Something New Is Coming In CA

VITAL · 06-26-2010, 05:27 AM

if ICAP has the ability to develop world class curriculum then why it has not been able to do that. SO far they only published IASB, IFAC pronouncements and GRIPPING IFRS. Shani ICAEW has world class system. They are the benchmark. By adopting their system we get international recognition that we desrve. Copying is not right word to use because our laws and regulatios and subjects related to them will remain the same. we still use IFRSs , ISAs etc. Improvement is needed in study material and to keep it in accordance with international standards where ICAEW is the benchmark.

ICAEW is not that type of institute which gives exemptions on basis of power of bargaining

shani420 · 06-26-2010, 05:49 AM

Vital If it happens then it would be beneficial for ACCAs like me to pass CA(ICAP) with ICAEW course as compared to old course of CA.
Mate ICAEW has awarded 12 exemptions to Bangladeshi CA(ICAB) which is a low profile institute(In 2008 they asked ICAEW to help them develop accountancy profession and course in Bangladesh) and after some time and negotiations they awarded them 12 exemptions(though they helped them improve a bit).

noman · 06-26-2010, 06:18 AM

why not CPA??

VITAL · 06-26-2010, 06:19 AM

who says ICAP has old course?

new revised and redrafted standards of IAASB has already started to examine. we have to respond to accounting, tax , corporate laws papers according to latest respective versions.

I never say in my whole discussion that new developments are necessary because we are following old procedures. never never. to attach a word "old" to ICAP is a crime for me, my dear.

VITAL · 06-26-2010, 06:32 AM

if it will be beneficial for you Shani so pray for it.

i donot know these mutual exemptions. i want to do CA ICAP and I want to see it of the level of CA ICAEW.

arsenal.gooner · 06-26-2010, 07:18 AM

well in my view, ICAP does not have the guts to give ACCAs the same level of exemptions as is offered by ICAEW and therefore, there decision to adopt the curriculum (or copy should i say) of ICAEW is some what dubious.

arsenal.gooner · 06-26-2010, 07:24 AM

<blockquote id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by kamranACA
 

One further thing, although I believe that there should be no regional or economic barriers on education, knowledge and qualification, yet I feel the position of ACCA is going to be further tightened locally in coming days. Don't take it negatively please. It's merely an assessment, rather, prediction.

Let's see what future comes up with. Hope for the best.

Regards,

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

bas ICAP ko isi baat ki pari hai k ACCAs ko market se kaisay nikala jaaye. (kamran bhai, plz dont start a meaningless debate)

shani420 · 06-26-2010, 11:50 AM

<blockquote id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by VITAL
 who says ICAP has old course?

new revised and redrafted standards of IAASB has already started to examine. we have to respond to accounting, tax , corporate laws papers according to latest respective versions.

I never say in my whole discussion that new developments are necessary because we are following old procedures. never never. to attach a word "old" to ICAP is a crime for me, my dear.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I should have used the word "current" instead of "old"(which I really meant."old" gave it wrong perception).Icap continuously updates its course.There have been many structrual changes in the past.It is a good institute.I still maintain that they should prepare their own new and well defined curriculum.It is acceptable for those(African and some other) countries which don't have well grown accountancy profession.Pakistan is not that backward.ICAP is a well rounded professional body.They may ask for ICAEW help but they should develop their own curriculum.

shani420 · 06-26-2010, 12:03 PM

<blockquote id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by noman
 why not CPA??
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
CPA (I think u r talking about US) has just 4 papers.Their basic requirement is 150 credit hours degree(some states accept 120 CH).It would not be practicable here as there r very few Pakistani who have honours degree and wish to start CA.Majority of the ICAP students come after Inter/graduate(Bcom).
Another reason could be that CPA hasn't have fully adopted IFRS yet.They r still using local US standards.It would be a hurdle as ICAP use IFRS.ICAP came into being with the help of CICA(Canada) but CICA has similar structure a degree then very few exams(vary from province to province in Canada) so it would also be impracticable.

shani420 · 06-26-2010, 12:15 PM

<blockquote id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by arsenal.gooner
 well in my view, ICAP does not have the guts to give ACCAs the same level of exemptions as is offered by ICAEW and therefore, there decision to adopt the curriculum (or copy should i say) of ICAEW is some what dubious.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
mate there r too many ACCAs in Pakistan so if ICAP allow 20 paper exemptions to them as they do to ICAEW then the membership number of ICAP will increase suddenly or would nearly double.

VITAL · 06-26-2010, 05:17 PM

arsnal.gooner answer the following questions

you think that ACCA has its own job market then why you want maximum exemptions from ICAP? why you not feel that your own qualification is sufficient?

why you feel that a single unilateral decision of ICAP will put ACCAs out of market. Is the market of ACCA dependent on ICAP?

CA ( whether current or improved ) will be sufficient for me. I dont want exemptions from anyone

arsenal.gooner · 06-26-2010, 06:04 PM

<blockquote id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by shani420
 <blockquote id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by arsenal.gooner
 well in my view, ICAP does not have the guts to give ACCAs the same level of exemptions as is offered by ICAEW and therefore, there decision to adopt the curriculum (or copy should i say) of ICAEW is some what dubious.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
mate there r too many ACCAs in Pakistan so if ICAP allow 20 paper exemptions to them as they do to ICAEW then the membership number of ICAP will increase suddenly or would nearly double.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

this was exactly my point.. the earlier exemptions of were also withdrawn due to this reason.

arsenal.gooner · 06-26-2010, 06:09 PM

<blockquote id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by VITAL
 arsnal.gooner answer the following questions

you think that ACCA has its own job market then why you want maximum exemptions from ICAP? why you not feel that your own qualification is sufficient?

why you feel that a single unilateral decision of ICAP will put ACCAs out of market. Is the market of ACCA dependent on ICAP?

