Revision of ACCA exemption ....... Right OR Wrong?

[sms]

hello,

can someone tell me how many papers of module E and Module F havew to be taken by ACCA qualified students

[Cricketer]

Although i don't want to sound rude... but dear SMS, if u had read this topic from the start you would've learnt that this whole discussion is about the taking away of the Module E and F exemptions to the ACCA qualified students by ICAP. <img src=icon_smile.gif border=0 align=middle>

As they say... chalti train pe sawar hona ..... lol

If u still don't get it, then to clarify the situation... u have to give all the papers of Module E and F from now on! No more exemptions, my dear boy.

[coool_dude1]

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[munshi]

asalam olaikum
i think that the decsion is just to retain icaps place in the market.....most of us would have qualified as acca s before thier p1 attempt so there was quite a downfall in students appering in icaps p1.p2 papers..........acca is more comprhensive in thier most of the papers acca approach is more practicle ...acca is internationaly recognised .....and they offer more exemption then icap in forign accountancy bodies.....how ever as acca is enterd into the market it is here to stay.....
salam
zia

[AB]

I believe that ICAP decision is Right. Exemptions should be granted on a reciprocal basis. It was not fair when members of ICAP were granted very few exemptions by ACCA and CIMA (despite that the members in this forum have acknowledged the level of ICAP exams and its continus improvement)and their members were excessively awarded. ICAP should have revised the policy back then but anyway 'Dair aayad Durust ayad'.

As far as ICAP passing policy is concerned, I am for it. Perhaps if the hearsay is true that they also keeps in view the Demand/Supply status. Whatz wrong with that?. Its good that we wont turn up like doctors/engineers and MBAs. Atleast the term Chartered Accountant is respected way above than the rest of the professionals.

[Irfan Muhammad Rehmat]

the effective date is april 2011, what if i take exemptions now. do i get module A to D

[Salmancert]

Amateurs,
none of you seem professional by the way you are talking.

[faizanniazi]

IN MY OPINION ICAP IS A VERY MUCH BIASED AND SCARED OF MORE VALUED ACCA S IN THE MARKET.THEY SHOULD DO JUSTICE WITH THE STUDENTS OF ACCA.

[mudassar2704]

Mr Faizanniazi!

Do you think exemptions of just 3 paper offered by ACCA to CA inter Pak are fair in anyway?
CA inter covers most of the syllabus upto ACCA's F9, are they given exemption?
Then why ICAP should allow exemptions for subject ACCAs never touch?

[Junaid80]

Let me conclude this whole discussion in a very simple mathamatical
equation
ACCA=PIPFA
Please do not compare ACCA with CA becoz Mini CA (PIPFA) is enough
for ACCA.

[shahidACCA]

dear mudassar2704. ACCA always give exemption on equivalent basis, e-g reciprocal membership to those institute who also accept ACCA and give membership,even ACCA member after 5 year membership can become ICAEW member, as far as ICAP please read the below note care fully it taken from ICAP site.
ICAA

The member of Institute of Chartered Accountants of Pakistan is partially recognized equivalent to an Australian Bachelor degree.
Following are the three steps that are required for ICAP members to be eligible for the membership of the Institute of Chartered Accountants of Australia

1. Eligibility to enroll in the Chartered Accountants Program

Following are the pre requisites service entry requirements for the Chartered Accountants Program

Chartered Accountancy Program
Pre-requisite Core Knowledge Area
ICAP Papers Required

Accounting System and Processes
B4 Introduction to Financial Accounting
C6 Financial Accounting

Corporate Accounting and Reporting
C6 Financial Accounting
E14 Advanced Accounting and Financial Reporting

Accounting Theory, Professional and Regulatory Processes
E14 Advanced Accounting and Financial Reporting ( partial coverage only)

Cost and Management Accounting
D10 Cost Accounting
F17 Business Finance Decision

Finance
F17 Business Finance Decision

Auditing and Assurance
D11 Auditing
F20 Advanced Auditing

Legal Framework and Commercial Law
B5 Mercantile Law

Australian Corporations Law
Not Covered

Australian Taxation Law
Not Covered


ICAP members have to appear in the two bridging subjects Australian Corporations Law and Australian Taxation Law, clearing the papers will fulfill the entry requirements for the Chartered Accountants Program.

