslim not a communist. I think these details are enough for you in order to understand the legitimacy of commander mangal bagh's actions.

As far as Major General Zaheer-ul-Islam Abbasi and his plan to over take Benazir's regime is concerned I think his attempt was good and workable but again we have some meers in us as we always have, they always do what one mir did at maesoor and other at bengaal. These defectors are always become hurdle in reformation of Islamic system.

I have seen people who always point that Taliban are barbaric because they are slitting the throats, they are killing common people (who are in fact the spies of America and defectors) and they are committing suicidal attacks but they never see the barbarism of American forces on them nor they see the bombing of Pakistani forces on innocent tribes nor they see the missile attacks of American forces in WANA and in BAJOUR nor they see the usage of heavy ammunition on innocent tribes (i.e. women and children, a recent incident of nooristan has been featured in press). Those who are aware of Pashtoonvali can consider the reaction of these acts. These were the same Taliban who were used to be the front line defenders of Pakistani borders, they were these people who killed so many Indian Spies of Research and Analysis Wing in Afghanistan, they were these people who after the withdrawal of Russian forces brought peace to their homeland, they were these people who after the withdrawal of Russian forces give cheap and swift justice to their people, they were these mullahs who have almost killed the major warlords in Afghanistan including the infidel ahmed shah masood and his northern alliance, they were these people who have almost demolished the whole opium crop in Afghanistan during their shria ruling and mind it opium was the only lucrative business in Afghanistan at that time and remember this was the same time when UNO imposed the ban on Afghanistan, they were these mullahs who took actions against smugglers of opium and kidnappers of innocent tribes. Taliban were never a cultured and sophisticated movement because most of them come from the poor background and this is not a great shock to anyone but they did restore law and order in Afghanistan and they did substantially reduce the cultivation of Opium.

I am not against the financial, economic, educational and technical reformation but we have to follow the foot prints of our AKABEREEN they were also not against these improvements but jehad is the most privileged thing amongst themselves.

You have labeled "JEHAD" as "a wild militant activity" in your above post, now I can consider where your roots are. Please stop this naked and obscene propaganda against "Hurriat Pasands" if you can't support them morally then at least refrain yourself from delivering these sordid statements.

Kafir ho to shamsheer pay karta hay bharoosa
Momin ho to bey taigh bhe larta hay sepaahe

Read this article of Pak Tribune, this is the reason why tribal areas are burning.

http//www.paktribune.com/news/index.shtml?182574

[Shahbaz]

@Amir bhai

yaar mein ye shair add karnay wala tha apnay signature mein. / chalo koi baat nahee.

[kamranACA]

Dear Amir,


One must have the ability to understand the difference between Jahad and wild militant activity. We cannot in fact support the wild militants whilst Jehad is a duty of muslims. I don't care to define the roots, in particular, of those who cannot differentiate it.

It had always been a poor eyesight of the muslim leaders that they typically fail to find out MEERS among their own-selves. A short sighted leader has to face its consequences. Like-wise his nation also does the same. This has to be the ground reality irrespective of however good character and faith such leader or nation do possess. A major part of the planning made by such historical leaders proved to be futile, if we analyze the history, and this shows the short sightedness and nothing else. I personally guess it a big fault of such leaders/nation instead of continuingly imposing allegations on such MEERS. MEERS are MEERS and this should have been focused, assessed and fixed beforehand. If some leaders had been facing such Meers this does not show innocence, strength, bravery or merit of such leaders. Of course it is a different way to think and analyze the situations and you may not understand my version.

Most probably, the Hadees which you quoted above regarding something wrong in ISLAMIC SOCIETY was not restricted to ISLAMIC SOCIETY only. It was a generalized guideline. You need to think on it to find out what was desired. In fact the thing which was desired cannot be achieved without having a powerful economic, social, educational, financial and technical base. We have to see all the guidelines altogether and any isolated analysis will lead to wrong conclusions. The guidelines such as to always keeping the HORSES AND AMUNITION ready for Jehad and going to (even) CHINA for getting education and technology are the other aspects which cannot be ignored if we really want to implement what was in fact desired. By the way, USA and other advanced ones are indirectly following such guidelines for their own purposes which are of course only for their own security, empowerment and benefit and has inverse affect on muslims. They are stopping us by hand for whatever they feel odd and also to find out their benefits. Now to feel what is wrong and what is right is really different for each mindset and nation. So, I feel that whoever will follow the whole set of guidelines given to muslims will achieve the targets which were basically desired for muslims. This is just like a scientific formula. If we cannot understand it, its our fault.

