04-01-2010, 03:24 AM
Dears
First of all I would request to all posters to please contain themselves to reason, logic, and debate only. Though everyone is independent of my request.
I was abstaining from this thread as I have mentioned earlier about habit of our masses to tag others. It happened here too, and I think Greatkhan left this thread because of the same thing too.
Infact, I would say that origin of this thread also lies in our collective habit of tagging others, which as I have said earlier neither as ordinary muslim we should do nor any State Law permits. However, if any of us have any problem with anyone else, then there are proper ways to settle it like filing a case in proper Court of Law. Very unfortunately, the responsible people among us who should have tried to bring us together actually caused division among us. Eventual result is this mob mentality in which we are progressing with rapid rate.
Dear Awais, mujhay aapkay iss thread aur reason say pahlay din say ikhtilaaf hay. Agar aapko ya kissi aur ko Zaid Hamid say koi ikhtilaaf hay to ossay setlle karnay kay liay kia yah internet par defamation compaign chalana aur logon ko Islam kay naam par oksaana kia thik tariqa hay? Phir agar ossay koi kam aqal jaakar koi nuqsaan pohncha day to phir os kam aqal ko aap "Aashiq Rassool (SAW)" bana dain gay.
Bhai mayray main sirf time ki kami ki waja say detail main nahi jana chahta, magar aapkay oper poochay gay swalat ka jawab dayna koi mushkil nahi hay. Bhai mukhtasran main sirf itna kahna chahta hon kay jab aik aadmi nay "khatum-un-nabeen" ka khulay aam aitraaf kia hay to phir oskay eeman "faith" kay baray main shak ka izhar karna aik doosray musalman kayliay na dini lihaz say aur na dunyawi lihaz say thik hay.
Mazeed baat yah kay agar "Yousuf Ali" nay waqai nabuwat ka dawa kia tha, aur yah thik tarha say saabit bhi ho jay, tab aysaay jhotay sakhs par mayri, ham sab ki, aur Allah ki lanat ho. Lanat Allah-e-alalkazibeen. Magar mayray bhai jab tak innsaaf kay tamam taqazay pooray nahi hotay, aur koi sakhs "kazib" saabit nahi hota, kia phir ossay "kazib" kahnay say bara zulm koi ho sakta hay jo aik muslaman doosray musalman par kar sakta hay? Mayray bhai cheezon ko straight follow karnay say pahlay independently soch to lia karo kay kia aysa karnay say koi ghlati to nahi ho rahi, kia kia blindly follow karna thik bhi hay? Kia jo reason di gai hay, kia wo samjh main bhi aati hay? Mayray bhai taleem ka maqsaad yah hay kay mamlaat ko samajhnay main aasaani rahti hay, ya phir agar koi mushkil mamlay ko koi doosra samjhay to ossay samajhna aasaan ho. Bhai aap to kafi parhay likhay ho, kam az kam aapka dini aur dunyawi ilm aik kam ilm ya illeterate say to zyada hi hay. Kia aapkay khyal main "Yousuf Ali" kay muaamlay main Dini aur Dunyawi lihaz say insaaf kay taqazaay pooray ho gay thay kia? Kia aapko hamari courts aur evidences, aur gawahaan ka haal nahi pata kia? Kia judge ka eeman iss level ka tha kay wo kisi doosray kay eeman ka faysala karsakay? Kia gawahan sahih-ul-aqeeda thay kia? Kis nay onko check kia tha? Phir agar insaaf kay taqazay pooray nahi hoay thay, to phir bhai kisi ko "kazib" kahnay ka jawab to dayna hoga, Allah kay samnay bhi aur oss shaks kay samnay bhi.
Bhai "qanooni mushagafi" kah kar daman nahi churaya jasakta, aur na hi cold blooded murderer ko naik naam banana chayay.
Kutch yahi maamlaa Zaid Hamid ka bhi hay. Buhat aaraam say aap aur buhat say doosray log, aik aysaay sahks kay faith par onglian otha rahay hain jo khulay aam "khatum-un-nabeen" ka iqrar karaha hay. Kia bhai aap dilon kay haal jantay ho?
