ICAP humiliating itself

Pracs · 02-05-2009, 06:27 AM

<blockquote id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by MasudCA
 Dears

I must mention that it may be my final post as I found there are too many misconceptions in Pakistan and amongst Pakistani accountancy students and professional. I am not interested in any kind of debate and its my small effort to show people correct picture. Others have full right to disagree.

After reading posts on this forum it looks ICAP accountants says they are best in place in Pakistan which may or may not be true. Let first consider MOU between ICAEW and ICAP. Firstly I do not think terms of MOU are in favour of ICAP. I understand that ICAP signed this MOU so that ICAP accountant get global recognition as ICAP currently is not recognised outside Pakistan.

The main point is why ICAEW did not give much to ICAP. There could be three reasons. Firstly everyone knows that ICAP does not develop any of accounting standard(ICAP just developed one accounting on Islamic banking, I do not know if it is being used). On other hand Indian Institute does develop its own standard. Secondly ICAP just follow IASs almost 100%, which is not even IFAC requirements. Local institutes or bodies are allowed to make necessary changes in IASs so that they do not conflict with local laws. ICAP does not do it.

Thirdly ICAP policies are not based on any principle (sorry to say) as far as recognition of other qualifications are concerned, for example ACCA which is itself very big. ICAP first recognised ACCA qualification almost fully but after some years ICAP delist ACCA. All these things make ICAP case very weak when ICAP negotiate MRA or MOU with other institutes.

I think ICAP missed golden opportunity to get global recognition, in fact worked in opposite direction and made its own people against it. ICAP should have developed strategic alliance with ACCA in this way ICAP would get global recognition, would have increased its membership and would be in better position to negotiate MOU and MRA with other institutes.

See what Institute of Charted Accountant of Belize did, it has MRA with ACCA which make ACCA fully recognised Belize and ICAB members recognised all over world. Remember India and Belize economies are known as rising economies are much better than Pakistan (we should accept this).

If ICAP with have developed strategic alliance with ACCA then ICAP would not need ICAEW. But I am not sure if ACCA would be happy to sign strategic alliance with ICAP as ACCA members are very difficult to please nowadays because they are getting recognition in every country of the world for example Swaziland, Turkey etc.

ICAP accountants should know that at the end of day ICAEW and ACCA are same and both will help each other when time comes for ICAEW to choose ACCA or ICAP and for ACCA to choose ICAEW or ICAP. So ICAP needs to be careful other same thing will happen to ICAP what happen in Singapore and Malaysia.

Best Wishes
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Are you referring to the central American country - Belize

and are you joking, comparing Pakistan with Belize?
http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belize

You need to know the Pakistani accountancy and finance set up before you make all these conclusions. The standards Indians use are nothing more than a rehash of IFRS/IAS and that too several years behind.

Pracs · 02-05-2009, 07:20 AM

Fair enough, I reject it then. Just a correction there, this is not the reality its an opinion.

kamranACA · 02-06-2009, 02:20 PM

Dears,

In fact people don't know the facts and speak without proper basis. If some body was out of Pakistan from the age of 14 years, how could he know what is happening out there at Pakistan.

Indian chartered accountants, their institute and their locally developed standards, may be quite respectable but one cannot debate on them without giving a required deep look. IFAC no where necessarily asked not to follow IFRSs and prepare own standards. This objection is foolish in its essense. Further, the objection that IFRSs over-rule the local laws is also childish. There are certain dissimilarities (though very nominal) where local laws do over-ride the IFRSs. This is logical if one can understand.

This MOU "RAULA" which certain people are giggling at the moment, will hopefully come to lower nodes soon. The ones who said that ICAP's revision of ACCA's recognition is objectionable would be seen least commenting on ICAEW when it will change the MOU with Pakistan. This may, however, take some time.

Local standards and proouncements had been made from time to time for various entities and the one who says only one islamic standard was developed is not right. I just don't wnat to go at length for the ones who don't wnat to understand. I advise them to study what is the financial reporting framework for various entities at Pakistan.

Regards,

KAMRAN.

Pracs · 02-07-2009, 06:01 AM

Kamran, we have just had people waltzing in here and posting out any gibberish that comes to their mind. Ahh.. the wonders of the internet era.