Declaring anyone as non-muslim or kaafir (without Ijamah-e-Ummat) is our dilemma. When you will call some one as kaafir (as you said about those who are in govt), he will in return call you Kaafir. Then who would be the muslim? Every muslim would be naoozbillah kaafir for the other muslim. This is what actually happening this moment leading every one to pick the ammunition against the other. Hadees guides that don't abuse the untrue gods of kuffaar becoz in return they will abuse your true God. I don't understand to which destination this mullah mindset is directly the muslim nation.

I can understand that people like you can easily believe that Gen Abbasi was capable of doing what he was planning to do. Allama Muhammad Iqbal, the poet of the east, was a great scholar and researcher. He gave so many unique ideas to muslim nation of the east. In such capacity he is our leader. Still, as a person, he was a common man and he carried the character of a common man. If you doubt, you should learn about his life. I know so many of us believe him a Waliallah which he was not probably. It is not necessary that whatever he has said would be correct.

I agree that MOMAN CAN FIGHT WITHOUT A SWORD but this would result in his shahaadat and success would probably be an un-accessed dream. We cannot quote example of Ghazva-e-Badar for proving to the contrary, that was a special event where Prophet PBUH was personally participating the Jehad and even then the ratio of 313 against 1000 was not too much imbalanced. Further, it was an era of swords, sticks and arrows while now we have to face chemical weapons apart from atomic and traditional weapons. For dreaming the success, we should make ourselves up to it. I think there is no point in debating on it further. History is full of the incidents where “BEY TAIGH SIPAAHI” was killed and history never uttered his name even as a MOMAN. Being moman and non-moman remains another issue which finds its linkage with the paragraph 4 of this post of mine. I don’t discuss it here.

Talibaans used to bring some peace in the initial days and they also used to harmonize the systems to some extent. However their external and internal policies could not be proved to be wise, understandable, gently human and coping with the pace of the advanced world. PRACS has once analyzed it in detail and his analysis could be seen in some thread on this forum. Some of the good things cannot compensate for the majority of the wrong actions. I endorse whatever conclusions were drawn by PRACS in his analysis.

Thanks for sparing time to read my lengthy posts.

Regards,



KAMRAN.

[Muhammad Amir]

I know you can go to any limit to prove yourself as a more wise and knowledgeable person, after all you are a partner at some reputable audit firm and you need people to say "YES SIR" to you every time. So, for the achievement of your objective you can even become shameless in presenting "MAN GHARRAT" Ahadees like traveling towards china for education purposes(Mind it this is not a hadees at all!). Similarly, you have not even left Allama Iqbal(Rehmatullah-e-Allih) in blaming him for his poetry not only this but you also abused him by hitting his character(I can understand about your purpose for saying him as a common character man and this shows your hatred towards him). Furthermore, you have said that he was not a waliallah(I don't know about your purpose of passing such an absolute comment on him) but Allah knows better that who was and who wasn't Waliallah. Before making a mockery of Allama Iqbal (Rehmatullah-e-Allih) and his poetic words you first need to assess your ownself.


I have never declared any MUSLIM as KAFIR instead I used the word communist for the LEDER OF THE GOVERNMENT(i.e. President as per constitution) and if am not wrong then you can see the interviews of Perveze Mukhannus who have on the record said that he likes Kamal Attaturk as his ideal personality because of his communist version.

[kamranACA]

Dear Amir,


You have overflowed once again becoz something was not within the limits of your absrobption capacity. I can understand your problem. Such brim over is not out of apprehension.

If calling Allama Iqbal's character "a common man's character" is deemed to be an abuse then every common man should feel like abused when we will call him common man. Is not it? We all are common men. I don't know if you are something special in your own thought. I asked you to learn about the life of Allama Muhammad Iqbal. He, in his charater, was of course a common man. Have a meeting with his son (Mr. Javed Iqbal) or his grandson/nawasa (Sheikh Salli, a renowned kite flyer of Lahore) and conduct a detailed interview on personal life of their father/grandfather. I said personal life. Mind it. Yes, he was a great scholar and poet in other capacity. This is your basic problem. You give every one (liked by you) such sort of DARJA that your mind stops thinking. What any body else can do for you?

Like ever, once again your mind and eyes left working for you. Contrary to what you have pointed out, I no where gave any absolute statement that Iqbal was not waliallah. Rather I said

"I know so many of us believe him a Waliallah which he was not probably."

I don't know why your eyes did not see the word PROBABLY. This "probably" was only to show a mild feling of mine based upon study of his personal life. People may have different perceptions about others. There is no compulsion in following any one's own ideas.

You may do if you feel like denying true Ahaadees for your own purposes. Consult seven true books of Ahadees and you will find the Hadees quoted by me. It is also known to public at large in general. Becoz your companions are against the education in general and females' education in particular and basicaly are illetrate at their own, therefore, you people may not understand it.