Bhai jahan tak main nay parha hay, "yousuf Ali" ko session judge (Grade 18 or 19) ki adalat say saza-e-mot hoi thi. Awal to court of session judge is very initial level of court of law i.e. nor Supreme Court neither Federal Shariat Court. Kia jab tak ossay Supreme Court ya Federal Shariat Court say mujrim qaraar nahi dia jata, ossay "kazib" kahna jayaz hoga kia? Ya phir Pakistan main koi Centralized Religious Authority (like in Iran) mijod hay jiss nay oskay "kazib" ka fatwa dia ho. Apnay jo aalimon ki list likhi thi wo individual level par to kutch bhi kah saktay hain magar kia wo koi "Centralize Authority" ya State level authority hain? Kia Pakistan kay tamam firqon say taluq rakhnay walay muslims ka in aalimon ko mantay hain? Agar tamam fiqaheen aur firqon kay aalimon ka consensus mojod nahi hay to phir bhi "kazib" kahna kia durust hay? Ya phir agar apkay Molana Sahib nay kaha hay to aap kah rahay hain? Matlab yah kay kutch log "kazib" kahain aur kutch na kahain. Agar yah baat hay, to phir to yah aysi hi baat hoi kay har kisi ko doosray ko kafir kahnay ka haq hay kionkay oskay Molana nay agar kaha hay. Kamal hay bhai.
Phir proceedings kay doran ossay (Yousuf Ali) ko aik murderer nay qatal kar dia. Ab aap osay "Aashiq-e-Rasool (SAW)" kahtay ho. Mayray bhai, awal to abhi insaaf kay taqazay pooray hi nahi hoay thay, aur thori dayr farz karlain kay "Yousuf Ali" jhotay daway ki waja say "wajib ul qatal" tha bhi tab bhi kisi ordinary person ko ossay qatal karnay ki ijazat nahi ho sakti. Yah sirf hokoomat aur oskay "executioner" ka kaam hay. Agar kisi ordinary person nay qanoon haath main liya hay aur "Yousuf Ali" ko qatal kia to osay phir emotional murderer kahlana chayay aur osko bhi qanooni saza hona chayyay. Bhai agar har aadmi qanoon apnay haat main layga to phir anarchy hi hosakti hay, jo taqreeban tamam Islamic Societies main common hay. Talibann oski zinda misaal hain.
Bhai "chill" karna buhat aasaan hota hay. Thik baat ko kahnay kay liay kisi ka tarafdaar ya follower honay ki koi zaroorat nahi hoti. Haan yah hamaray maashray ka ulmiya zaroor hay kay ham sirf apnay doston, saathion, party etc. ki tarafdaari main sach ka saath chor daytay hain, aur blindly follow karnay lag jatay hain, apnay zahan say nahi sochtay kay kia thik hay aur kia ghalat. Yah jo reason di jarahi hay, kia wo dil aur dimagh ki sajh main bhi aati hay apni samjh ya aqal ki roshni main. Bhai "chill" karna har jaga thik nahi hota, agar ho to Pak Army ko bhi Waziristan say wapas aakar chill karna chayay.
Bhai main baar baar kahta hon kay mayra aapsay ikhtilaaf buhat hi bunyaadi hay. Awal to hamain kisi doosray ko defame karnay, oskay faith par shak karnay ka koi haq nahi hay, na dini lihaz say aur na dunyawi lihaz say. Har kaam ko karnay kay two ways hain, pahla thik tareeqa, aur doosra ghalat tariqa. Agar kisi ko Zaid Hamid say koi shikayat hay to ossay thik tariqa ikhtiyar karna chayay, nakay internet par defamation compaign chala kar. No one has any civic or religious right to run this kind of defamation compaign. If every one would practice this way to setlle issues, then no one can save us from anarchy. THOSE WHO ARE DOING IT ARE EITHER "NADAN DOOST" OR ACTUAL ENEMIES. Rallies nikalna, stikes karna, naaray maarna, jalao gherao karna, ya bay aqal log kartay hain ya asal dushman karwatay hain. Jo leader ya log aysa karain wo inhi categories say belong kartay hain.
Maghrib zada, secular, NGO zada, qadyani, ya phir kutch aur tag lagana buhat aasaan hay. Yah alfaaz kutch bay aqlon kay liay marfeen ka injection to ho saktay hain, illness ka cure nahi. Apni roti pakki karnay kay liay log kaysay kaysay tags istimaal kartay hain. Aur hamaray logon ka yah haal hay kay blindly follow karnay kay ilawa kutch nahi ata. Hamain sirf nachna aata hay, dugdugi chahay kisi (Molvi/ Zaid Hamid/ Politicians etc.) kay haath main bhi ho. Issi liay hamko sadyon say jaan boojh kar illeterate rakha jaa raha hay. Education tu intellectual independence lati hay, magar hamaray tu educated log bhi issqadar emotional hain kay koi bhi deen ka naam laykar kutch bhi karwa sakta hay. Agar yahi haal raha tu education bhi iss qom ka kutch nahi bigar sakti.
Alas!
Neither I am a follower of "Yousuf Ali", nor Zaid Hamid.