I don't mind erratic opinions but this one's a little over board

sumairalam · 02-09-2009, 08:08 PM

I am very much astonished to see the email from MasudCA, really before joining this forum I never thought that there is so much conflict between ACCA or CA(ICAP) . I know many of us traveled or lived outside Pakistan , and they know that all professionals respect each others whether they are from Arab Association/ ACCA/ICAP or ICAEW.

For most of the new comers of this forum , I assure you that ICAP qualification is acceptable throughout the world and you will treat as a professional accountants at par with any other member from any Institute.

Only question is acceptance of your ICAP certificate by other institutes like CICA or ACCA or ICAEW, every institute has its own criteria and so as ICAP.

Its upto the student to chose the institute depending on his future plans , funds availability etc. And for getting the detailed guidance we can all refer to the posts made by Mr. Khalid or Mr. Kamran

I will share my personal experience , when i tried to enrolled in CPA program I came to know that they require 150/120 credit hours. ( normally for Pakistani applicant it is Masters from any recognized university) but at that time I didnt have even Bachelors degree . I sent the documents for evaluation on the basis of my BAC credit hour certificate and they accept it.

I am proud to attach with ICAP and have very much regards to ACCA for their betterment for the accounting / finance profession.

This post is getting longer but one think I must say to the students go for the best possible education according to each individual circumstances , but if chance arises for getting membership of other institutes get it also. It will not only increase your confidence but also your worth.

Best of Luck!

mroneflower · 02-10-2009, 07:09 AM

just to let ICAP people that ICAI(India) signed MRA with CPA(Aus) whereby ICAI(india) members need to pass only one paper of CPA(Aus) to become CPA(Aus) member and hence become auditor is Australia. This MRA is signed today and will be available on CPA(Aus) web site soon. Remember CAP(Aus) has MRA with CPA(USA).

For ICAI(India) and CPA(Aus) MRA click on link below

http//www.icai.org/post.html?post_id=3992&c_id=240

ICAI(India) is also negotiating MRA with CGA Canada and CA(New Zealand).

ICAEW members need to pass ICAI(India) 4 papers to become ICAI(India) member. For verification click on following link.

http//www.icai.org/resource_file/13961icai_icaew_c.pdf

Lets see what ICAP does.

Khalid

mroneflower · 02-10-2009, 07:11 AM

CIMA has also signed MRA with Institute of cost and works accountants of India(ICWI) in Feb 2009. Hope Pakistani accountant(especially ICAP) will be able to open their eyes, which is quite dificuult.

mroneflower · 02-10-2009, 08:00 AM

Dear sumairalam

Firstly MasudCA is not ACCA he is member of Institute of chartered Accountant of Scotland (ICAS) secondly whatever he said is true. Thirdly ICAP does not respect members of other institutes exculding ICAEW so ICAP does not deseve any respect and no one respect ICAP which is becoming more and more visible and one can see ICAP standing in the world even in Pakistan ACMAs have problem with ICAP. ICAP has also problem with CPA(Pak).

ICAP is not recognised anywhere outside pakistan. Till 1997 ICAP used to recognised ICAI(India) members who became ICAI(Idian) member by 1995 and I am not sure if it was verse versa. But Now this MRA does not exist anymore.If someone has ICAP booklet published in 1995 to 1997 then this could be checked. I have such ICAP booklet published in 1995 but it is not with me in London right now as I left it in Pakistan.

there i sno point in having two professional qualifications.

Khalid

kamranACA · 02-10-2009, 09:38 PM

Dears,

If there is no point in having two professional qualifications (which is a vague statement) then why one should be so concerned for ICAP when ICAI enters into MRAs with CGA or CPA (Aus)? Is it a professional concern for ACCAs? Or, some one's personal jealousy is speaking?

However, one should keep in mind that world has not come to an end. Hopefully!!!

Regards,

KAMRAN.

sumairalam · 02-10-2009, 10:16 PM

Dear Khalid,

As a member of professional body / or student you should respect all others accounting/finance/audit institutions as they are all working for the benefit of the profession , by merely not accepting one's qualification by others institute you cant say that one institute is not respectable.

Just like in UAE , when we meat local accountants , they proudly say they are the members of Arab Accounting Association, and they proud of it. I dont know accurately , but I dont think any of the other institute in the world knows about Arab Accounting Association, but they are working all over the world.

Further the statement that ICAP does not respect others Institutes or members of other institutes is totally wrong. There is no such incident happens in ICAP or by ICAP.