CA ( whether current or improved ) will be sufficient for me. I dont want exemptions from anyone
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

VITAL, i have only given my opinion on what was being already discussed on this thread. i never said i wanted any exemptions or something like that. and anywayz, i was only commenting on what Mr. Kamran said. i dont care what ICAP does. but of course, if a debate doesnt involve the future of ACCAs in Pakistan on this forum, then it doesnt look to be "so called" proper intellectual debate.

VITAL, i am astound by the fact that you percieved what you did. It is baseless.

kamranACA · 06-26-2010, 07:54 PM

Buddies

There is no question of CA/ACCA debate on this thread and if it is started in that fashion it would again lead to same conclusions which have been reached far back in history with no significant change.

One point for Arsalan; buddy the thing which you don't understand or is disliked by you does not necessarily mean to be meaningless. Certainly it could have carried lots of meaning for others.

My point about tightening of ACCA position meant that if CA in Pak improves its syllabus structure and makes available relevant study material and learning tools, as people have been pointing out (my concurrence with slight reservation on it) then the general opinion about its stiffness would come to an end. Some of the people who currently are rushing to ACCA just for its easy to pass structure would definitely be revisiting their decision in coming days specially the majority of them would have seen the outcome of their effort after consuming 3-4 years by then.

On the contrary, ACCAs might have established a very good market by then (or vice versa), so, market demand or acceptability is not being discussed. Nothing in that measure is being compared. This thread is meant for discussing reforms in CA syllabus, entry of students and post reforms scenario etc. People claim that currently majority is opting ACCA considering CA a difficult venture (as said by VITAL). I said this position would be changed and this would tighten ACCA position i.e. its entry rate. Nothing is discussed as to what is better and what is not. Just a clarification.

By the way there is a presumed difference between "ACCA" and "ACCAs". You see I wrote "ACCA" and not "ACCAs" in my earlier post.

Anyway, opinions can differ largely and I am not intended to debate on it.

Shani and Vital,

There is nothing wrong in developing our own syllabus and/or adopting cent percent some international body's syllabus since both things have to address same underlying core material i.e. IFRSs, ISAs and similar pronouncements.

We are already very much on to it and you might not be knowing that in Pakistan except for IFRS-1 we are fully compliant to all other IFRSs and related interpretations, and this is the only country in the whole region that is compliant to such an extent. In ISAs, we are one of a few countries in the region that have adopted entire ISAs issued so far. The recently clarified/reformatted set of already adopted ISAs is also under discussion and would hopefully be notified shortly.

So Pakistan and its professionals are not behind any one when latest pronouncements and upfront adoption of such pronouncements comes under question.

As I said any of the approach (developing own Syllabus or adopting some well recognized syllabus) is fine; we know it; but might others not be knowing it in same depth or might they not be willing to know, specially because we have a low voice when number game comes into play. So, the later one will make it easy for others in the world to readily understand what we are doing and what we are teaching to our students. We will not be required to prove any point and nobody would be arguing on it. That's why I said it would be beneficial for students in future. Hikmat ke baat kahin say bhi mil jaaey usko lenay main kia problem hai?

At the same time we would not be losers at all since the adapted syllabus would be fully compliant to IFAC pronouncements; and for local legislation we will be following our own contents.

I discussed a reservation to something in earlier paragraphs. I feel reservation on the statement that it is ICAP's policies that create hardship for students to qualify. Brothers, it is not the case at all. Majority does not get merit to be admitted to engineering and medical as well; is it some issue of policies there as well? Majority does not qualify ISSB tests; what you will about it? In all contests majority does not gets through. So, I believe nothing can be measured by looking at the number of failures or the people who struggle for longer runs. In Pakistan even the passing rate for Matric is almost 40-45 percent (check various Board results for SSC and HSC). If you come to graduation level it would I guess be around 25-35 percent. Data needs to be checked. Yes, there is a valid point for shortage of exact relevant study material but it has nothing to do with examination policy. I personally feel that studying more than one book and exploring the ideas of many writers adds value and creates a difference among professionals, yet I agree this consumes much effort and could be a factor of difficulty. I hope these problems will also be getting resolved as a result of current reforms. However, whoever works hard gets qualified and there is no ambiguity in it. This is true for all fields of life. Rest assured.

Let's see how these all issues are addressed and how the expectations of students are met. I have learnt to remain positive for the future and I believe this always helps.

Regards,

VITAL · 06-26-2010, 08:15 PM

Arsenal I donot make this topic to discuss what you called the future of ACCA in this forum. The CA students are never interested in the extent of exemptions granted or will be granted to ACCA students. I am not interested in the ICAP policy regarding this whether past or future. We simply want improvements in our study material and simply want new developments in CA profession to meet the demands of what is happening around the world and will be happened. To achieve this we should follow relevent techniques of ICAEW (copy is not the right word) because ICAEW is the benchmark not only for ICAP but also for ACCA.Yes Kamran Bhai is right we are not behind. our examination policy is ok. problem lies in study material sorts of things.

I am waiting for something new that is beneficial for CA not the new affecting ACCA.
But unfortunately CA students turned mute spectators and I found myself in needless discussion with ACCAs. So plz donât start CA vs ACCA debate. Your ideas regarding the new developments will be welcomed.