Regards
First of all I would request to all posters to please contain themselves to reason, logic, and debate only. Though everyone is independent of my request.
I was abstaining from this thread as I have mentioned earlier about habit of our masses to tag others. It happened here too, and I think Greatkhan left this thread because of the same thing too.
Infact, I would say that origin of this thread also lies in our collective habit of tagging others, which as I have said earlier neither as ordinary muslim we should do nor any State Law permits. However, if any of us have any problem with anyone else, then there are proper ways to settle it like filing a case in proper Court of Law. Very unfortunately, the responsible people among us who should have tried to bring us together actually caused division among us. Eventual result is this mob mentality in which we are progressing with rapid rate.
Dear Awais, mujhay aapkay iss thread aur reason say pahlay din say ikhtilaaf hay. Agar aapko ya kissi aur ko Zaid Hamid say koi ikhtilaaf hay to ossay setlle karnay kay liay kia yah internet par defamation compaign chalana aur logon ko Islam kay naam par oksaana kia thik tariqa hay? Phir agar ossay koi kam aqal jaakar koi nuqsaan pohncha day to phir os kam aqal ko aap "Aashiq Rassool (SAW)" bana dain gay.
Bhai mayray main sirf time ki kami ki waja say detail main nahi jana chahta, magar aapkay oper poochay gay swalat ka jawab dayna koi mushkil nahi hay. Bhai mukhtasran main sirf itna kahna chahta hon kay jab aik aadmi nay "khatum-un-nabeen" ka khulay aam aitraaf kia hay to phir oskay eeman "faith" kay baray main shak ka izhar karna aik doosray musalman kayliay na dini lihaz say aur na dunyawi lihaz say thik hay.
Mazeed baat yah kay agar "Yousuf Ali" nay waqai nabuwat ka dawa kia tha, aur yah thik tarha say saabit bhi ho jay, tab aysaay jhotay sakhs par mayri, ham sab ki, aur Allah ki lanat ho. Lanat Allah-e-alalkazibeen. Magar mayray bhai jab tak innsaaf kay tamam taqazay pooray nahi hotay, aur koi sakhs "kazib" saabit nahi hota, kia phir ossay "kazib" kahnay say bara zulm koi ho sakta hay jo aik muslaman doosray musalman par kar sakta hay? Mayray bhai cheezon ko straight follow karnay say pahlay independently soch to lia karo kay kia aysa karnay say koi ghlati to nahi ho rahi, kia kia blindly follow karna thik bhi hay? Kia jo reason di gai hay, kia wo samjh main bhi aati hay? Mayray bhai taleem ka maqsaad yah hay kay mamlaat ko samajhnay main aasaani rahti hay, ya phir agar koi mushkil mamlay ko koi doosra samjhay to ossay samajhna aasaan ho. Bhai aap to kafi parhay likhay ho, kam az kam aapka dini aur dunyawi ilm aik kam ilm ya illeterate say to zyada hi hay. Kia aapkay khyal main "Yousuf Ali" kay muaamlay main Dini aur Dunyawi lihaz say insaaf kay taqazaay pooray ho gay thay kia? Kia aapko hamari courts aur evidences, aur gawahaan ka haal nahi pata kia? Kia judge ka eeman iss level ka tha kay wo kisi doosray kay eeman ka faysala karsakay? Kia gawahan sahih-ul-aqeeda thay kia? Kis nay onko check kia tha? Phir agar insaaf kay taqazay pooray nahi hoay thay, to phir bhai kisi ko "kazib" kahnay ka jawab to dayna hoga, Allah kay samnay bhi aur oss shaks kay samnay bhi.
Bhai "qanooni mushagafi" kah kar daman nahi churaya jasakta, aur na hi cold blooded murderer ko naik naam banana chayay.
Kutch yahi maamlaa Zaid Hamid ka bhi hay. Buhat aaraam say aap aur buhat say doosray log, aik aysaay sahks kay faith par onglian otha rahay hain jo khulay aam "khatum-un-nabeen" ka iqrar karaha hay. Kia bhai aap dilon kay haal jantay ho?
