ICAP humiliating itself

[kamranACA]

Dear Mirza,

You have not come back with any reference. I think you are habitual of cracking jokes.


Regards,



KAMRAN.

[mroneflower]

I will advise readers not to listen to this CRAP as this kind of people will never accept reality so it is wastage of time to carry discussion with him.

Its nice to read Kamran and unseendemon post and nice to know that ICAP people can start abusing others when they run of logic as in unseendemon words <font color="red">What utter bull****. And Predicting the fall of ICAP! my my my. This is personal for you, isnt it</font id="red"> (post number 23 of this thread). So one can conclude that if someone wants to know how to use abusive language then join ICAP. GOOD

Furthermore click on the link below and read last post of unseendemon

http//www.accountancy.com.pk/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=582&whichpage=10

He admitted in the post that he has passed till module D of ICAP and now started ACCA. I am shocked over his intelligence that first he passed ICAP some papers then start ACCA (is ICAP is gateway to ACCA). When ICAP people cannot decide what to do and change their mind in the middle of their studies , people can judge their qualities and one can understand how ICAP handle its students. If nice to know ICAP people jump from one qualification to other, GOOD

In Kamran words <font color="red">What a joke that he is ACCA (not ICAP members), staying at UK, and has better understanding, and forecast abilities than a whole of the nation, a complete council, 4000+ members of an institute who are not only ICAPs' member but may have so many other qualifications, memberships and strengths.</font id="red">

First I never wished to be a member of third class body such as ICAP. I even did not even go for ICAEW and ICAI (Ireland). My this statement could be checked in ACCA vs CA tread on page number 9, I said this in 2006.

Its strange to see that ICAP people think that they do represent whole nation. Readers can see Privilege game as ICAP members think they represent whole nation. If I am not wrong, MOU was singed by ICAP and not by whole nation, Privilege Game. Morever Kamran admitted that ICAP people has many other qualifications. Means ICAP people do need other qualifications to be competent and ICAP membership is not enough along, STRANGE.

He also said <font color="red">to my understanding ACCA can never take over ICEAW</font id="red">. I think whole of UK is mad who is saying this and only Kamran is right. If so,I think UK should hire him as advisor. First ICAP destroyed Pakistani economy and now they wish to destroy UK economy. I cannnot beleive that ICAP members are incompetent.

Kamran is also saying that he is supervising ICAP and ACCA students. He also admitted he does not know how many papers ACCA and ICAP has in total. In this situation I really do not know what kind of supervision and help he is giving to students. His words
<font color="red">I may not necessarily know what number of papers ICAP has at the moment and what structure has been changed after the time we had qualified.</font id="red">

Actually people who are responsible for student training are supposed to know about qualification whose students they supervising, it simple. Again shows ICAP people take decisions and do things without collecting information.

Kamran comments that <font color="red">With apologies to Pracs I don't agree that ICEAW was on its knees to extend co-operation to ICAP</font id="red">. I explained reason Y ICAEW will not extend MOU with ICAP, The main thing is the reason. By the way ICAEW members in UK have already started raising questions on MOU with ICAP that ICAEW has given too much exemptions to ICAP, this could to checked.

Pracs comments about ICAP and ACCA can be read in ACCA vs CA thead on page two. Remember he is ICAP and ACCA member.

And the question who get more pay in Middle East can also be checked from Prace post on page 2 of ACCA vs CA thread.

By the way ACCA Education, Managing and Development Managing Director Ms clare is ICAEW member and after doing ACA from ICAEW she did ACCA. But this CRAP man will not admit this as well.

ACCA had MRA with CPA Taxes (USA) which was cancelled by ACCA. ICAP MOU with ICAEW and MOU terms shows clearly that ICAP is third class institute, which is clear from Kamran words <font color="red">“Things have to proceed unless there arises some threat and who-ever counters the threat when it arises cannot be said poor predict”</font id="red">. Means ICAP first cant predict and when it see threat then instead of competing in an open market ICAP uses law to restrict other bodies, means avoid direct competition as ICAP cannot compete in an open market.

ACCA is competing in 160 open markets where ICAP is not competing in one open market. ICAP reputation is the world is clear from MOU between ICAEW and ICAP and ICAP is even not comparable and equivalent to ICAI (INDIA), Remember argument that ICAP is third world country institute is not acceptable as ICAI (india) also belongs to third world, so y ICAI has given more weight. Answer is simple that ICAP is third class institute. I mentioned above that ICAEW members have already started asking about ICAEW and ICAP MOU. Check it.