2. Chartered Accountants Program

To be eligible for full membership of the Institute ICAP members are required to successfully complete 5 modules of Charted Accountants Program as well as accrue 2 years practical experience with an employer approved by the Institute.

3. Application for the membership of the Institute of Chartered Accountants of Australia

After graduating from the Chartered Program ICAP members can apply for membership of the Institute of Chartered Accountants of Australia

OPEN YOU EYES DEAR. Australia institute even doest not recognise ICAP members for entry requirment and ICAP give full membership to their members

NOW COME TO CANADA INSTITUTE


CICA



There are 4 stages before obtaining a Canadian CA.

In the 1st stage ICAP’s CAs are recognized to a 4 year bachelor degree of 120 credit hours. However they do require you to appear for Business Law Course for further 3 credit hours before the stage is completed.
The second stage comprises of a 4 hour MCQ based Core Knowledge Exam.
In the third stage you have to get registered as a trainee and appear for 2 integrated Exams of School of Accountancy.
The final stage requires you to appear for UFE ( Uniform Evaluation) after which you can get the Canadian CA.

I DONT KNOW THESE INSTITUTE DOES NOT RECOGNIZE ICAP MEMBERS EVEN FOR ENTRY REQUIRMENT AND THIS INSTITUTE GIVE FULL EXEMPTION.

I AM SURE THAT KAMRANACA WILL GIVE REPLY WITH POSITIVE COMMENTS

REGARDS

[shahidACCA]

Dear Junaid80, please read the pakistan news papers, you will see jobs for ACCA and PIPFA.

[kamranACA]

I can give a number of reasons for the questions posted; and readers can also find such reasons if they go through my previous posts. Doing ACCA by people like we see here in itself provides one sort of clarification to this reason; certainly the facts have to be focused, whatever these are; and certainly various measures are required in various circumstances. I hope no one will misinterpret my words.

I believe my explanations are not going to leave any impact; and based upon my previous experience I was not willing to struck my head in a greater level of depth. However, I make a little effort for those who really are curious and might in fact be in a need to understand some pros and cons. (another help to student community).

First of all understand one thing and analyze it whether I am saying it right or wrong as per your own understanding. I believe that, had the ACCA been accepted in local market, ACCA guys would have never been asking for exemptions from ICAP. It is a fact, and if we look back on historical claims when market worth was not crystal clear, people used to say that they don¡¦t at all need ICAP¡¦s blessing for their career building. However, when outcome differed we saw such a demand. Why ACCAs in such other scenario were not expected to be longing for recognition by ICAP, IS EXACTLY the reason why ICAP people have not TOO MUCH bothered for exemptions from others.

Pakistani CAs (alive and working members) are still less than or may be nearing 5,000 and obviously there had been low voice for the need of cross border exemptions due to lack of its need. This 5,000 so far did not find any "material" problem in finding their decent livelihood even at Pak so there is not a big thirst which you guys have. However, still there is not a "huge" demand for exemptions from everywhere. It is surprising but is a fact that some of the institutes in the world have JUST been asked to review our training procedures and syllabus contents to consider MRAs etc although we recognized them way back. Historically, we can find a few visits of ICAP people to some renowned institutes but no big discussion ever took place for this purpose. This is a fact and I am telling you with much authority and responsibility. Why it happened; because we are quite lesser in number and most of us are locally settled or at maximum in Middle-east or UK. Had ACCAs been accepted in Pak market, you would also have not MUCH bothered for the exemptions which you currently are longing for. So this is clear and easy to understand.

Further, ICAP members who needed to settle down abroad, very openly accepted the differences and qualified the needed exams in graceful manner to meet their requirement. A few such examples are known to me in personal capacity and I know they qualified the foreign exams even without grousing for non-availability of full exemptions etc. Here I agree that ICAP should be there to ease-out this process for our people working out. But again, there HAD BEEN neither a bigger demand nor a greater action. On the other hand, yes, at some areas we can find such a need and at such areas decent exemptions are available to ICAP members e.g. only two papers of ICAEW under the MOU even with the fact that we are only 5,000 and it is not a bigger potential source of revenues for ICAEW.