Bhai jahan tak main nay parha hay, "yousuf Ali" ko session judge (Grade 18 or 19) ki adalat say saza-e-mot hoi thi. Awal to court of session judge is very initial level of court of law i.e. nor Supreme Court neither Federal Shariat Court. Kia jab tak ossay Supreme Court ya Federal Shariat Court say mujrim qaraar nahi dia jata, ossay "kazib" kahna jayaz hoga kia? Ya phir Pakistan main koi Centralized Religious Authority (like in Iran) mijod hay jiss nay oskay "kazib" ka fatwa dia ho. Apnay jo aalimon ki list likhi thi wo individual level par to kutch bhi kah saktay hain magar kia wo koi "Centralize Authority" ya State level authority hain? Kia Pakistan kay tamam firqon say taluq rakhnay walay muslims ka in aalimon ko mantay hain? Agar tamam fiqaheen aur firqon kay aalimon ka consensus mojod nahi hay to phir bhi "kazib" kahna kia durust hay? Ya phir agar apkay Molana Sahib nay kaha hay to aap kah rahay hain? Matlab yah kay kutch log "kazib" kahain aur kutch na kahain. Agar yah baat hay, to phir to yah aysi hi baat hoi kay har kisi ko doosray ko kafir kahnay ka haq hay kionkay oskay Molana nay agar kaha hay. Kamal hay bhai.
Phir proceedings kay doran ossay (Yousuf Ali) ko aik murderer nay qatal kar dia. Ab aap osay "Aashiq-e-Rasool (SAW)" kahtay ho. Mayray bhai, awal to abhi insaaf kay taqazay pooray hi nahi hoay thay, aur thori dayr farz karlain kay "Yousuf Ali" jhotay daway ki waja say "wajib ul qatal" tha bhi tab bhi kisi ordinary person ko ossay qatal karnay ki ijazat nahi ho sakti. Yah sirf hokoomat aur oskay "executioner" ka kaam hay. Agar kisi ordinary person nay qanoon haath main liya hay aur "Yousuf Ali" ko qatal kia to osay phir emotional murderer kahlana chayay aur osko bhi qanooni saza hona chayyay. Bhai agar har aadmi qanoon apnay haat main layga to phir anarchy hi hosakti hay, jo taqreeban tamam Islamic Societies main common hay. Talibann oski zinda misaal hain.
Bhai "chill" karna buhat aasaan hota hay. Thik baat ko kahnay kay liay kisi ka tarafdaar ya follower honay ki koi zaroorat nahi hoti. Haan yah hamaray maashray ka ulmiya zaroor hay kay ham sirf apnay doston, saathion, party etc. ki tarafdaari main sach ka saath chor daytay hain, aur blindly follow karnay lag jatay hain, apnay zahan say nahi sochtay kay kia thik hay aur kia ghalat. Yah jo reason di jarahi hay, kia wo dil aur dimagh ki sajh main bhi aati hay apni samjh ya aqal ki roshni main. Bhai "chill" karna har jaga thik nahi hota, agar ho to Pak Army ko bhi Waziristan say wapas aakar chill karna chayay.
Bhai main baar baar kahta hon kay mayra aapsay ikhtilaaf buhat hi bunyaadi hay. Awal to hamain kisi doosray ko defame karnay, oskay faith par shak karnay ka koi haq nahi hay, na dini lihaz say aur na dunyawi lihaz say. Har kaam ko karnay kay two ways hain, pahla thik tareeqa, aur doosra ghalat tariqa. Agar kisi ko Zaid Hamid say koi shikayat hay to ossay thik tariqa ikhtiyar karna chayay, nakay internet par defamation compaign chala kar. No one has any civic or religious right to run this kind of defamation compaign. If every one would practice this way to setlle issues, then no one can save us from anarchy. THOSE WHO ARE DOING IT ARE EITHER "NADAN DOOST" OR ACTUAL ENEMIES. Rallies nikalna, stikes karna, naaray maarna, jalao gherao karna, ya bay aqal log kartay hain ya asal dushman karwatay hain. Jo leader ya log aysa karain wo inhi categories say belong kartay hain.
Maghrib zada, secular, NGO zada, qadyani, ya phir kutch aur tag lagana buhat aasaan hay. Yah alfaaz kutch bay aqlon kay liay marfeen ka injection to ho saktay hain, illness ka cure nahi. Apni roti pakki karnay kay liay log kaysay kaysay tags istimaal kartay hain. Aur hamaray logon ka yah haal hay kay blindly follow karnay kay ilawa kutch nahi ata. Hamain sirf nachna aata hay, dugdugi chahay kisi (Molvi/ Zaid Hamid/ Politicians etc.) kay haath main bhi ho. Issi liay hamko sadyon say jaan boojh kar illeterate rakha jaa raha hay. Education tu intellectual independence lati hay, magar hamaray tu educated log bhi issqadar emotional hain kay koi bhi deen ka naam laykar kutch bhi karwa sakta hay. Agar yahi haal raha tu education bhi iss qom ka kutch nahi bigar sakti.
Alas!
Neither I am a follower of "Yousuf Ali", nor Zaid Hamid.
Regards