80 countries of the must be stupid which recognize ACCA but not ICAP. ICAP was established by ICAEW Pakistani people where ACCA was not developed with anyone helps. Means ICAP always and always need someone help where ACCA does not.

Main reasons for Kamran posts are to keep ICAP students as ICAP is loosing students everyday. He will not be successful as even people like unseendemon are joining other institutes. Terms of MOU between ICAP and ICAEW also made people to think about quality of ICAP and its membesr.

Monopoly days have gone now and only those qualifications will prevail which can compete in any open market and ICAP clearly cant, Its Simple.

If people think option makes qualification easy , these people should also not go for ICAEW as ICAEW also gives options to students.

Students and people could see that it’s a game of retaining position of elite class which ICAP and its members are following. So be careful. People can see how ICAP members treats others, its simply shows that think they are superior to everyone.

I do not know why ICAP people are afraid of ACCA, now ICAEW is there to kick them.

ICAP is such a great institute that its management does not reply to emails and letters. On other hands I emailed ICAI(India) and in email I mentioned that I am Pakistani national, still ICAI(India) replied. So ICAP members even do not have professional attitude. ICAP members and students are expert in abusing others and ICAP does not answer. GREAT! What a professional institute.

Kamran I do not have energy to continue stupid discussion with you. In my first post I wrote, I do not want any comparison between ACCA and ICAP and do not want to prove ACCA is better than ICAP. If ICAP thinks its better than ACCA please continue to do so (including you).

I just want to show correct picture to students. If you think ICAP is better then its fine and I do not have any problem with it, continue to do so no one is stopping you.

Khalid

[unseendemon]

Do we have a moderator on this forum? I think i would like to make a ban request.

Let's just get this out of the way -> HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAhAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHHAAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHAHAHAH

I can almost picture you, you sad pathetic being. What's next? Are you gonna comment on my girlfriend, where i live, the car i drive?

Keep it on the topic and dont step off the line. Next time you run out of logic and recycling crap, SHUT UP. No need to get personal.

You argue like a kindergarten child. ACCA is better than CA cause it has 4 letters compared to 2! OH WOW. Most of your posts try to discredit other members rather than make a point. Pointlessly dragging on this discussion for reasons unknown. This icap hate IS personal for you, isnt it?

I never thought i'd live to see a day when someone will try to convince me that ICAP members are incompetent D guess there's a first for everything.

""Main reasons for Kamran posts are to keep ICAP students as ICAP is loosing students everyday""

OMGZ!! CALL THE THOUGHT POLICE! this guy can read minds. I'm sure no one (except you, ofcourse) would be idiotic enough to carry an agenda on a public discussion forum. This really shows just how your mind processes things. A total disgrace.

Is that why you continue this? to "recruit" people for acca? D

* Oh, btw i totally agree that Kamran is in no position to supervise ACCAs because he does not know how many papers there are in the qualification. I mean come on, how can Kamran who is a qualified accountant, well versed with accounting and auditing standards, supervise the ACCAs without knowing how many papers they have. UNACCEPTABLE Mr. Kamran! you should apologize to those poor souls who joined your firm thinking you knew how many papers there were in ACCA P


I know you're too thick for this, so yeah *sarcasm detector on* X

[Pracs]

Gents, please keep this civil, the whole purpose of a forum is to discuss, convert and or get converted or stay on to your point of view, does not mean that you go on to abuse people or institutes, Its not fair to call ICAP a thrid class institute, it is one of very few Pakistani institutes which have world class quality and reputation and its members are industry leaders.

Nothing is static in today's worlds but in all fairness ICAP's status as Pakistan's premier accounting body is here to stay, there could be alliances in the future more reciprocal arrangements etc.

Likewise speaking as an ACCA member working in UK, albiet that ACCA is growing in terms of numbers, ICAEW and ICAS are still seen to be more prestigious (atleast in attracting the best talent, more so because of Big4's preference and that a majority of Partners are members of one of the two institutes). ACCA by law has the same status and given UK's employment laws enjoys similar remuneration and career growth opportunities.

What needs to be understood, it is just not a degree or a professional qualification that takes you ahead in your careers, it is the experiences and the skills that you acquire.