I was probably not so educated to differentiate between COMMUNIST and KAAFIR. I am sorry my dear. ) He said he likes Kamal Attaturk but he no where said that he likes him due to communist thoughts. Whatever somebody's version is, if he is not decalred KAAFIR by IJMAH_E_UMMAT, calling him communist or kaafir is not a valid act. Yes if you have grouses and have reasons to say like this, it would be more appropriate to say that some one is a muslim but is even bad than non-muslims. Rest is up to you. I just pointed out a collusion of basic thoughts.

Thank you for reading my post.

Regards,



KAMRAN.

[kamranACA]

Dear Amir,


You have overflowed once again becoz something was not within the limits of your absrobption capacity. I can understand your problem. Such brim over is not out of apprehension.

If calling Allama Iqbal's character "a common man's character" is deemed to be an abuse then every common man should feel like abused when we will call him common man. Is not it? We all are common men. I don't know if you are something special in your own thought. I asked you to learn about the life of Allama Muhammad Iqbal. He, in his charater, was of course a common man. Have a meeting with his son (Mr. Javed Iqbal) or his grandson/nawasa (Sheikh Salli, a renowned kite flyer of Lahore) and conduct a detailed interview on personal life of their father/grandfather. I said personal life. Mind it. Yes, he was a great scholar and poet in other capacity. This is your basic problem. You give every one (liked by you) such sort of DARJA that your mind stops thinking. What any body else can do for you?

Like ever, once again your mind and eyes left working for you. Contrary to what you have pointed out, I no where gave any absolute statement that Iqbal was not waliallah. Rather I said

"I know so many of us believe him a Waliallah which he was not probably."

I don't know why your eyes did not see the word PROBABLY. This "probably" was only to show a mild feling of mine based upon study of his personal life. People may have different perceptions about others. There is no compulsion in following any one's own ideas.

You may do if you feel like denying true Ahaadees for your own purposes. Consult seven true books of Ahadees and you will find the Hadees quoted by me. It is also known to public at large in general. Becoz your companions are against the education in general and females' education in particular and basicaly are illetrate at their own, therefore, you people may not understand it.

I was probably not so educated to differentiate between COMMUNIST and KAAFIR. I am sorry my dear. ) He said he likes Kamal Attaturk but he no where said that he likes him due to communist thoughts. Whatever somebody's version is, if he is not decalred KAAFIR by IJMAH_E_UMMAT, calling him communist or kaafir is not a valid act. Yes if you have grouses and have reasons to say like this, it would be more appropriate to say that some one is a muslim but is even bad than non-muslims. Rest is up to you. I just pointed out a collusion of basic thoughts.

Thank you for reading my post.

Regards,



KAMRAN.

[Muhammad Amir]

Well, my dearest brother can you please quote the hadees reference regarding traveling towards "CHINA" from any book in "Seha-e-Setta". I would appreciate your reply and please accept my thanks in advance.

As far as Javid Iqbal is concerned, I think it is useless to tell you that I alhmadulillah know about him more than you and I know for whose interests he is working in Pakistan. Furthermore, the way he portrays Allama Iqbal(Rehmatullah-e-Allih) in his articles and divide his poetic life in two distinct versions is again for the interests of those forces who like him to do so. He repeatedly denies Allama's spiritual affiliations with Ulema and Tehreek-e-Khilaafat. Furthermore, he said lot of time in print and electronic media that Allama Iqbal never envisioned the creation of Pakistan as a base for a particular brand of religion. He uses his lot of energy in rebutting the ideology of Pakistan by saying that Allama always think about the creation of secular Pakistan.

You always try to play with words in fact some times you get success but it is difficult to play successfully every time. Go and read your post once again. Those who read your posts are not jugglers and most of them can understand the hatred feelings behind words.

For your convenience I am quoting here your own words.

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Tahoma, Arial" id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"> <b>Still, as a person, he was a common man and <u>he carried the character of a common man</u>. If you doubt, you should learn about his life. <u>I know so many of us believe him a Waliallah which he was not probably.</u></b> <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Now, please don't try to become over smart by giving void justifications.

I/We are not against <b>women education and work</b> as long as it has been obtained under shariah rulings. There should be a proper system for working women(i.e. short duty hours, separate working rooms or at least separate desks, separate messes, Company provided transportation services, a strong control over male colleagues, in case of infringement of women's rights there should be heavy penalties over male colleagues). Now, as far as so called "Women Empowerment Networks" who are working in the guise of NGOs are concerned we should beware of their evil objectives. In my personal opinion current conditions of pakistani people(i.e. Men) does not allow any women to work out side(I hope you can understand what I am saying as you are also a "HAZIR SERVICE" Working Man [I] and you probably have an experience of observing such type of people[Men]).

And please try to restrain yourself from throwing mud on people by anticipating them as your enemies in fact they are not your enemies, they can be your friends if you restrict your differences to the extent of difference of opinion only, not the cold war.