Further the recognition of ICAP outside Pakistan , please note that I joined organization in UAE on the basis of ICAP qualification, when my employer accepts my qualification it means that they are accepting ICAP. Mr. Asad Ali Shah President Institute of Chartered Accountants of Pakistan (ICAP) has been appointed as Member Board of International Federation of Accountants (IFAC) for the term 2008 â 2011.Mr. Shabbir Zaidi (ICAP) is the president of SAFA. If world doesnot recognizes ICAP then how come they are holding these positions.

Yes the ICAP has no reciprocal agreement with any of the institutes like CICA, CA(Aust) etc but it doesnt mean that they do not recognize ICAP, ICAP members and students can get exemptions from papers of these Institutes , by giving exemption to one paper means that they are recognizing, the matter is only upto what extent.

Now I will come to the Last point , did any of us ever think why ICAI is getting all these exemptions , this is not because of ICAI but the efforts of members and non-members of the institute, they portrays the ICAI as best Institute in the world having largest membership. Even if an indian accountant not member of ICAI but ACCA or others never dis-respect ICAI , but always proud of having institute like ICAI , even in professional talks they always refer to ICAI although they are not the members.

We all know that our country is having low literacy rates , low income and less opportunities and our students are struggling to get better education, we must salute our own institutes and always help them to grow whether it is ICAP, ICMA or PIPFA for providing world class education.

Mr. Khalid , I really respect you because of your professional knowledge and guidance you are providing to others students and members, but ICAP(ICMAP) is the one who teaches Pakistani about accountancy and professionalism. An engineer or doctor does not guide you about ICAEW or ACCA. Its ICAP(ICMAP) members or students who are given guidance to the students about ACCA or ICAEW. ACCA or ICAEW is having roots in Pakistan only because of ICAP(ICMAP).

Best Regards

mroneflower · 02-11-2009, 01:57 AM

Dear sumairalam

As far as ICMA members are concerned, I admit that they are high quality accountant and I ever said anything against ICMA members(ACMA). but sorry to say I do not agree with your point about ICAP, its very low level institute and producing low level accountant.

World will further see how imcompetent ICAP members are. I am not interested in any debate. I just wanted to inform this forum about new developmenet in accountancy world.

Thanks for your comments.

Khalid

faizee · 02-11-2009, 06:14 AM

Khalid i think it is better for you to leave this forum,i have never seen such an exaggerate person in my life i don't know what the hell ICAP has done with you that you are jealous with this institute so much.Although i damn care about it as there is no effect of your jealousness on ICAP neither now nor never.

Just concentrate on your studies inspite of such degrade remarks about ICAP on this professional forum.

mroneflower · 02-11-2009, 07:48 AM

<blockquote id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by faizee
 Khalid i think it is better for you to leave this forum,i have never seen such an exaggerate person in my life i don't know what the hell ICAP has done with you that you are jealous with this institute so much.Although i damn care about it as there is no effect of your jealousness on ICAP neither now nor never.

Just concentrate on your studies inspite of such degrade remarks about ICAP on this professional forum.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

thanks for advising me that I do need to study. I thought I finsihed study. Anyway Thanks, I will check again with my association if i am qualified or not.

Yes my comments will not have any effect on ICAP as no one recognise ICAP. To be degraded, ICAP need to have some garde/honour and market in irst place which ICAP lacks.

Khalid

Pracs · 02-11-2009, 08:04 AM

<blockquote id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by sumairalam
 Dear Khalid,
.........................
Now I will come to the Last point , did any of us ever think why ICAI is getting all these exemptions , this is not because of ICAI but the efforts of members and non-members of the institute, they portrays the ICAI as best Institute in the world having largest membership. Even if an indian accountant not member of ICAI but ACCA or others never dis-respect ICAI , but always proud of having institute like ICAI , even in professional talks they always refer to ICAI although they are not the members.
..................

Best Regards
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Sumairalam, you have the icing on the cake, well put. It is but a dilemma with us Pakistanis to bad mouth every thing Pakistani, especially when we are overseas. The problem with Khalid is he is Khalid, don't want to say any thing further... with the way he is going as he is .....

mroneflower · 02-11-2009, 09:18 AM

Read post number 19 on following link

http//www.accountancy.com.pk/forum/topic.asp?topic_id=6448