I am saying this again, the thread is loosing its objectivity, there is already an ACCA vs CA thread here.

[kamranACA]

Dear Unseendemon,

The first characteristic of a poor struggler or complexed person is that he does not bear the ability to listen the others and this Khalid stuff is enriched with this very feature. I don't want to go beyond the limits despite some wise members have declared me Hitler and Laden etc. I don't mind such comments evolved from disturbed thoughts. Let the guys calm down.

I never said that ACCA is something weird to be thought of or it carries some sins to get into it. It's a good qualification at UK and Ireland, mainly for the residents of such places, simply because UK/Ireland cannot accommodate people dreaming good positions from all over the places where ACCA has offices and students. Further, being more in number is no advantage at all and is not an assurance of quality as such. However, I always say that ACCA is a good gateway to other qualifications. One should not disagree on facts. So I don't.

I have a firm belief that the chartered bodies have to be localized and the outsiders cannot compete them any where unless the host is totally lacking such expertise locally. I have reservations though but I just leave UK and Ireland out of the discussion being the local charter place for ACCA. No where else in the world ACCA can ever compete the localized charter holders. This is very simple if some body has the ability to understand. A detailed analysis can be made by this Khalid stuff at his own. That's why I said that there is a need to know that at the 80 places of ACCA's accreditation, how much portfolio of internationally renowned giant clients has so far been added to ACCA professional firms. It may also be good to know how many locally established ACCA firms are working at such places. Please don’t include CA firms having some ACCA partners in such analysis. Simply having a license does not mean that some one is effectively using such license. This needs to be analyzed and understood.

Furthermore, my major area of discussion is my own country, Pakistan. It's a basic point to understand. Globalization does not mean that every one can go and settle out of Pakistan merely for the reason of ACCA. It's quite illogical to get a qualification which does not produce good results locally and which necessarily bounds the holder to move out for earning a livelihood. However, if some one wants to get settled at some other place it will be a considerable option among the available ones. Still, the localized charter-holder makes a better option comparatively if there is any. Yes, ACCA is a good gate way as well. I am the member of this forum probably from the beginning of the last year. We had been seeing bluff masters making big claims but in fact over the period of these two years ACCA has not moved ahead to prove to the contrary. Let's see next two years as well. I hope this mentally upset man would be here to face the facts after two years.

The comments of Khalid regarding my statement about papers and their structure etc are quite understandable. ACCAs may not know what is the professional training in fact and how it is structured and imparted. Is there a need to explain if this dumb mind wonders? Institutes send us students' result cards for information only and our role is simply to motivate them for studies and provide them due opportunities to learn what can support them on their academic side as well. Professional training does not include delivering subject wise lectures, taking responsibilities of keeping the students abreast with structural changes in their papers, providing them tuitions, and arranging pen, pencils, rubbers, calculators for their exams along with neat and clean uniforms. What goes wrong if this man may include these all duties in the list of professional training? Everything could be expected of unsound structure he has. However, arranging seminars and workshops to strengthen the students’ professional capabilities and to understand how to work with the things practically is quite another issue. Ask this man to come out of the mentally immature phase of a primary's student. Sorry ACCA student. I, in some earlier post, said that this Khalid is still wandering in papers and teachers and he needs to get matured. May this happen, if he tries to undergo some better training; or training if he lacks it entirely.

So, dear Unseendemon, I understand your concerns over the mental capacity of this man, but, dear here at this forum, we have to continue with all the members. We should see how they behave and if some one likes doing such comedy, take it as a source of amusement. We can ask him certain questions after couple of y ears. I am here to ask Inshallah. Bear with this thread till then.


Best regards,



KAMRAN.

[mhmirza]

McDonalds Happy Meal

Undoubtedly ACCA is the leading accountancy body in the world. It lags behind in Pakistan because policy makers at ACCA don’t have clear and defined objectives regarding Pakistan. This institute wants only to make money in Pakistan. Doing ACCA is like eating a McDonald’s burger. When one eats MacDonald’s burger it gives the feel that you are eating something world class but its consumption adds no value to consumers’ personality. This qualification is being pursued by certain class of people who are duped by its world class status. It is like happy-meal by McDonalds (A package for kids containing a small burger, French fries, a cold drink and <font size="2"><font color="red">a toy to play afterwards</font id="red"></font id="size2">). ACCA is irrelevant in Pakistan because policy makers are not concerned. Can anybody tell me if there is any Pakistani on ACCA’s policy making council?