Now I come to the point that why did we give exemptions to the institutes which have not yet recognized us. Be sure the institutes which have not yet recognized us are the ones where we, so far, have not made any bigger effort. (Did any of you see any bigger effort by ICAP for getting exemptions from ACCA Global; just check out and you will find my words correct.) Significant reasons have been explained above. To the contrary we gave exemptions from the outset to institutes like CICA, ICAA, ICAEW because some of those institutes were in existence much earlier than ICAP¡¦s coming into existence and at that time we had a need of such people to join us. We give exemptions to attract and accommodate decent, qualified, and competent people who come back to their homeland and who are expected to bring in handy exposure of working in international markets and from whom people back at home do learn what is going on in cross border environments. So, this means a lot and if you look back the history of profession in Pak, even before ICAP's coming into existence, such foreign qualified and heavily experienced and competent people have played a vital role. Look at the senior people in all bigger firms during 40s, 50s, 60s and even 70s. It was certainly Pakistani economy's requirement to accept them and get benefit from them. So, this was out-rightly a thing other way round; i.e. no demand from those institutes but a recognition by us.

HOWEVER, this was not to and will never be aimed at to make the profession a FISH MARKET in Pak.

Time has proved that our giving exemptions to those institutes never resulted in inflow of stuff making us a fish market. Those were neither supposed to be FISH-MARKET stuff at that time nor they to-date turned out to be. This is a fact and one big difference when you compare various designations and continuity of exemptions to them. One can analyze any of such qualifications from the outset. Further, they have maintained the quality from ages and have never run behind a number game to loot the resources of people from around the globe. That's why they are continuing to be recognized as such.

As said earlier, we "had" almost no need, and strong voice for such a need, to get MRAs, due to our acceptability locally and in nearest foreign countries. However, quite recently, and after getting good exemptions from ICAEW, the ICAP has also started a dialogue with a couple of other such bodies keeping in view the demand that may emerge in coming days. One such example is CICA. We look-forward to take this process forward so that in coming days such arrangements are finalized before a substantial need arises for doing so.

Notwithstanding some of the facts mentioned above, I have been telling that exemptions are always a matter of policy and need. These keep on coming and leaving for many reasons and not merely for the quality of another designation. Had this been thought with the mindset of an immature student, ICAEW would have never given exemptions to Indian institute who does not even teach complete IFRSs and ISAs to its students.

Further, if some foreign element is supposed to ruin the worth of any product locally by producing incompetent and / or unwanted and undesired stuff, every country has a right and, practically speaking, exercise such right to monitor the condition and stabilize the local market situation. In generalized terms you would be seeing tariff protection, anti-dumping barriers everywhere. If you can understand; these all are meant for something. And that something is called A POLICY MATTER. I believe a very few would be able to understand it why it is called a policy matter. We have scholars here who know everything in absolute so, their self respect is not challenged by these words.

At the end I would say that we as members of ICAP are happy with what we have and what we plan to have; and I believe, being the stakeholders, ONLY we should be concerned with any of such situation. I wonder why our ACCA brothers are so concerned for ICAP. Why they don't bother to manage their condition and affairs. It is gravely weird to say that they did ACCA with a hope of getting exemptions from ICAP. If they need ICAP's membership, they should qualify whatever papers/exam are required and meet their needs.


...................................................


Last day I was in meeting with CFO of a renowned listed company in financial sector. He was discussing a few vacancies for professionals under him and asking if I have someone reliable to be referred to him. During discussion, he told me a thing which shocked me. He told that he has hired an ACCA affiliate for job at Rs. 10,000 per month.

I believe this is unfair and I advise ACCA affiliates to join trainings at some stipend instead of joining the jobs at such a low salary. Job with such a low salary is disgrace of the profession even if you are raw handed. At least training is training in its meaning and it will add value to working capacity, understanding and will polish them to the extent that they would be able to attract a better initial remuneration in jobs. I also requested that CFO to reconsider the remuneration being paid to that boy.

............................

I hope to see some sanity in upcoming responses.


Regards,

[usmansss]

KAMRAN, i read your sarcastic behaviour towards ACCA students , i dont knw how you find such an ample amount of time to think and write these stories any how it was a master peice, ICAP should recognized you as there ambasador and sent you all over the world so that it might be recognized with your baseless and useless justifcation and stories which you will be telling to accounting bodied of different countires ... you might have reached some where in your careear but that dosent mean you start acting joker !!!

[wrathofheaven1]

@Kamran
First of all, I have no idea how can someone even find this much time for writing something like this.

You seriously lack Professional behavior regarding other professional bodies, especially ACCA.

I mean seriously, what is wrong with you?