Mr. Karmran

The kindest advice for you is to talk like a professional. I don’t understand why you want be personal with everyone.

[mhmirza]

One last thing I forgot to mention is that after two years we will have more ACCAs than B.Coms in Pakistan.

[kamranACA]

Dear Mr. Mirza

A nice analysis you have made. However, reservations with the conclusion that ACCA is leading accountancy body in the world, are my personal. I am certainly not getting personal with any one for the reason of this difference of opinion.

I am a human being like you and certainly there could be deficiencies in me as well. I don't claim to be pretty much perfect. In fact no one should make such claim at personal level.

I normally tend to avoid starting anything personal at my own but when the others cross the limits, sometimes it becomes warranted. You can visit any thread to check that I normally don't take the lead. I wonder if talking about ACCA becomes personal for some body.

Thank you for your advice.


Regards,



KAMRAN.

[mroneflower]

mhmirza

Your analysis is not supported by any backing plaese qoute reference if making any point, otherwise stay quite. People like Kamran I will reply to your post later. By the way ICAP (you) supports analysis where qualfication is expressed in terms of Burger or saying qualification is Burger. That is why I say ICAP is third class institute producing third class accountants who are not even fully Qualified accountants in eyes of ICAEW (yardstick of ICAP).

mhmirza comment that in two yrs time there will be more ACCA than B.COM shows his caliber and incapacity to collect some relevant information before making any claim. If you read my post I have already mentioned that ACCA launched itself in Pakistan 1995 and in 13 yrs i.e upto to date December 2008, there are only 700 ACCA full members and 1,100 ACCA Affiliates in Pakistan. I repaet there are only 700 ACCA full members and 1,100 ACCA Affiliates in Pakistan.

If B.COM will be less than this number in two yrs time, then I have doubt about teaching quality and books in Pakistan. By the way what is your qualification on both academic and professional side.

unseendemon you keep on abusing, it shows what you have been taught in ICAP. Anyway you are comming to ACCA so we will teach you ethics and polish you. Dont worry ACCA will teach you profesional people behaviour which ICAP could not.

Khalid

[kamranACA]

Dears,

Khalid will teach ethics to Unseendemon. I guessed he is still caught up in issues of teachers and students. Definitely he cannot say, "we will train you on ethical practices", he is bound to say "we will teach you ethics". Poor he. However, he does not know the difference.

I wonder if the example of burgers is taken by him totally based on the actual meanings of the words. What can I say? I lack words to appreciate his competency. If some one will call the other as a member of Burger family, he will start thinking how a burger can give birh to kids and make a family.

I said he is a source of amusement. Good comedy dude. Keep it up. Waiting for your next drama.


Regards,


KAMRAN.

[nakaiun]

assalam o alaikum
some information abt acca in Pakistan about 30000 registered students who r studing in difierent levels i read this in daily times newspaper one year back my teacher told that 900 to 1000 students have able to complete acca out of 23000 thousand so percentage shows that acca is not easy some people doing propaganda against acca is noy good ca,acca and all other qualification r professional respect all if somebody think that acca is not good then he/she should not do acca

http//www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=2008\03\31\story_31-3-2008_pg12_9

[mroneflower]

Dear Nakaiun

Do not worry about ICAP, its members and students hypocrisy as they are Hypocrite. Main purpose of this post was to show ICAP standing in the world which is shown by MOU between ICAP and ICAEW. But some people came up and started ACCA vs CA debate. I am just showing them ICAP standing which I have to.

Khalid

[nakaiun]

let just put the statement aside that acca is good or bad one u should go and talk abt ca to students who had just passed inter majority of them say that they does not want to do ca becoz it takes 7 to 8 yrs to pass it need long time the preception abt icap is very bad in karachi as im living here acca is another way way to become chartered accountant icap has made it's own image bad becoz it's policies r worst like refer if someone failed he has to give all papers.All qualifications r good give them respect

[kamranACA]

Dear Nakaiun,

I can understand what you are saying. Yes ACCA is far easier. I appreciate those who do it for such reason. It's certainly a good way out.


Regards,



KAMRAN.

[ali_boy9]

DEAR KAMRAN
WELL IT'S CERTAINLY GOOD WAY IN.. BUT IT'S A LOT DIFFICULT TO PASS ANY EXAM WHETHER IT'S ACCA ICAEW ICAS OR ICAP IF ONE LACKS PREPARATION.. WHAT DO YOU MEAN BY SAYING EASIER.
DEAR IT ALL DEPENDS UPON ONES WAY OF STUDY AND PREPARAION.
CAN YOU PASS EVEN A SINGLE PAPER WITHOUT STUDYING?
NO..
IT'S NOT EASY.. IT'S THE WAY STUDENTS PREPARE.
THE WAY ACCA STUENTS PREPARE IS FAR BETTER THAN THOSE OF ICAPIANs WHICH IS ALL "RATTA" and which they are habitual of since they come from the RATTA backgrounds.

well aside of these things
look at the icap syllabus

Paper A 1 Functional English
Paper A 2 Quantitative Methods
Module B
Paper B 3 Introduction to Economics and Finance
Paper B 4 Introduction to Financial Accounting
Paper B 5 Mercantile Law
INTERMEDIATE EXAMINATION
Module C
Paper C 6 Financial Accounting
Paper C 7 Taxation
Paper C 8 Business Communication and Behavioural Studies
Module D
Paper D 9 Company Law
Paper D 10 Cost Accounting
Paper D 11 Auditing
Paper D 12 Information Technology
FINAL EXAMINATION
Module E
Paper E 13 Information Technology Management, Audit and Control
Paper E 14 Advanced Accounting & Financial Reporting
Paper E 15 Corporate Laws
Paper E 16 Business Management
Module F
Paper F 17 Management Accounting
Paper F 18 Business Finance Decision
Paper F 19 Advanced Taxation
Paper F 20 Advanced Auditing

and lets compare it with that of ACCA... infact lets compare it with CAT.

For the CAT qualification you will complete nine exams, split into three Levels. These are all designed to test the knowledge, skills and understanding you will need to work in accounting support roles. The exams cover the key areas of accounting, finance, IT and management.

Advanced Level exams are of equivalent standard to the first year of a university degree and offer a choice of options to suit your career needs.

At Advanced Level, the element of choice is introduced so that you can tailor your learning to suit work experience and career aspirations.INTRODUCTORY LEVEL
1 Recording Financial Transactions
2 Information for Management Control
INTERMEDIATE LEVEL
3 Maintaining Financial Records
4 Accounting for Costs
ADVANCED LEVEL
5 Managing People and Systems
6 Drafting Financial Statements
7 Planning, Control and Performance Management
plus two options from
8 Implementing Audit Procedures
9 Preparing Taxation Computations
10 Managing Finances

CAT the initial step for getting in ACCA has very strong academic syllabus compared to that of icap.
in icap audit is introduced in module D. whereas in CAT its introduced in level 3. TOPICS LIKE ACCOUNTING FOR COSTS.. MAINTIANING FINANCIAL RECORDS IS TAUGHT IN LEVEL 2 . (remember CAT is only a gateway to ACCA).

HAVE A LOOK AT THE SYLLABUS ABOVE AND COMPARE IT YOUR WAY... IT SIMPLY "CAT"

SO WHAT ABOUT ACCA.
COMPANY LAW AND CORPORATE LAWS WHICH ARE STUDIED IN MODULE D and E are studied in fundamentals in ACCA which is F4 of ACCA.
HAVE A LOOK AT ACCA SYLLABUS

FUNDAMENTALS (nine papers in total)Knowledge
F1 Accountant in Business(AB)
F2 Management Accounting(MA)
F3 Financial Accounting(FA)
Skills
F4 Corporate and Business Law(CL)
F5 Performance Management(PM)
F6 Taxation(TX)
F7 Financial Reporting(FR)
F8 Audit and Assurance (AA)
F9 Financial Management(FM)
PROFESSIONAL (five papers in total)
Essentials
P1 Professional Accountant(PA)
P2 Corporate Reporting(CR)
P3 Business Analysis(BA)
Options (two to be completed)
P4 Advanced Financial Management(AFM)
P5 Advanced Performance Management(APM)
P6 Advanced Taxation(ATX)
P7 Advanced Audit and Assurance(AAA)

I cant even think of comparing ACCA ADVANCED LEVEL with that of icaps module e&f.. icaps is too far too low in topics and coverage of what an accountant needs.

REGARDS.
ALI